Europe to cut power of vacuum cleaners to save energy

[rolls_rapide]

"and then no-one else will be able to copy it"

Hmmm, I don't think that will be the case for much longer. The DDM was mentioned about ten years ago, and the first versions made it into the Dyson DC06 robotic machine (apparently it had a switched reluctance motor), and latterly the Airblade hand dryer. The MkII DDM is in the current handhelds.

And in 2004-ish, Dyson had a press release about a vacuum cleaner with DDM, and the processor which monitored the motor had spare capacity to allow motor characteristic data to warbled down the phoneline to Dyson HQ.

 

[vintagerepairer]

As a genuine request for some information, what advantage would the DDM be in a mains powered cleaner?

 

[sebo_fan]

Well if you want to call my comparisons to larger appliance a variable, so be it. I just don't agree that such an issue should be made about vacuum cleaners when the larger appliances that have a higher wattage and are used daily should be overlooked when their energy promotions don't really make sense.


 


My moan is the fact that you're still using up a heck of a lot of power just to activate a large appliance - regardless of the promise of energy ratings - and these energy ratings have provided a source of much debate with most buyers realising that the energy ratings don't really make much sense when the total watts to run an appliance is discovered - that is why, compared to vacuum cleaners and general floorcare appliances, the mere mention of total power watts can be harder to find on large appliances, no matter how much of an energy rating it actually has.  One could therefore say that the energy rating system is therefore flawed - exactly playing to the marketing strings that air watts info on vacuum cleaners provide.


 


One example that cropped up with me is on my Bosch dishwasher. It comes with a supposedly "eco" tag, and granted it uses up to 14 litres of water compared to a general 16 litres on other rivals,but here's what I found when it came to actual performance:


 


<span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">"<span style="font-size: small;">...<span style="line-height: 19px; font-weight: normal;">If if you want the quickest wash setting you'll have to select the 33-minute "Quick Wash" function out of the three remaining programs and not all kinds of food ware get cleaned properly. For a start, plastics don't get a chance to dry despite the low energy "Eco-saving" 45 °C temperature. Dishes and cutlery come out touch dry but cookware such as Teflon non-stick pans are damp to the touch and I was surprised to find on some pans, grease had not been cleaned off properly. Glassware on the quick programme however, comes out glinting and clear, and apart from grease, other food stains vanish, leaving cutlery and dishes with a sparkling and clean finish. Aside from the 33-minute Quick Wash function, the latter programs are disappointing in their time duration and strangely less-thought out - for example: </span></span></span>


<span style="line-height: 16px; font-weight: normal; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;">
"Normal 65 °C," lasts a total of 2 hr, 15 minutes, or 2 hr and 5 minutes with the half load additional program selected. 

"Economy 50 °C," takes a shockingly long 3 hr and 34 minutes or 2 hours 34 minutes with the half load additional program selected. Brands these days argue that because the longer a lower temperature wash takes these days, the appliance saves the energy for a longer wash. But if it takes that long on an Eco program, the machine's main wattage is left on for longer. How can that be economical to run>?</span>


<span style="line-height: 16px; font-weight: normal; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;">
"Pre-Rinse" can take up to 15 minutes alone with no option for half load facility. 

"Quick Wash," takes 33 minutes with no option for a half load facility.</span>


 

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well I would say then that in simple terms, the only two factors which can ever be fully considered when painting an overall picture of electricity consumption is the wattage drawn and the time it is drawn for. Both are variable, but when it comes down to it, that is the bottom line. I totally agree that sometimes a saving is not a saving if a particular job is not done to complete satisfaction, such as the excellent dishwasher example Sebo-fan refers to. But again, this comes down not to a reduction in wattages, but in time; in this instance the overall amount of time the heater is on for is reduced, because there is less water to heat. As stated, this can be a false economy, as the results are poor. I expect they may be appealing to some users and not others; after all, satisfaction is only a matter of opinion.

 

[rolls_rapide]

DDM

The Dyson Digital Motor is supposed to have the best 'power to weight' ratio of any motor. It spins at 100,000 odd revolutions per minute, much faster than brush motors. The fan impeller, curved in three dimensions, is composed of PEEK composite plastic; anything less flies apart.

So supposedly, there should be powerful suction from a compact, lightweight motor. A motor which is supposed to last much longer than the usual brush motors.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Hello Rolls. Thanks for explaining that. I do wonder if the advantages of the DDM are better suited to battery-powered cleaning, in effect?

 

[rolls_rapide]

I don't think so, although the suction generated is much better than other handhelds. Apparently the battery life is pretty woeful. I had heard that the Dyson DC06 robotic machine only lasted about 10 minutes on a charge. And the handhelds with the DDM have a similarly short duration of use.

