Forever Vacuum Bags?

[luxlife]

Count yourself lucky if there's no dust left in the bag

Even my Miele Capricorn with the Poly bags still leaves residue in the chamber. I'm beginning to believe that vacuum cleaner filtration is a relative concept based on one dust containment scenario that may or may not better than the other, but I haven't scene one yet that is perfect. HEPA vacs/bags aren't supposed to make our homes cleaner or our air easier to breathe, they're just supposed to hold more of what they collect without leakage back into the air.

 

[eurekastar]

What is "cloth"?

Felt isn't a "woven" fabric. It's usually made of cotton or wool fibers that are PRESSED together and not woven. Yet felt is still considered a textile or cloth. Given that textiles are made from a variety of natural and artificial fibers and bonded together by a variety of methods, I think it would not be incorrect to refer to polypropylene bags as "cloth bags".

Also, I've decided to order one of the Forever Bags and try it for myself. I'd rather make a judgment regarding a product's usefulness and quality based on firsthand experience. I'll let you all know what I find. I want to thank Mark for starting this thread, because I've been curious about them for a long time.

 

[scvacuumguy]

Think about the reality of air filtration in a vacuum cleaner. Let's say one vacuums twice per week, and it takes maybe 30 minutes of continuous vacuum use to clean a normal sized home. The average person is going to be vacuuming 4-5 hours per month. Does filtration really matter- if you are only moving air through the machine for 4-5 hours per month?

 

[joshdonnell]

hey

and a vacuums job is to keep the home clean

 

[tolivac]

I am wondering if this retrofit cloth dump bag would be better than the Keeler Kirby unit that has the pleated filter and dump bin.remember those?If you wash the bag-would think you need two-one in the vacuum-the other being dumpted,washed and drying.Think I will stick to the Filtrete style bags.And will the smaller retrofit version hold more debris?and you will need to dump these after each use-otherwise smells and clogging.And note they don't make a Forever bag(at least not yet)for the "F" style Kirby Sentria.And how bout the "future" Kirby?

 

[twocvbloke]

Keeler Krap...

The keeler bagless thing is just a bunch of Eureka/Electrolux parts designed for negative-pressure vacuums glued onto Kirby hose-ends, it is highly inefficient and relies on those cheap and nasty cartridge filters that love to clog up, especially when air is forced through them under positive pressure, it isn't going to work as well as a proper bag setup (Shakeout or disposable) as the Kirby is made for a large surface area for filtration, not a tiny little filter...

As to the "What is cloth?" question, well, that's already been answered, Cloth is a sheet of woven fibres, either natural or man-made, Felt is just that, felt, it's pressed wool fibres made into a felt sheet with heat and pressure, you could say the polypropylene bags are a form of Felt, just made from a man-made plastic instead of animal fur...

Just so you know I live in a part of the UK where the cotton industry boomed, so I grew up learning a lot in school about making cotton thread, cloth weaving, felting, clothing manufacture, etc., so I'm pretty sure I know the difference between Felt and Cloth, and a Polypropylene bag is not a Cloth material, it is pretty much a felted, heat-bonded fibrous material, and is not made on a loom which would make it a cloth...

And yes, filtration matters if you suffer from allergies, you never know what is in the carpet that has been dragged in on your feet, or blown in through the doors, windows or ventilation, if your vac is picking up allergens and spitting them back out, then, I wouldn't consider that a decent vacuum cleaner, thankfully I don't suffer from allergies like some do (I do get minor irritation when working on dusty and dirty things or using my Kirbys with their shake-out bags), but the mother does, and I do have to be careful with how I look after my vacuums and what they put out from the bags...

Not to mention, I'd much prefer a bag that doesn't compromise the airflow of my vacs, less surface area for filtration means less airflow means less pickup, and less pickup means there's no point in vacuuming if you're leaving the dirt in the floor...

 

[tolivac]

I can agree on the pleated filters-they perform poorly in shop type vacuums-drywall cleanup is a hassle-you have to constantly clean the pleated filter of drywall plaster dust.Clogs them quickly.External filter wet-dry vacs are better.The Keeler attachment would be those that clogs after the user cleans each room.You are then forced to dump the dust cup and clean the filter-guess you would need a BAGGED canister cleaner to do that without inhaling the dust that clogs it.For Shop type vacuums you can get very large paper bags for them-far better than relying on the pleated filter-you use the bag and the pleated filter.then the vacuum gives clean air on the discharge.And Keeler promoting his gadget for pet owners-bet the pleated filter has to be replaced OFTEN or it will stink like a dead dog.--With the filter purchases-you have not saved-better to use the bags.So if the disposable bag smells-replace it.

 

[eurekastar]

Felt

By definition, felt is a "non-woven" CLOTH. Cloth is produced by weaving, knitting, crocheting, knotting, or pressing (e. g. felt) natural and/or artificial fibers together. My Kirby 4C bag has a felt bag. As far as I know, it is the only Kirby ever produced with that type of bag. I think most people would agree that it has a CLOTH bag, even though it wasn't made on a loom. Therefore, it's clear that not all CLOTH is produced on a loom by weaving fibers together. For that reason, polypropylene bags are CLOTH.

