Europe to cut power of vacuum cleaners to save energy

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sebofan, sorry, I didn't make my point clear. The idea of the 3kw kettle is that it gets where it needs to be in the shortest amount of time. The time difference taken to boil a measure of water between it and a standard kettle should not be proportionate, that is to say (and this is just an example using round figures) that if a pint of water took 2 minutes to boil in a 2KW standard kettle, it would not neccesarily mean that a 3KW rapid boil kettle would take 1.5 minutes to do the job (which, if my maths is correct and it may not be, is the pro-rata time between the two kettles). No, the idea is that it should take, say, 1 minute, therefore using more power whilst on, but doing the job so much faster that it uses less electrictiy overall.
 
Sebofan, one other thing I must suggest, boiling water has only one temperature, for domestic or commercial applications. The reference made was about a hotter element to heat the water more quickly. I am not sure whether the element is actually 'hotter' per se, or whether it gets hotter faster and thus boils water more quickly.
 
Of course, if brands actually stopped putting silly little "go faster" watt numerical decals on their actual products, the EU could just give the brands concerned a rest. But as Benny did point out earlier, we have always been conditioned to obtain a higher power, much faster, quicker kind of a lifestyle, promising that life would be easier, or better, massaged through the idea of going premium. I don't think it can be blamed entirely on vacuum cleaners, but more to the point, the automobile trade where the word "Deluxe" has always been offered as a higher purchase upgrade on optional mods and features, to the present day equivalents of dressing up car models with sporty trim but avoiding the expensive engine options.


 


Benny - Ive done my own tests compared to using a 2.2 kw 1.7 litre directly against a 3.0 kw 1.7 kettle - there really isn't much of a difference in time - with the 2.2kw, it takes about 2.4 minutes and 1.5 minutes with a 3.0kw. I don't mind either wattage, but I'm far more concerned if the kettle in question has a concealed, flat base element where the kettle's interior can be cleaned out compared to a supermarket cheapy, where most models have a bare element - useless if you live in a hard water/limescale area. 


 


End of the day though, yes there is a fair justification for owning a vintage vacuum cleaner where lower watts are concerned, but I don't think most members see their vintage collections for that reason alone. I know I never considered my Hoover Junior U1104 to have eco-saving low wattage, and was more concerned about its lack of suck from the tool kit as opposed to its obviously better, instant contact to the floor from its beater bar roller brush. But therein offers the same point I made in my first paragraph to this post - Hoover offered the tool kit as an optional extra and for some Junior models, standard kit - again as consumers we were offered something that supposedly made the machine better - but in my experience, it really made no sense at all.


 
 
Ryan, you did not read what I said correctly, I will quote it for you to re-read:

"heating element to a hotter temperature and thus to boil water faster"
 
That isn't what you are trying to say though, Jamie. You are actually inferring that the greater wattage a kettle has, the hotter the temperature of the water will get to. Both Benny and I point out that temperatures of hot water in kettles have a fixed temperature fit for consumption and/or general use. The higher wattage doesn't heat the water to a hotter temperature = it just aids the boiling process with more speed - same as a vacuum cleaner with a higher suction motor built to cope with sucking out dust more quickly.


 


I'd also like to point out one little issue that seems to be so easily forgotten. You moan 2100 watts is far too high for a current vacuum cleaner compared to lower watts, yet don't take into consideration that its a cylinder vacuum - but rewind back to 1990 when Hoover's flagship Turbomaster Total System U5096 upright sporting 575 watts compared to the TOL Sensotronic Audio System 300 that had 1200 watts on the machine and a further 300 watts for the electro brush alone - that tops 1500 watts overall with each use. Thus, that's more than double the output of the upright vacuum. Proof that back in the 1990s Hoover cylinder vacuums had too much high power going on, but in reality, it was far easier to use a cylinder vacuum (like it is now) with a longer hose than depending solely on an upright's shorter hose, or even with extended hoses attached, far more compact and safer going with a cylinder vacuum. 


 
 
No, I AM NOT Ryan, I am inferring that the hotter the element gets the quicker the water will reach boiling point.

I thought that was blatantly obvious, was it not ?
 
Here we go again - do you remember the last time you got a sentence wrong? Can you read it slowly so that you actually understand what you said the first time? "The only WAY to get a hotter temperature and thus to boil water faster," are two very different points and scienfically can't be twinned together in one sentence to say what you mean.


 


ALL electric kettles have a FIXED Temperature by law!!!! It doesn't matter what element it has in place - higher elements with higher wattages just boil the water faster than the standard 2.2 k, which after the third post you finally concede. 


 


That is all, there is no change to the temperature of the final product once the kettle reaches its boiling point, meaning that with a 3kw kettle, the final temperature of the just-boiled-water will be the same as the temperature reached in a low wattage kettle. 


 


Which pretty much sums up the same kind of performance from a low wattage vacuum cleaner compared to a high wattage vacuum cleaner - both will suck up dust and put it into a bag or bin. Consumers have the choice to buy either low or high power appliances - both have their pros and cons - but the low watts these days have moved on from the 1990s and are higher to remain competitive. 
 
