vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Should have said "isn't" going to hit a nerve.
EU Reducing Energy on Vacuums Update
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vintagerepairer
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in fact
You may as well scrub the bulk of the message I wrote.
What I meant to say was the cleaner would now be 50% cheaper to run than previous models, and that the old cleaner could then be described as using 100% more energy than the newer version.
You may as well scrub the bulk of the message I wrote.
What I meant to say was the cleaner would now be 50% cheaper to run than previous models, and that the old cleaner could then be described as using 100% more energy than the newer version.
hi-loswitch98
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A good example of an energy-saving vacuum is the Bosch GS-50 Power Silence, it uses a 1200w Compressor Motor which gives the same motor power & suction power as a Regular 2400w motor.
But, for the Hoover Purepower, Hoover have three choices;
1) Redesign it, give it a better build quality (as much as Hoover can do), add a lower wattage motor that gives the same amount of Air Watts etc. & sell it.
2) Scrap it because they can't be a**** to redesign it & just have a range of Bagless Uprights.
3) Put a lower wattage motor in it but don't have a redesign of the cleaner & produce a poor cleaner which most people won't buy because it now says '1000w' or '1200w' on the cleaner head instead of '2000w' or '2100w' seller numbers.
But, for the Hoover Purepower, Hoover have three choices;
1) Redesign it, give it a better build quality (as much as Hoover can do), add a lower wattage motor that gives the same amount of Air Watts etc. & sell it.
2) Scrap it because they can't be a**** to redesign it & just have a range of Bagless Uprights.
3) Put a lower wattage motor in it but don't have a redesign of the cleaner & produce a poor cleaner which most people won't buy because it now says '1000w' or '1200w' on the cleaner head instead of '2000w' or '2100w' seller numbers.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Yes, but if Hoover get rid of the bagged upright, Hi-Lo, it's the end of the paper bag from that design, which still sees service in those who own the Hoover Junior Deluxe/Starlight.
And a good example isn't the Bosch BS whatever, because that's a marketing promise led from the brand that others have done already. Unless you actually own the model and can share the experience by comparing it to a standard vacuum cleaner, you're really none the wiser.
Brands are claiming all the time about energy consumption promises - especially Bosch - but as my reviews have shown with the info I've collected through experience - energy saving can be a cumbersome and often annoying aspect for that low energy promise - dependent on brand and its model in question.
The Miele Air Teq floor head that is currently fitted to the S6 Ecoline and S8 models weighs about 740 grams - now, over half of that for the standard suction only floor heads which are lighter, you have to compromise on the added weight as the floor head sticks to the floor. The brands then cap the motors to allow a higher suction rate between the first three settings. In all my years of ownership of Miele's Ecoline models that claim to offer the "same power," their floor heads are generally heavier, bulkier to push and quite stressful. Oh they are good on pick up and they're durable due to the added weight, but they're not as easy to glide over surfaces than the lighter floor head.
Trying any one of Miele's standard suction only floor head then results in having to increase the suction speed of the Ecoline vacuum to meet the same amount of "pulling" power, but at the detriment of having to either open the air valve at the top of the handle just for a lighter push. So much effort when a standard cylinder vacuum without the nonsense of a heavy suction only "Eco" floor head eliminates all this nonsense!
Fine if you have muscles from Brussels, but in general a few brands need to look at ways of adding standard suction floor heads rather than unnecessarily adding stress to the owner because of the low eco promise.
And a good example isn't the Bosch BS whatever, because that's a marketing promise led from the brand that others have done already. Unless you actually own the model and can share the experience by comparing it to a standard vacuum cleaner, you're really none the wiser.
Brands are claiming all the time about energy consumption promises - especially Bosch - but as my reviews have shown with the info I've collected through experience - energy saving can be a cumbersome and often annoying aspect for that low energy promise - dependent on brand and its model in question.
The Miele Air Teq floor head that is currently fitted to the S6 Ecoline and S8 models weighs about 740 grams - now, over half of that for the standard suction only floor heads which are lighter, you have to compromise on the added weight as the floor head sticks to the floor. The brands then cap the motors to allow a higher suction rate between the first three settings. In all my years of ownership of Miele's Ecoline models that claim to offer the "same power," their floor heads are generally heavier, bulkier to push and quite stressful. Oh they are good on pick up and they're durable due to the added weight, but they're not as easy to glide over surfaces than the lighter floor head.
