EU Reducing Energy on Vacuums Update

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sebo_fan

sebo_fan

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Also Hoover in Germany have launched the Athos with an eco-version, the 1000 watt Athos (model number TAT 1000). The more I look at it, the more it reminds me of a love child between a Miele S6 and a Bosch BSGL5.

The new Athos has a long cord and similar 5 litre bag capacity to both the bigger Miele S8, S2 and Bosch BSGL5 series and copies Bosch on fitting 4 castors on the base. I'm not sure if this new lower powered model compared to the 2400 watt and 2500 watt versions has been launched to meet the new European requirements.

sebo_fan++11-15-2013-18-08-13.jpg.png
 
ohhhh yes!

This is great news! Finally something good the EU has actually done for once!

I hope that Hoover Europe put's an end to those 2300W sensory/dust manager bagless cylinder cleaners. 2300W is tooooooo much!
 
3000 WATTS?????

My lights flicker enough as it is with a 1400w Hoover Jazz when I switch it on! 3000w would probably put them out!
 
Better start buying up as many 2000W+ vacs as possible then folks, as they will die overnight just like the Incandescent light bulbs that got banned by the EU Rules and Regulations. Remember how people all dashed out and bought boxes and boxes of 100W and 150W light bulbs?

Hoover Purepowers will be coming to the end of the road then next year - as I cant see HooverCandy suddenly making them all 1000W again - perhaps they will launch a replacement bagged vac for the Purepower?

BANNED - The old faithful light bulbs by the EU:

madabouthoovers++11-16-2013-20-22-18.jpg
 
Well it just doesn't affect Hoover. But both Miele, SEBO and Bosch sell bagged vacuums with high power - Miele will have to change all their S5 and S8 ranges to meet the EU demand - most are 2200watts whereas SEBO's cylinder vacs are 2100 watt. Bosch are 2200watts for the most part, 2000 watts for the bagless ones though the Siemens mode Z6 (similar to the BSGL5) offers 2500 watts.

However, all the main 3 also offer Eco versions of their cylinder vacs apart from SEBO in the UK who offer Eco versions in other countries.

Hi-Lo - I take it then you have a gas oven too? Electric ovens are notoriously high as well.[this post was last edited: 11/16/2013-22:25]
 
Heated appliances with high wattages are not energy guzzlers though, as they are thermostatic and switch off as soon as the temperature is reached. An oven, hob, room heater, irons, even the humble kettle (albeit that switches off and stays off). The fact that they are higher in wattage means they get to temperature far more quickly, thus shut off more quickly too, meaning on a side-by-side comparison with a lower wattage, thermostatically controlled equivalent, they could in fact save energy.

This is unlike a light bulb or vacuum cleaner, which draws full power for the duration of the time it is on for. In the case of the light bulb, nothing about them had really changed until recent years; a 100 watt incandescent bulb 40 years ago was the same as one five years back. But as we all know, the vacuum cleaner has been proven to work efficiently on much lower wattages, as history testifies. It is only cheap and poor design, plus customer perception, which led to the installation of high wattage motors. All that needs to happen is for manufacturers to revert to what they were making 25 years ago.
 
Do these regulations cover wet-dry shop vacuums-or is it residentual ones only?There are Tornado and older NSS"Bronco" machines that had TWO 12A or 15A motors!Each motor blew into its own filter bag.The drum caught the large,heavy debris or liquids.Sometimes these machines were wired to run on 220V.Another wild example is the Tornado vacuums that have two compressed air powered venturi suction units-used like the electric motors-but required a 60CFM 100 PSI compressor to operate--talk about power consumption-that is a 30-60 HP motored compressor!Those Tornado suction heads could delivor up to 200" suction!!Guess you keep hands away!!!Like the electric motors they blew into a large bag.The drum caught the large stuff.
 
Interesting you mention this, Tolivac. Not withstanding what one might describe as "specialist" vacuum cleaners, cleaners here in the UK which are bought and sold for comemrcial use, such as in none-domestic buildings, house-cleaning companies, and basic cleaning of workshops etc have always utilised a relatively lower motor wattage. The Numatic range of cleaners are by far one of the most prevalent in the sectors I listed, and they typically run at around 1000 - 1100 watts on full power. The cleaners sold by others to compete with them are usually no more powerful either. But they all perform well in the suction stakes. Some of them are incredibly cheap to buy too, proving that a good design isn't always going to add lots of money to the price of the cleaner.
 