I meant the only way to get the ELEMENT hotter and thus boil the water quicker.

Benny seemed to understand it fine enough.
 
So yet again, even if kettles can have lower wattages, most buyers want a quick boil - evidently if a kettle is being used many times a day and far longer than a vacuum cleaner in usage, it really don't damage electricity usage that much if you do own a high power vacuum cleaner. Now that we've passed the kettle comparisons, you only need to consider the fridge/freezer that can use higher power that is an every day essential - yet brands are slow to make these appliances with lower power. Surely then it would stand to reason that if an appliance like a fridge/freezer has high wattage, it would burn up far more electricity than the use of a vacuum cleaner? 


 
 
I agree with this - my fridge freezer (A Hotpoint FFA97) uses a hell of a lot of energy - its rated at 120W for the motor, and then has a defrost heater as well that comes on each day as its a frost free model. Hard to believe it uses more power than a 100 watt old style light bulb, and the motor is running a hell of a lot on the average day.
 
Then theres my mobile aircon unit - that guzzles power at the rate of 1KWH - the equivalent of 1 bar of an electric fire, and you have these on for hours in the hot weather (When we do actualluy get it lol)
 
My Lec fridge is 90W and my freezer is 0.6A (don't know what that is in watts).

Neither of which are frost free fortunately/unfortunately depending on what you prefer - more maintenance or more electricity usage.
 
What about electric hobs then? Now, the induction styles which are pretty new and said to be energy efficient is all very well if you just have one hot plate. Yet, the Bosch PIL811T14E induction hob has 8 hot plates and built in, probably satisfying buyers on many levels and for the fact that it looks classy and looks like its up to the job in an expensively fitted kitchen. Total watts? You're looking at 7200 watts. ALL of that would be produced just to switch the darn thing on and use it, even if the newer induction style is a bit like halogen and offers an instant hotness for cooking on. 


 


One could argue that a hob isn't used every day but like a vacuum cleaner, we can't stipulate how many times a hob versus a vacuum cleaner is going to be used. Electric fitted hobs are just another example of how much total connected power a large appliance can use, however. 


 


Smaller appliances - the average combination microwave oven will have an 800 to 1000 watt element for the microwave alone compared to the 1300 watt quartz grill  - total added makes 2000 to 2300 watts. Hardly energy efficient there despite combo microwaves sporting energy efficiency ratings. 


 


 


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Thing is though Ryan, isn't it still better to have a low wattage Vacuum Cleaner and high wattage hob rather than a high wattage Vacuum Cleaner and high wattage hob ?

Of course if hobs could be decreased in wattage that would be great, but one is better than none.
 
My point is Jamie, that there is no need to be worried about a vacuum cleaner having low or high wattage - not when there are so many other appliances in the home that are used on a daily, regular basis and have a high wattage anyway to power up just to use the said appliance. Statistically, vacuums aren't used every day even if you yourself feel the need to vacuum every day. If the EU are really worried about appliance wattage and the amount of times they are used, they should really be attacking the larger appliances or appliances that ARE used every day. 


 
 
What about tumble driers? my Hotpoint Ulitima CTD80 uses 3000 watts on each cycle, and how often do you use a tumble drier - I dont have much choice as I have no outdoor space or garden to dry clothes and sheets etc.
We can all rave on about energy saving appliances like light bulbs and eco vacs, but the real power guzzlers like tumble drier, kettles, and Fridges dont really get talked about, as if an eco kettle or drier was made, it would take much longer to dry the clothes or boil the water, so ending using just as much energy in the end.
 
Precisely Steve! For most people in the west coast of Scotland where it rains almost every day, an electric tumble dryer is an absolute must and as for that JML Dri Buddi, don't even go there - I had two of them and they're absolutely useless unless you constantly dry towels or tea towels and nothing else. Everything else just comes out far too stiff to be worn in an instant. Not all electric airer dryers are bad though - I bought one from a BN store last year under a brand called "Signature," and it had a very similar feel and look to the Dri Buddi without any names on the blue fabric net - yet its super quiet and actually works properly compared to the loud "honk" of the JML product.
 
I tried the economy route with a clothes horse and the cats just ended up pulling the clothes off it and getting hairs all over everything. The only rooms they cant get in are the bathroom and the bedrooms, but there isnt the space in the bedrooms for drying clothes and sheets, and the rooms then get damp as well and the clothes take an eternity to dry. Most of my electricity bill is run up with the fridge freezer, and the tumble drier, and I have a gas hob and gas boiler for hot water.
I am not really that bothered about the input power of the vacuums as I spend about 10 minutes each day using them, and I dont use the high powered cleaners (the Miele S6 or S7) on full power anyway. Most of my Dysons are 1400W and the Henry is less than 1000W on low power which is ample for daily cleaning - even with the airobrush fitted.
 
Well talking of tumble dryers I have myself a good low wattage one plus it is vintage too!

An early 80s Bendix 7414 which uses 1900W with the motor and heater.

And anticipating your come back of "but it will take longer to dry", well, I've put t-shirts and trousers in it straight out of the washing machine and in 60 minutes they are done.
 

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