Trying any one of Miele's standard suction only floor head then results in having to increase the suction speed of the Ecoline vacuum to meet the same amount of "pulling" power, but at the detriment of having to either open the air valve at the top of the handle just for a lighter push. So much effort when a standard cylinder vacuum without the nonsense of a heavy suction only "Eco" floor head eliminates all this nonsense!
Fine if you have muscles from Brussels, but in general a few brands need to look at ways of adding standard suction floor heads rather than unnecessarily adding stress to the owner because of the low eco promise.
spiraclean
Well-known member
I think there will be very little redesigning of anything going on when this hits. More likely than not, certain manufacturers will simply sub a 2000+ watt motor for a 1000 watt one, colour the vac green and slap the word "eco" on the outside. Greenwashing at its best.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Greenwashing at its best.
Exactly. Reflection on the past is now very unfashionable, so I expect few consumers will even think back to a time when a 1000 watt cleaner was the norm, and many would not have been buying vacuum cleaners at that time. I also agree that the cleaners will see few design changes either, although the fans on the motor will have to be built in such a way to maximise suction output.
But ultimately, it does not matter how these cleaners are marketed and how much suction power they have, because if the motors are limited to a certain wattage by law then consumers will have no choice at all but to buy from what is available.
Exactly. Reflection on the past is now very unfashionable, so I expect few consumers will even think back to a time when a 1000 watt cleaner was the norm, and many would not have been buying vacuum cleaners at that time. I also agree that the cleaners will see few design changes either, although the fans on the motor will have to be built in such a way to maximise suction output.
But ultimately, it does not matter how these cleaners are marketed and how much suction power they have, because if the motors are limited to a certain wattage by law then consumers will have no choice at all but to buy from what is available.
The Hann steam cleaner machines use a heating element instead of a motor-but the wattage claims will equate to 12-13A @120V.And the heating element will truely pull that kind of power-unlike the motor-where the amp and wattage are derived in a lab with the motor on a test stand rather than in a vacuum cleaner.The actual use in a cleaner will actually be less.In the long run don't think these wattage rules are worth it.Just too many variables.It may encourage vacuum cleaner makers to try to make the most efficient machine they can with the least amount of power required.But to get down to it really-the vacuums power consumption and use on the customers electric bill is practically nothing compared to other uses such as lights,heating&cooling,laundry equipment,water heating,even if the folks in the household watch the TV a lot--that will be more power than the vacuum cleaner used.And even the home fridge will draw more power as a whole than a vacuum.
spiraclean
Well-known member
VR, I think the biggest change in motors will simply be a shift away from the cheapened single fan units many companies use now, back to twin fans. Nothing new, nothing to redesign, just a return to what was commonplace 20 odd years ago.
Dyson will most likely press on with their digital motor concept, rolling it out to cover a broader range of models than they do currently. Their current ceiling price appears to be around £400, but I fully expect them to start pushing for £500 when this happens. And people will pay it!
Floor heads and tools will go back to directing all of the available airflow into the surface being cleaned, rather than bleeding off excess suction through ventilation slots as many do now. Miele's AirTec head, and the one Numatic provide with their 800 watt cleaners, are two examples of this. Again, nothing new, they were all like this before ridiculously high wattages became the norm.
Possibly we may see more electric powerheads on cylinders. I know these have never been especially popular in the UK, and to the best of my knowledge Sebo is currently the only brand to offer one at retail (Numatic no longer have any on their website, which leads me to wonder if those still offered for sale are leftover stock). With lower wattages, the performance of turbo brushes may suffer somewhat, and for those wanting more oomph in a cylinder an electric brush may be the best alternative. Good luck to the manufacturers trying to sell that concept though, because it's something Brits have never gone crazy for.
One good thing may be an increase in the use of polypropylene dust bags, which typically retain greater airflow as the bag fills. There are still a few holdouts using paper bags, but I think this is one of the first things a manufacturer would change in a effort to wring more cleaning efficiency out of a lower wattage motor.
Dyson will most likely press on with their digital motor concept, rolling it out to cover a broader range of models than they do currently. Their current ceiling price appears to be around £400, but I fully expect them to start pushing for £500 when this happens. And people will pay it!
Floor heads and tools will go back to directing all of the available airflow into the surface being cleaned, rather than bleeding off excess suction through ventilation slots as many do now. Miele's AirTec head, and the one Numatic provide with their 800 watt cleaners, are two examples of this. Again, nothing new, they were all like this before ridiculously high wattages became the norm.