The Airblade hand dryers have mains motors fitted. The Japanese Dyson DC12 had a DDM in the top-range model. And one of the American Dyson cylinders had it too.

When Argos touted the DC11 cylinder, there were photos of DDM equipped models with remote power control on the hose handle. These never made it to the shelves. Only the conventional basic yellow model, and a HEPA model - both with conventional motors -were sold. I would like to know what exactly happened there. Did Argos goof, or did Dyson have a '12th hour' product rethink?

 

[vintagerepairer]

I think it will have been Dyson at fault there. Argos produce their catalogues months in advance. Dyson probably pulled out that model. Did I dream it, or was there not talk a good deal of years ago about a Dyson cylinder cleaner which had a diagnosis facility in the wheel and the user was expected to put the telephone next to the wheel to allow the message to be sent to the Dyson HQ?

 

[rolls_rapide]

See reply #99.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Hello Rolls. Great minds, I had totally missed your message about that, sorry. I can't believe I mentioned this just hours after you did, without realising you had done so already. So what did become of it? Did advances in internet and mobile telephones and such make this 'technology' redundant? Or was it just a feature too far?

 

[sebo_fan]

Having just seen the Comet.co.uk site earlier, the only upright listed as having 650 watts is the Dyson DC24. Pity the bin capacity is 0.85 litres though.

 

[rolls_rapide]

I think the technology did work, but as usual, the UK didn't get it - it probably was too expensive for Joe Public.

I'm not entirely sure that the Japan and the US models had that communication feature. I can't be sure, they might have - but then again maybe I dreamt it.

Maybe the whole press release thing was an exercise in spin, to drum up interest and gauge response.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Thank you Rolls. I think one has to draw a line under what is and what isn't worth it. A vacuum cleaner which could diagnose it's own motor fault is really a bit much, I mean the last thing on the mind of a consumer buying an expensive new cleaner is how easy it will be to tell the manufacturer what is wrong with it when it breaks down. I think that sometimes (though possibly rarely) even James Dyson can see some things are just too OTT.

 

[gsheen]

Dishwashers

Sebo fan , I agree with you, we reverted back to our old indesit dishwasher , I hate the electroic settings on the new ones, as if its not programmed in you can't do it.


 


I like our old indeset because you can manually move the timer along and do your own fast wash. PS I fitted a thermostat control to the element, That way I choose the heat setting myself. 


 


Personally I think they should go after washing machines dryers and dishwashers before vacuum cleaners, Think of it how long does your dryer run in a week ? 


 


To end it off all I can say Is I am sure glad i don't stay in the UK or Europe, I can't handle the nanny state 

 

[vintagerepairer]

Gary, If you lived here you would realise we are so far from being a nanny-state that words cannot describe the distance. The country is in a mess and people are generally doing what the hell they like. There have been massive cuts to our Police force, the NHS is going the same way, the idea that one does not have to work should one choose not to is rife, goodness knows where it will all end. If you think that your every day man on street is under the thumb of the law or the government, you can think again. In one sense, we've never had it so good when it comes to doing as one would please to.

So there may of course be suggestion that appliances and cars and such need to be more efficient, but most of it is all talk. As I said earlier, refrigeration has gone through major changes to the efficiency, but it has rarely being noted in the press. Washing machines have long been the target of energy consumption campaigns, with a huge push towards washing at lower temperatures. Washing powder companies have been on that band-wagon for a good deal of years. The problem is, as a nation it has been many years since our children were taught how to go through adult life responsibly, switching off anything which one is not using, and how to operate appliances efficiently. Not withstanding appliances like vacuum cleaners which often guzzle electricity from the word go, most energy consumption is not due to the power an appliance draws, but the way it is used and the amount of time it is on for and how often it is used.

 

[gsheen]

Not law enforcement but rather heath and safety

One of my best friends is a product engineer, He is British by birth and has spent along time between the UK and USA working for various lawn appliance company's He now resides here in SA .


 


We were taliking about producs and saftey and he came with this slightly exaggerated but effective analogy. 


 


You stick your hands under the lawnmower while its running and to clear a blokage and chop off your fingers


 


USA you would go to court , sue the pants off the manufacturer for not having a Saflty lable on the lawnmower stating not to stick your hands under the lawn mower. Retire from your winnings. 


 


UK 


Take them to court sue the pants off them becaus helth and saftly let the manufacturermake such a dangouras device , health and safty would imediatly make a law stating that lawn mowers were to dangourous for your avarage consumer and could only be bought and operated  by professionally traind garden personal. 


