Good Powerhead Cainster?

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I have seen that Kenmore at Sears before. It is nice, but the hose is short. I reccommend getting a yellow Progressive canister off of eBay like mine. It has a terrific power nozzle, light in the telescopic wand and power nozzle, and the tools are just like the old Kenmore canisters from the 90s. The dusting brush is VERY soft and nice to use. It also have an electric mini turbo brush that is amazing.
 
rexaird...

I had similar results with the Vibra Groomer swap. Back before I sold my TriStars, I jumped on the band wagon after hearing how awesome and and perfect it was. I bought a "VGII" roller for one of them. I had the Interstate made nozzle. The first thing I noticed was that the bristle strips barely stuck out below the plate. It still swept ok but the beater nubs were so far up in the housing, they had ZERO effect, what does that leave you with?... A 2 row brush roll. Wondering if it was just a bent bottom plate causing it, I confirmed with a few others who did the same "OMG you gotta do it!" swap that they're brush strips stuck out far less than the factory one. Granted the brush strips were stiff enough to still do something, I found that the original genuine (not generic) 4 row setup seemed much more effective for my carpeting. The bristles were at proper length for that nozzle and still plenty aggressive.

This new VGIII retrofitting thing I've been hearing about may be the better way to go if one MUST participate in the conversion. I dont personally see how its going to be that much better than the genuine but it would be more effective than the VGII as the beater bar/nubs aren't effective when there that far up in the nozzle. Everyone will have different results some good and some bad. I wasn't enough impressed to recommend it to others.

Now with that said, any Vibra Groomer series brush roll either in an actual Eureka nozzle designed for it or a Eureka upright, those brush rolls do a very VERY good job! Especially with the direct air uprights.
 
Exactly, the bottom plate on the Tri-Star bottom plate sticks out further than the Eureka's so the beater bars can't even begin to touch the carpet. You get much better grooming and pickup with a 4 row than you do with a beater bar brush. I've even noticed on Sanitaire and Hoover uprights that machines with a 4 row brush pickup pet hair better than those with beater bars.

YOu might notice that even the original person (who shall remain nameless) who decided this was the way to go and everyone had to do it, eventually decided to put a 4 row VG3 in it. I still feel this won't get you anywhere, because the bristles still won't hardly stick out past the bottom plate. Put a brand new GENUINE Tri-Star brushroll and notice how far out the bristles stick. Longer bristles will dig into the carpet better and groom the carpet more.

Another important part of brushroll design is the bristle layout. Brusholls act as augers in the nozzle, large debris are taken in the direction of the twist in the brushroll. Brushrolls like the genuine wood Tri-Star brush auger the dirt to the center of the brush from both sides of the nozzle, making for better and faster pickup. The Eureka will push dirt away from the suction inlet on half of the brush.
 
With my limited knowledge of vacuums I do know I would take a old electrolux over any of the Chinese made pieces of plastic that are being made today. You can probably find a nice clean electrolux in good working order for much less than a new vacuum and it will probably last a lot longer. I heard you can use the Perfect vacuum Hepa bags in the old electroluxes, I am not sure if it is true hepa filtration.
 
The thing about the tristar is I used to have A interstate PN but I put a eureka PN on it and solved my problems with the bristles not sticking out far enough
 
Nathaniel, I would take Eurekaprince's suggestion & buy

But I wouldn't buy new. Instead, I would look at buying a used Kenmore Whispertone model from the '90's.

Back then, they were still using the Ametek double-stage motors that were being used in the Tri-Stars & Filter Queens. These motors will easily last 15-20 years on each set of carbon brushes, & have a lifespan of 30-40 years. You still see Kenmores from the early 80's coming into the repair shop still working using these same motors- now what does that tell ya?

Now, the motors in new Kenmore/Panasonics are single-stage Panasonic motors- they are just as powerful as the double-stage motors, both will pull 90 inches on a waterlift gauge. But they just don't hold up the way they used to. It's not uncommon to see a 3 or 4 yr old Kenmore/Panasonic with a blown motor, & a $150 bill for the cost of the motor alone, let alone the labor. Another common problem for the newer Kenmore/Panasonics is blown circuit boards inside the canister-yet another expensive problem to fix. The relay boxes on the older Kenmore/Panasonics are extremely reliable & rarely break.