Possibly we may see more electric powerheads on cylinders. I know these have never been especially popular in the UK, and to the best of my knowledge Sebo is currently the only brand to offer one at retail (Numatic no longer have any on their website, which leads me to wonder if those still offered for sale are leftover stock). With lower wattages, the performance of turbo brushes may suffer somewhat, and for those wanting more oomph in a cylinder an electric brush may be the best alternative. Good luck to the manufacturers trying to sell that concept though, because it's something Brits have never gone crazy for.
One good thing may be an increase in the use of polypropylene dust bags, which typically retain greater airflow as the bag fills. There are still a few holdouts using paper bags, but I think this is one of the first things a manufacturer would change in a effort to wring more cleaning efficiency out of a lower wattage motor.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Not too sure what you mean regarding Miele's AirTeq floor head with bleed valves - it doesn't have any. I wish it did though as it is jolly well heavy to push half the time on carpets. Their main size turbo brush has an air slider bleed valve which isn't part of the Eco design.
spiraclean
Well-known member
Ah, I see what you mean - looking back at what I wrote, it could have been taken either way.
What I was getting at is that the new "eco" floor heads (e.g. Miele AirTeq and the Numatic one for 800 watt machines) are designed to focus all of the available airflow into the carpet, so as to make the most of the lower wattage motor.
Floor heads for higher wattage machines are usually designed to bleed off excess suction. Miele actually made mention of this in their brochures a few years ago, pointing out that their conventional floor head has "a hidden, but vital, ventilation system". Some allow air to be drawn in from around the baseplate, not just underneath, while others draw some air in through top shell of the head. Which rather begs the question, why have all that suction in the first place?
What I was getting at is that the new "eco" floor heads (e.g. Miele AirTeq and the Numatic one for 800 watt machines) are designed to focus all of the available airflow into the carpet, so as to make the most of the lower wattage motor.
Floor heads for higher wattage machines are usually designed to bleed off excess suction. Miele actually made mention of this in their brochures a few years ago, pointing out that their conventional floor head has "a hidden, but vital, ventilation system". Some allow air to be drawn in from around the baseplate, not just underneath, while others draw some air in through top shell of the head. Which rather begs the question, why have all that suction in the first place?
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Possibly to fill up the bags with more dirt thus forcing buyers to buy more bags?
The only floor heads that have successful air bleed valves are main size turbo brushes - SEBO, Miele and some old Vax, Hoover ones have bleed valves that makes gliding a heck of a lot easier than ploughing through carpet.
The only floor heads that have successful air bleed valves are main size turbo brushes - SEBO, Miele and some old Vax, Hoover ones have bleed valves that makes gliding a heck of a lot easier than ploughing through carpet.
spiraclean
Well-known member
Yep, turbo brushes usually have a true relief valve, in the form of either a slider or rotary vent. Allows you to have enough airflow going through the turbine to drive the brushes at a sufficient speed, while relieving some of the suction so the head doesn't bog down into the carpet.
On the rare occasions I use the turbo head on my Sebo D2, the vent usually needs to be left open. Running the cleaner at a high enough speed to drive the brushes usually results in the head sticking itself down onto the carpet. Slowing the motor down would prevent that, but also makes the turbo head less effective. Flicking open the vent solves the issue without affecting performance.
With regard to higher suction filling bags more quickly, I think after a certain level you reach the point of diminishing returns. There is only so much dirt that can be removed from any carpet by vacuuming. I've had Hoover cylinders with 700-800 watts that filled their bags at a rate of knots, and a 600 watt Hitachi upright that put many modern cleaners to shame. Now we have cleaners with twice or thrice the wattage, they don't fill *that* much quicker.
On the rare occasions I use the turbo head on my Sebo D2, the vent usually needs to be left open. Running the cleaner at a high enough speed to drive the brushes usually results in the head sticking itself down onto the carpet. Slowing the motor down would prevent that, but also makes the turbo head less effective. Flicking open the vent solves the issue without affecting performance.
With regard to higher suction filling bags more quickly, I think after a certain level you reach the point of diminishing returns. There is only so much dirt that can be removed from any carpet by vacuuming. I've had Hoover cylinders with 700-800 watts that filled their bags at a rate of knots, and a 600 watt Hitachi upright that put many modern cleaners to shame. Now we have cleaners with twice or thrice the wattage, they don't fill *that* much quicker.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Ah but isn't there a difference between synthetic dust bags and paper dust bags? I have noticed a difference with the synthetic dust bags in my Felix than the brown paper dust bags - the synthetics tend to last longer, possibly due to their thinner but much tougher quality than paper.