 

[mark40511]

Eureka.........You ordered one? Really? PLEASE let me know your honest opinion when you get it.

 

[swiveltop]

Mark

I started using my rainbow D4 SE ,this is my third one ,I sold the first two,I didn't really like these vacuums, but started using this one and after a week or so my alergies have diminished greatly,I can now breath fron both sides of my nose

 

[jfalberti]

I had a Panasonic

commercial Jet-Flo vacuum that had a bag similar to the Forever bag in the bag chamber. It seemed to work well for that application.

 

[eurekastar]

@ Mark

I did order one. I'll let you know how I like it when it arrives!

 

[luxg]

That will be great Bill, I am very interested in hearing what you think of them as well.

Terry

 

[pr-21]

Reminds me of

I had one and it looks like the inside of a Kirby G4 bag. I bought it to fit the style c electrolux bag. I never used it but did tear it apart to use the gasket inside of the bag opening for something else. It detached from the collar with a pretty simple pull......


Bud

 

[djtaylor]

Good idea

Oreck had a washable bag just like the Forever Bags. I never used one, but it seemed OK. I have come to prefer the cloth-like white HEPA disposable bags, but would be willing to try one. I have emailed the store that sells them and asked if they will be making one to fit Fairfax. That is the machine I'd like to try the Forever Bag in. The Fairfax has really strong air flow, I'd use the Fairfax more often if it were so blasted loud.
Justin

 

[eurekastar]

Mine finally came in. I posted about it in the off-topic category.

 

[gmerkt]

I've read through the numerous posts above on this topic.

I'm afraid I just don't get the idea of the "forever bag." Isn't it a step backward, installing a shake-out bag back into a machine intended to have the convenience of a disposable bag? Wasn't the idea of disposable bags to eliminate the mess of emptying a cloth capture bag, having dust flying around, etc? Wow, do I remember sticking my hand up inside my mother's Kirby 511 to get wads of hair out.

I know the idea of buying this bag one time and avoiding the purchase of multiple paper/poly bags is appealing. But then again, to me it's like buying a new car and specifying a manual transmission. I know some people buy them, but I can't imagine why.

If you don't like buying bags, you could get one of the new bagless plasti-vacs. Those are easier to dump and clean out than any cloth bag. And some of them have the added entertainment value of allowing you to watch the crap whirl around in the container while the machine is running.

You're not going to put that "forever bag" in the washing machine with your wife's unmentionables are you?? I'm reluctant to introduce quantities of floor dirt into my washing machine unnecessarily. I guess you could run the forever bag by itself in the washing machine, using up as much water and laundry powder as a larger load warrants; you still might wind up with a scum line on the inside of the drum from the vacuum dirt.

Don't take any of what I've said too seriously; some of it is just in fun.

 

[twocvbloke]

"it's like buying a new car and specifying a manual

But a Manual transmission's soooooo much more efficient at getting engine power to the wheels compared to an auto (less fuel used, more savings in the pocket, you just have to think a little more while driving, scary thought, I know!!)....

 

[gmerkt]

Serious thread deviation

That's pretty conventional wisdom about manual trans. vs. automatics, but on modern cars the difference in fuel economy has gotten narrow. Modern automatic transmissions have lock-up torque converters and overdrive features absent on older models. Recent Consumer Reports tests show a difference of about 2-3 mpg on cars that typically get 30 mpg. Yes, still a savings of about 10% - in theory. There's always the issue of driver technique, and many drivers of manual transmissions tend to over-rev the gear which defeats fuel savings. Here in the US, the majority of the population lives in the cities or suburbs, which are becoming more and more crowded as time goes by, so with a manual trans, more shifting and clutch action. I live in an area with lots of hills, so starting out on a hill with a manual can be a pain with lots of clutch slipping (unless you drive an old Studebaker with a "Hill-Holder"). Then there's the issue of re-sale. Not as many people want a manual shift.

Having said all that, some people just like to go through the gears but I'm not one of them. The last manual shift I owned was a '40 Ford (for 34 years) with a three speed on the column. People thought it was quaint but I hated driving it. I've driven all sorts of newer vehicles with 4 speed manual trans. as well. I've told my wife, "The automotive engineers went to a lot of time and trouble to design an automatic transmission to make our lives easier." I'm taking advantage of it.

 

[gmerkt]

Oh, I forgot to mention...

One of the Kirbys I bought cheaply once had a home-made "forever bag" on it. I think it was a G6 (oops, someone will correct me and say is was a "G-Six"). The previous owners were too doggoned cheap to buy a paper Kirby bag, so they tied a pillow case around the outlet tube on the riser. Small particle filtration? Zilch. Pretty good at filtering out large balls of cat hair, though.