Fantom Fury overheating very quickly

[niclonnic]

My 12 amp Fantom Fury has given me nothing but problems lately, specifically motor issues.

It all started back in April of this year. The motor died after 2 weeks of using the Fury as my daily driver. Then in July, I sent the motor to electroluxxx here on Vacuumland (who sold me this vacuum) so he could repair it. After he found that the motor was running really good, he sent it back to me. He ran that motor, which was hooked up directly to electricity, for an hour before sending it to me.

So I received the motor, and after having a FaceTime call with Mike, who showed me how to install the motor, I tried using my Fantom again. It just turned off in the middle of cleaning after only a few minutes! So I touched the motor housing, and it was hot.

I took the Fury back apart, and got on FaceTime with Mike again. He instructed me to hold the motor against the machine housing, plug in the vacuum and turn it on. I did so, and the motor was arcing! Sparks were shooting out of the commutator. No wonder the vacuum was overheating so quickly!

As a solution, Mike offered to send me a used motor from a Fury that he had, which he used for a couple of years and apparently always ran great. I got it today, and installed it. I then tried running my Fantom around the house, and the motor's making a weird noise. It sounds like the bearings are on their way out, even though Mike greased them and they are in decent shape. He was aware of how noisy they were. The ugly thing is, this motor is now doing the exact same thing that the other one did! It's overheating and cutting out after only 2 minutes of use. And he ran it for over an hour with no issues.

This is getting ridiculous. While I certainly enjoy being reunited with my childhood vacuum cleaner, I didn't expect it to have this many issues because of a stupid motor. What should I do? Did I connect the wires to the wrong terminals?

Below is a video of the old motor arcing. Below the video are a couple pics of the "new" motor.

 

[bvac6]

I may be onto something when I think it sounds like the commutator could use refinishing. Much like a brake rotor I believe the vernacular for it is turning. If you think about it the motor itself is 20-odd years old with probably carbons that are just as old. I bet turning the commutator with a commutator stone and seating some fresh carbons on it would probably buy it a new lease on life.

 

[electroluxxxx]

The motor was reseated with a stone

 

[niclonnic]

Solutions?

One suggestion to fix the motor is to have electroluxxxx send me an armature stone so I can reseat the motor. That's something I have never done before. He said both of my motors were PERFECT. Both of us don't get why my machine is overheating so quickly!

The second thing I could do is take my Fury to a vacuum store. I found a couple that are in Puyallup, WA, which are 15-20 minutes away from where I live. Would that be a good option?

I just took a video of my second motor arcing.

 

[bvac6]

The vac store may only offer used motors unless suitable replacements are being made these days. Depending on how full service they are they might be able to rebuild the motor, i.e new windings, bearings, etc. I had that done for a Eureka Emperor, it was the only option to get it running since the motor was so rare. It's expensive that option but worth it if you want to keep it. I have refinished commentators myself and it has solved that exact same issue with excessive arcing.

 

[niclonnic]

Let me think about this...

First of all, it has been my dream for a long time to have another Fantom Fury. This year, that dream finally came true...for a short time. After the motor died 2 weeks after getting it, I was just distraught. Considering that the Fantom, being an early dual cyclonic vacuum, passed a lot of dust through the motor. And I've also realized how underpowered it really is, because of how weak the suction through the hose is. But it does a very good job of cleaning carpets! I think it's the brush roll.

The only reason I wanted a Fury was for sentimentality reasons. I thought my original 10 amp Fantom Fury was the coolest vacuum EVER. Over the years, deep down inside, there was a part of me that wanted a Fantom Fury; I knew it was out there. Finally, in late October of 2017, on the week of Halloween, I gathered up the courage to post a "wanted" thread in the Super Market forum for a 10 amp Fantom Fury. I was contacted by FantomTechGuy, who offered to look for a Fury for me, refurbish it thoroughly and sell it to me for $150. A few months later, he had not come up with a Fury yet! He apologized, and I said that I don't mind waiting longer for a Fury, assuming that they are hard to find in his area.