The features are still unchanged- quick-release nozzle, off/floor/carpet powerswitch on the handle, swivel hose, etc. You won't be able to get one with a HEPA filter, but why would you want one when they aren't sealed?! The HEPA bags work good anyways for allergy sufferers, and are inexpensive- my local repair shop charges 3/$9.99 for their generic cloth HEPA bags. Paper bags are also very economically priced @ 10/$12.97 at Sears. They also have a very large useable bag capacity. These would be big factors if you are picking up lots of pet hair & going thru bags quickly.

The Powermate Jr small electric brush attachment works great & is a really big advantage to these models- makes stair cleaning/small space cleanup & pet hair a breeze! You can purchase one from any Panasonic dealer or Sears store for $50. It won't store onboard, however, but that problem is easily solved with a clip-on holder that attaches to the wand, about $20 from any Panasonic dealer. Another plus is the older models also come with dedicated dusting & upholstery tools, the new models come with combo tools which I personally find annoying. And of course the older tools are better quality. The floor brush is also well-designed, I personally feel one of the best designs on the market, & will do a great job on floors should you use a canister for floors.

The powerhead is also more reliable on the older models, too. Back in the 90s they were still making the powerheads with the 2 brush/1 beater bar configuration with the metal end caps that weren't prone to melting like the newer chevron brushrolls with plastic endcaps. The wheels on some of the newer powerbrushes are also problematic & can fall off & need replacing- this was never a problem with the older models. The V belts on the newer powerheads are just as reliable as the cog belts on the older powerheads, however, so that won't be an issue.

If you buy an older model, there are a couple of things to watch out for. DO NOT BUY A KENMORE WITH A FLOATING BAG CHANGE INDICATOR! These models look the same, BUT inside they have the single-stage motors that they were starting to use in the late 90s. Instead, look for one that has the bag change indicator light at the back- this is an indication that it is a model that has the double-stage motor. If you do buy a Kenmore from the 90s that has the single-stage motor & later decide to upgrade to the double-stage motor, you can buy a used white plastic motor-housing from a dealer's scrap pile, & use that with the new motor. Assuming you buy a model with the double-stage motor, it would also be advisable to buy a new set of carbon brushes & either install them yourself or have the dealer do it, as the carbon brushes in the motor will probably need to be changed in 2-3 years anyways- this will assure you of trouble-free cleaning for many years to come.

While you are at it, it would be also be wise to buy a spare Kenmore canister with the 3-prong plug in the canister, as these Kenmore/Panasonics did have a problem with the plastic around the caster wheel cracking. It should be fine if you take reasonable care, but it wouldn't hurt to have one on hand & you would be getting a spare motor, cordreel, etc.

Also, consider buying one of the older powerheads so you have a spare brushroll on hand with the metal endcaps- the older brushrolls are no longer available & you would have to replace with the chevron-style brush if the bristles wear out, plus you will have the spare motor, etc. Note too, that the older powerbrush will work with newer Kenmores that have the 2-piece wand with quick release, should you buy a newer Kenmore & later decide you don't like the newer powerbrush.

Whether you buy a newer or older Kenmore, of course be gentle on the hose & NEVER LEAVE THE HOSE ON THE WAND WHEN STORING IT! It will cause the vinyl to tear, so take it off the wand & let the handle rest on the ground.

Now, should you prefer to buy a new machine, I would STRONGLY suggest you buy the optional 5 year extended warranty for $150 thru Sears. It will pay for your motor replacement- and it WILL need replaced in the warranty period- and cover anything else wrong with it- so for the cost of replacing the motor alone you would get your moneys worth out of the warranty. Should you not like the combo tools, the older dusting brush & upholstery tools are available at Panasonic dealers & Sears stores, & you can always store them on a clip-on tool caddy on the wand. Of course, you can also use any generic 1 1/4 tools from any other vac too.