I also suspect that though the process of electrostatics are clearly used, the Felix bag (and indeed the SEBO D2 bags) can actually be reused again provided you empty the bag out and suck out the clogged areas. You can't do that with paper ones.
I also suspect that though the process of electrostatics are clearly used, the Felix bag (and indeed the SEBO D2 bags) can actually be reused again provided you empty the bag out and suck out the clogged areas. You can't do that with paper ones.
hi-loswitch98
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Surprise Surprise... Hoover have now got the Purepower Greenray Upright back on hoover.co.uk again but with no price as of yet.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
There are two Greenray models from the bagged Purepower with 1200 watts and the Dustmanager (based on the Freedom) Greenray upright at £179-99. Though Hoover's own link on Amazon UK shows a price of £117-99 as opposed to £174-99
The Purepower Greenray upright was last sold by Hoover from 2011, so even if it isn't listed on Hoover's own website, Amazon UK is far better to look for a search. As you will see from the link provided, it is "currently unavailable," and yet it doesn't look like anything on it has been improved since it was listed on Amazon UK and Hoover's spec page now.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hoover-PurePower-GreenRay-PU1240-Efficient/dp/B005MXNWE6
The Purepower Greenray upright was last sold by Hoover from 2011, so even if it isn't listed on Hoover's own website, Amazon UK is far better to look for a search. As you will see from the link provided, it is "currently unavailable," and yet it doesn't look like anything on it has been improved since it was listed on Amazon UK and Hoover's spec page now.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hoover-PurePower-GreenRay-PU1240-Efficient/dp/B005MXNWE6
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
madabouthoovers
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Purepower Greenray? I just checked and its not on there. The Freedom Airvolution Greenray (which they call the dustmanager greenray) is there, but not the Purepower version.
http://www.hoover.co.uk/small-appliances/vacuum-cleaners/upright-vacuum-cleaners/?pagesize=999
http://www.hoover.co.uk/small-appliances/vacuum-cleaners/upright-vacuum-cleaners/?pagesize=999
hi-loswitch98
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Type in 'purepower' on Hoovers search bar steve.
madabouthoovers
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Those are old models that have been on sale in the past and which HooverCandy no longer offer for sale, but which are obviously still waiting to be deleted from the website, that's why they have no price tags and you cant add them to the basket.
sebo_fan said that they were last sold in 2011.
It can quite easily have 290AW power for half the energy usage as it probably doesn't use the other 900W heating up the room. The 2100W Purepower wastes a lot of suction in back pressure due to the hose being too narrow to cope with it. Try removing the hose from the back of a 2100W Purepower when its switched on and feel the huge pull back on it from the bag entry socket. If the 2100W Purepower had a bigger hose diameter I reckon it would pull over 400AW.
The website also inaccurately says that the Purepower greenray has 8m cable in the specs and says 7m in the text. It also lists them as having bag full indicators which they don't.
sebo_fan said that they were last sold in 2011.
It can quite easily have 290AW power for half the energy usage as it probably doesn't use the other 900W heating up the room. The 2100W Purepower wastes a lot of suction in back pressure due to the hose being too narrow to cope with it. Try removing the hose from the back of a 2100W Purepower when its switched on and feel the huge pull back on it from the bag entry socket. If the 2100W Purepower had a bigger hose diameter I reckon it would pull over 400AW.
The website also inaccurately says that the Purepower greenray has 8m cable in the specs and says 7m in the text. It also lists them as having bag full indicators which they don't.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Sadly HI-LO, it is an example of Hoover's UK website - they are notorious for getting information wrong, showing old machines and not supplying the right data. If you go onto the site for example you won't be able to find the Slalom by physically typing the name in.
Yet if you do a Google search the following link appears - Hoover haven't updated to remove that link whether they sell the machine or not.
http://www.hoover.co.uk/small-appli...sl8123-slalom-bagless-upright-vacuum-cleaner/
Yet if you do a Google search the following link appears - Hoover haven't updated to remove that link whether they sell the machine or not.
http://www.hoover.co.uk/small-appli...sl8123-slalom-bagless-upright-vacuum-cleaner/