 


SA 


Go to court were the Judge would stand up get off his bench and smack you across the head for been such a idiot.


 


This is not meant to offend anyone, It was a funny analogy put to me by a friend who has spent most of his life designing lawn appliances 

 

[uksausage]

my bit

im no eco warrior at all i leave lights on all the time we leave the tv onin the lounge and the radio in the kitchen when we go out 4 ceiling fans running all the time (even in winter) i run 2 washing machines daily the animals machine only does boil washes and thats an uneco 15 year old zanussi my dryer gets used everyday as does the dishwasher i drink so much coffee during the day the kettle and the coffee machine only rest at night we both shower twice a day and i vacuum at least 3 times a day the main vacuum of the day usually takes around an hour as i have 6 cats and a dog that shed constantly (its a never ending battle in my house) i never use quick wash or 30 deg on the washing machine only 50,60 and 90 and my dishwasher only ever goes on at 70 deg after using all that power my vacuum i use daily is a 410 watt hoover turbo 1 ive tried all the others including a few 2400 watt machines and none seem to cope as well these new high powered machines need so much power because they have to draw the air through all these thick filters and bags i am quite asthmatic and the new machines with high power motors and so called hepa filters all make me sneeze and wheeze the old hoover turbo with cheap immitation bags doesnt affect me at all, i can normally tell how much power my appliances are pulling because i have one of those stupid key meters and i normally use about £30 a week compared to some i know who manage on £10 luckily my vacuum doesnt pull that much if the eu go ahead with this lower power thing it might not be such a bad thing everyone has their own opinions and ideas about appliances (bored now not gonna put anymore lol)

 

[uksausage]

one more

just another of my low power vacuum lol

 

[sebo_fan]

Inadvertently then, clearly other members are using low watt run vacuum cleaners - but apart from the Dyson DC24 which is currently on sale that uses a 650 watt motor, it must be a trying time for those who want to buy a brand new low power vacuum cleaner. Back in the day we all know that high power was used as a promotional selling point - the Hoover TP3 is an example in point - whereas previous classic lines had up to 575 watts, or less than 700 in the Hoover UK upright range, suddenly the "new" rating of 1000 watts was the next best thing to have. My point is, it doesn't matter how much power a vacuum cleaner has in terms of its USP, but back in the day, even 1000 watts was too high compared to what Hoover, Electrolux and others were previously producing in the upright range. The promise then of greater power with an 1000 watt motor could have been considered a waste on power - but back then as buyers we weren't conditioned to think about eco-motors and running costs.


 


Is it perhaps then, a little too late for brands to be given a law that stipulates low wattage, not just for vacuums alone but for the entire white appliance industry? I haven't even touched on toasters yet !


 


 


 


 

 

[vintagerepairer]

Sebo-fan, I keep coming back to the same point, that in some instances high wattage means high energy consumption as the appliance is running for the duration of the job in hand -like a vacuum cleaner or a light bulb- whereas in other instances high-wattage means lower energy consumption because the higher wattage allows the end result to be achieved far more quickly, such as a powerful kettle which can heat a measure of water to boiling point (100 degrees) much more quickly that a slower kettle.

Gary, I am not the least bit offended by what you wrote, but I didn't laugh about it either as for me it is neither amusing or in any way factually accurate. We do have a lot of talk of Health and Safety, most of which could be attributed to both a genuine need for a safer lifestyle and also because more and more people are attempting to sue for damages. The biggest problem we are faced with is the continual H&S myths and stories which, thanks to text messaging and email, keep coming round and round again and again. A lot of it has little truth behind it, but people who have very little going on between the ears chose to believe it and tar all H&S issues with the same ill-informed brush. If we really were a nation who fussed so much about H&S then that poor woman in the city of London who was crushed to death last week by a window frame which had been removed and propped up in an area where she happened to be walking past.

We also have a whole arsenal of stupid people here who think it is entirely appropriate to make a rule to suit themselves and then say "it's because of Health and Safety". It's become one of the UK's stock-answers for people who are not especially clever and can think of nothing else to say when challenged. "It's data protection" is another one which trips off the tongue so very easily.

If you think also that we are fortunate to have effective laws that prevent certain activities being carried out by none-qualified personnel, you are again giving us undeserved credit. We have laws, we have regulations, but we also have a good deal of people who are only too happy to carry out work which they are not supposed to do, and it is almost impossible to check on who is doing what. Our shops are full of products which anyone can buy, even though a law or regulation prevents the purchaser from actually installing that product. It doesn't stop them doing it.

If I had the choice of living in a well-run country which was also a 'nanny state' then I would; it would be a small price to pay, because at the moment the not so Great Britain is on it's rear end.