Be sure to check vac shops for good deals, or Ebay. You should easily be able to find a refurbished older model Kenmore for around $150-$200. Also check yard & garage sales too.

As far as the other suggestions here, I would not recommend them for your particular use. The Electrolux, Royal Powertank & Tristar/Miracle Mate designs wouldn't have very big useable bag capacity, especially with the Electrolux, & you would be changing bags much more with either of these machines. And their powerbrushes wouldn't pick up pet hair as well, either. You also wouldn't get the features of the Kenmore, either, such as the quick-release wands or powerswitch on the hose handle.

So, hope this helps a bit in making your choice!
 
I woud go for an older Compact-TriStar vacuum-the newer ones have the cheap Asian motors.The old machines had the Lamb-Ametech US motors.and the bag capacity on these is GREATER than you expect.I have packed quite a bit of stuff in my Compact-have packed it just as good as one of my filtrete bagged Meiles.I still prefer uprights for carpet-Kirby is my favorite-the Compact,Meile do the other bare floor and above floor jobs.Other alternative if you can find them used--Vortech Force(has larger bag than the Compacts-TriStar)Miracle Mate(Vertical bag-but closed top on the paper bag),Shottler engineering Patriots.
 
kirbylux77

THANK YOU for that information! It is extremely helpful! I was almost ready to buy a cheaper $140 machine!

But now I need to get a $200+ machine with a $150 warranty. So I'd much rather buy a a cheaper Tristar that I know will last even with smaller bags.
 
Well, if you do buy a Tri-Star......

Then at some point, you might want to consider upgrading to Eureka Express series powernozzle, as you probably won't like the Tri-Star nozzle on pet hair.

But like I said, you would still be best off buying an older model Kenmore Whispertone....you'll appreciate the beater bar powerbrush, cog belt, & you would get MUCH more useable bag capacity than the Tri-Star's.

Let us all know how you make out & post some pics when you buy one.
 
Key there Rob in Orillia...not far away!!!

How did you know that I had to replace the motor in my Kenmore 27210 Elegance/Progressive canister? LOL!!!!! I bought it in 2001 or 2002 methinks.....

I took such good care of that thing...replacing bags when half full, replacing pre-motor and post-motor filtres, opening the suction valve whenever the red "bag check" light would come on (usually when using the crevice tool). But one fine day, when I was using Kennie for some light dusting of books, all of a sudden I heard a "pop", the motor shut down and smoke started coming out of all the orifices! I let it cool off for 24 hours, but that did nothing - vacuum dead. I had not bought a service plan, and Sears wanted me to shlep out to some place in Etobicoke to bring it in for repairs (why don't they take repairs at the stores?). So I brought it into a local vac shop in Toronto, and indeed it cost me about $150 to put in a new Panasonic motor. BUT - the guy who did the repair was really nasty (did not like me playing with the new vacs on display in the shop), and for some reason, he did not put the vac back together so well and the pieces are not very well aligned. Because of this, my mom (who now owns Kennie), can no longer install a post-motor HEPA filtre because with one of those exhaust filters installed, the thing whines and whistles!!!!So her cleaning lady uses it without the exhaust filtre - I bought a supply of nice big Kenmore cloth Hepa bags, and we forego using a HEPA exhaust filtre. I figure without the exhaust filter, the replacement motor will stay cooler and live longer.

Now I know that I am one of many Kenmore owners who have had to replace a single-stage motor in a pn canister. Still, I find the vac to be a great performer, and would buy any of those new Kenmores that rated well by Consumer Reports - but I would also by the service plan to cover the inevitable burn out of the motor. Wonder which motor is in that red Panasonic that I recommended in a post further up?

Brian down in Toronto :-)
 
Makes me wonder if my 4 year old Progressive top of the line $500 smackers is two stage or the one? Suction I would say is just ok. Only on second bag, not my daily driver, kinda clunky.
 
I heard that newer Tri-stars used Eureka VG brush rolls, and I love those! But if they don't I'll look into a used Kenmore.

If anyone here has a used kenmore or tri-star they want to sell at a reasonable price, I'll consider it.
 