Right after I made that post, I received an email from electroluxxxx. He said that he had access to a few green Fantom Fury vacuums and that he would be more than happy to refurbish one for me for $120. I took his offer on that, and after an exchange of emails, he gave me his phone number so I could text him for better response. Mike started texting me about updates on my Fantom Fury, and finally, in March, he went through the whole machine, cleaning and sanitizing it, and even got ahold of a brand new motor! Then he sent it off via regular mail, and on St. Patrick's Day, I was finally reunited with my childhood vacuum! And...now I'm feeling buyer's remorse after the motor failure.

I really hate to say this, but I might just give up on using this Fury. I probably won't take another chance at a Fantom after having so many problems with my Fury, all because of the motor. Even if one were to pop up at a Goodwill, I would just pass it up. My Fury might go into the garage to be used as a parts machine. Or I might put it up for sale on eBay. Very frustrating!

I'm not bashing Fantom, I'm just frustrated is all. Old vacuum cleaners... I think they're more trouble than they're worth! Especially when the company went bankrupt nearly 17 years ago.

 

[huskyvacs]

Not all old vacuums are unreliable, but Fantom vacuums (especially the Thunder) were always known to be lemons, which is why you rarely see them anymore as pretty much all of them wound up at the city dump by the millenium. They became collectible because of how rare they are, but it doesn't change that their design was poor and a lot of what you're experiencing now is what many Fantom owners went through in the late 90's, although those people had warranties and got them rebuilt for free at the time so they stayed around longer.

It's not to say a vacuum shop won't repair it, you just have to find the right ones that deal with vintage vacuums and won't try to get you to toss it in the bin for a Sebo or Miele. lol BVac6 is right, Fantom parts are not easy to come by and so seldom people have these vacuums that they never sell the parts so they have no reason to hang onto them. You can always eMail local shops and explain your problem to them and see if they can help you out, or agree for an in-person visit to look it over. I'm sure they wouldn't charge you for an examination fee just to look at it and give their advice as to what might be wrong, if they did it would probably be minimal.

I'm curious as to maybe some other part of your vacuum is overloading the motor, wrong motor voltage maybe? Or maybe its the brushroll as you said. I'd say just hang onto it as a decoration for now, maybe if you want to pursue vacuum repair down the road, you can always revisit it and have another go at it. Sometimes it helps to take a break from frustrating things for a few months, years, and come back to it with a fresh set of eyes and a fresh brain and maybe you might get the problem nailed. Good luck!

 

[niclonnic]

A possible solution

I was texting electroluxxxx today, and he suggested that I run the vacuum without the bin and HEPA filter, and see how long it went. It still cut out after two minutes. The motor was still arcing, and it tripped the reset button on the back of the machine. It still gave off a terrible electrical smell.

So Mike is going to have me grab some really fine sandpaper and teach me how to clean the armature. He's going to have me polish the commutator with the sandpaper. Problem is, I'm not sure if I have this kind of sandpaper. I need to take a look in my garage; if I can't find any, I'll have to buy some, which is cheap.

I also wanted to add that the air quality over here in Washington state is bad, as thick wildfire ash is spreading. I have to stay indoors as much as possible. In addition, I found out that I shouldn't run a vacuum cleaner when the air quality is this bad, as it'll kick up particulate matter and make the unhealthy air even worse. So I need to avoid vacuuming for up to a week while the smoke clears.

 

[madman]

You wanna hear a silly question? Is the motor spinning freely with it installed?

With the motor as fully installed as possible, rotate it by hand, preferrably at the fan end. It should spin totally freely. I'm thinking like a mechanic, here. When 2 otherwise good parts fail immediately after installing, you're left with only 2 options. A, the rest of the machine is causing them to fail, or B, the person installing it is doing something wrong.