Just FYI, you actually can still get the brushrolls for the older Kenmore powerheads. Those have to be some of the best brushrolls around.
 
@suckolux: If your Kenmore was made after 1998, then it does have the single-stage motor, not the double-stage.

They first started using single-stage Ametek 5.7-inch motors in the mid-90's in their BOL or MOL canisters. These motors were VERY powerful- pulled about the same suction as their double-stage cousins; BUT to achieve it, they increased the 'resting' RPM that the motor runs at (this is when you are using the p/n or floor tool)- thus, putting more wear & tear on the armature & carbon brushes. It is RARE to see one of these single-stage Ametek motors make it past 10 years before dying. Then around 1997 or 1998, they started using Panasonic 5.7-inch motors in place of Ametek. When the first generation of Kenmore Whispertone's with HEPA filter came out, they started using a smaller diameter Ametek motor again, then they switched to Panasonic motors again (exact year I can't be certain- probably around 2005/2006). And just this year, I picked up a spare 'beater' 2009 Whispertone for parts (I have a 2001 model that I use for a 'regular' vac) and the motor was a Chinese motor- said "Sip Cinderson Motor Co, Ltd" on the motor; HOWEVER, this was a BOL model, so they may still be using Panasonic motors in the TOL canisters.

@powertank: Yes, you can get new brushrolls for the older Beater-Brush Kenmore p/n's. HOWEVER, they are not the original brushrolls with the beater & metal endcaps- they are the new-style Chevron brushroll with the plastic endcaps that we all know have been problematic. Thats why I suggested Nathaniel pick up a spare older p/n- because he would get the older brush, & plenty of spare parts he may need in the future- motor, nozzle neck, etc.

@eurekaprince Brian: If you maintain the HEPA filter by changing it yearly, that wouldn't have caused the motor to die prematurely by overheating. As a matter of fact, one REALLY disappointing thing about these Kenmores is that the HEPA is not sealed at all! Ever notice black dust surrounding the filter in the compartment?! Considering these canisters sell anywhere from $300-$650 CDN, thats something thats inexcuseable- especially when I can walk into my local vac shop & buy a new Riccar Pristine with a sealed HEPA filter, 100" waterlift suction power, swivel casters & wands/powerhead/tools that are just as nice as Kenmores all for only $699 CDN with a 7 year motor warranty!

My 2001 Kenmore Whispertone is very similar to your Kenmore Elegance, Brian- With Ametek motor, HEPA filter, hose, etc- But yours would have come with the newer-style p/n with wheels on the side, slightly different body style (Mine has the combo dusting/upholstery tool). I picked it up in 2007 to use as a 'regular' vacuum for $40 CDN from Value Village, so if the motor dies right now, it sure doesn't owe me anything!

As far as the Panasonic you recommended to Nataniel, I suspect it would use the Panasonic motor, not the Ametek or "Sip Cinderson" motor I was mentioning above. It is a lower-tier cousin to the vac-shop exclusive Performance Plus Platinum canister, so they would probably be smart enough not to cheep out on the motor.

And one thing you probably didn't know- aftermarket HEPA bags are available for the Kenmore HEPA bags in most vac shops. The ones I buy are 3/$9.95 at the local vac shop. They don't claim HEPA on them- instead they say 'high efficiency micro filter'- But they are cloth polypropylene bags & just as good as other HEPA bags for other vacs I own, such as my Kirbys. They probably just don't say HEPA to avoid legal problems. Sure beats paying 2/$16.97 at Sears.

Perhaps if you like, Brian, we could chat on the phone sometime, & next time I am in Toronto, have a mini-meet, as I do come down frequently. I'll email you privately.

Rob
 
My progressive has to be a 2006 or 2007, all the bells and whistles.I liked the longer cord, hose and dirty/ clean powerhead lights.
 
Brian, This is my 2001 Kenmore Whispertone.....

It's the exact same as the one in this Ebay listing, except mine is black- not blue, and it doesn't have the floating bag-change indicator near the hose, as this one has. Otherwise, same hose, wand, p/n, etc

kirbylux77++12-5-2010-20-26-12.jpg
 

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