I don't mean it as an insult, those are literally the only two options. I don't see that anyone has yet asked if it spins freely. You might be thinking, well yeah duh, of course it spins freely if dude repaired the motor. But that's uninstalled. It's entirely possible that, while installed, the vac casing is putting pressure on the fan or twisting the motor so it won't spin freely. That would explain the arcing (motor under undue stress will arc) and the overheating.

At this point I should mention that some things need to be installed with this in mind, and it may be that it is getting cocked during installation.

You could try removing the motor entirely and run it on the bench for a few minutes and see if it misbehaves, if you haven't already.

 

[electroluxxxx]

@madman

This motor when installed, freely spins just fine as there is absolutely nothing that would be in the way causing it to not spin freely. What’s odd is that this machine has been through 2 motors one of which was brand new old stock. The other motor was torn completely apart, cleaned, bearings greased, and commutator cleaned. Both motors have been run on a bench for more than an hour and performed flawlessly before being sent to nick in Washington. I suggested that there may be a clog and even had nick take the machine apart in spots where a clog would be present to which he found nothing. At this point I’m going to have him clean the commutator before running it anymore with some extremely fine grit sandpaper and run the machine while open for a bit allowing it to not have any resistance. The second motor I sent was used by me in my old fury for a couple of years and that I know for sure had no issues because I even used it about 6 mos ago when I reacquired the machine. So at this point I’m kind of stumped.

 

[kirbysthebest]

A clog would be my thought too. Other thought is that the Fantom was not well know for durability.

 

[electroluxxxx]

Harley

They were pretty durable, and the motors pretty reliable as I haven’t come across many with bad motors. This one just has my mind completely boggled

 

[niclonnic]

Same here

My mind is completely boggled as well. I hate to say this, but I might just have to ditch my Fury. I could sell it on eBay to make back the money I spent. Preferably locally, as I don't want to deal with shipping such a large item.

Also, I'm not really sure what to do with the other, new old stock motor that I have.

 

[suckolux]

Just spitballing here mind you, any chance that there is low voltage at the motor? Or damage anywhere in the cord, switch causing low power? Should get hot there I know, but I am scratching my head too

 

[niclonnic]

I don't know...

I texted Mike about this, and he told me that I need to put a multimeter on the motor. I do have a digital one.

He said that if I do ditch the vacuum, he would happily send me the money to ship the other motor back to him.

I'm still at odds with myself over whether I should keep or sell the vacuum for parts.

 

[madman]

I like how I was just totally dismissed, based on nothing but conjecture. From what I'm understanding, Electroluxx did not install the motor, so how does he know if it's installed properly or binding/not binding? Am I mistaken?

I'm just trying to help here, everyone in this is scratching their heads, and I'm offering a very real possibility.

 

[man114]

Unless the plastic housing of the machine is warped badly, at which case you’d likely have trouble getting the motor in, I don’t think it would be possible to put enough pressure on the motor housing to do damage to it. The motor just kind of rests inside like a clamshell snug but not overly so. These tend to pass some dust through the motor so if I use one I periodically take the motor out and clean the fan vanes with a pipe cleaner.

 

[madman]

It has a fan housing though, a flimsy piece of sheet metal that could easily bend. You might say but you'd hear it rubbing, well usually, not always. It would be a stretch, but both motors could have been very slightly damaged in transit.

All I'm saying is, I'm not hearing a better idea, and until somebody actually puts hands on the fan blade, I shouldn't be so carelessly dismissed.

Taking the motor out and running it on the bench might be the best next step, whether I'm right or wrong. If it runs well for a while, then the motor is ok.

 

[vacuumdevil]

Just to clarify I would not recommend taking this to a vacuum store unless there is a known collector working there. Parts have been discontinued so long most will have purge them out of their inventory. Unfortunately Fhantom vacuums made just like dirt devils they had a short expected lifespan. Maybe @fhantomTechguy is hoarding the parts you need?