The report that I've given as a link clearly describes what kinds of vacuums are to be lowered - the interesting aspect is that they are discounting hand helds, cordless, wet and dry and commercial vacuums - now SEBO and Numatic could so easily hide under the "commercial" tag.

There is also mention of a $7 saving over a five year period of usage though how they get to that figure is mere speculation - it is impossible to collect information unless they have specifically run a vacuum for 1 minute to 24 hours, two days, a week, month, year. $7 is quite low - about £5 saving over a 5 year period IF brands lower their watts. Hardly seems worthwhile...

The other aspect that I am confused about is that whilst the U.S lists a lot of floorcare appliances as amps, I was looking at the Haan USA (Steam cleaners) website yesterday and they list their steam mops with watts - 1500 watts, 1600 watts and so on.

Yes, Hi-Lo, you are right - Panasonic do offer high powered uprights but they are also offering the 1200 watt uprights; I have a feeling that the 1200 watt models may well replace those higher powered bagged uprights soon.

Hoover also offer that Freedom/Dustmanager Eco upright but that is bagless.
Electrolux, Morphy Richards and of course other brands that make bagless uprights like Russell Hobbs etc would also have to change.
 
savings

It all depends on how it is viewed. I agree that a pounds, shilling, and pence formula is going to hit a nerve with consumers on this one.

However, take a 2400 watt vacuum cleaner, redesign it, and install a 1200 watt motor giving the same air watts as before. Now advertise it as 100% cheaper to run than the previous model. That would turn a few heads.
 
in fact

You may as well scrub the bulk of the message I wrote.

What I meant to say was the cleaner would now be 50% cheaper to run than previous models, and that the old cleaner could then be described as using 100% more energy than the newer version.
 
A good example of an energy-saving vacuum is the Bosch GS-50 Power Silence, it uses a 1200w Compressor Motor which gives the same motor power & suction power as a Regular 2400w motor.

But, for the Hoover Purepower, Hoover have three choices;

1) Redesign it, give it a better build quality (as much as Hoover can do), add a lower wattage motor that gives the same amount of Air Watts etc. & sell it.

2) Scrap it because they can't be a**** to redesign it & just have a range of Bagless Uprights.

3) Put a lower wattage motor in it but don't have a redesign of the cleaner & produce a poor cleaner which most people won't buy because it now says '1000w' or '1200w' on the cleaner head instead of '2000w' or '2100w' seller numbers.
 
Yes, but if Hoover get rid of the bagged upright, Hi-Lo, it's the end of the paper bag from that design, which still sees service in those who own the Hoover Junior Deluxe/Starlight.

And a good example isn't the Bosch BS whatever, because that's a marketing promise led from the brand that others have done already. Unless you actually own the model and can share the experience by comparing it to a standard vacuum cleaner, you're really none the wiser.

Brands are claiming all the time about energy consumption promises - especially Bosch - but as my reviews have shown with the info I've collected through experience - energy saving can be a cumbersome and often annoying aspect for that low energy promise - dependent on brand and its model in question.

The Miele Air Teq floor head that is currently fitted to the S6 Ecoline and S8 models weighs about 740 grams - now, over half of that for the standard suction only floor heads which are lighter, you have to compromise on the added weight as the floor head sticks to the floor. The brands then cap the motors to allow a higher suction rate between the first three settings. In all my years of ownership of Miele's Ecoline models that claim to offer the "same power," their floor heads are generally heavier, bulkier to push and quite stressful. Oh they are good on pick up and they're durable due to the added weight, but they're not as easy to glide over surfaces than the lighter floor head.

Trying any one of Miele's standard suction only floor head then results in having to increase the suction speed of the Ecoline vacuum to meet the same amount of "pulling" power, but at the detriment of having to either open the air valve at the top of the handle just for a lighter push. So much effort when a standard cylinder vacuum without the nonsense of a heavy suction only "Eco" floor head eliminates all this nonsense!

Fine if you have muscles from Brussels, but in general a few brands need to look at ways of adding standard suction floor heads rather than unnecessarily adding stress to the owner because of the low eco promise.
 
I think there will be very little redesigning of anything going on when this hits. More likely than not, certain manufacturers will simply sub a 2000+ watt motor for a 1000 watt one, colour the vac green and slap the word "eco" on the outside. Greenwashing at its best.
 
Greenwashing at its best.

Exactly. Reflection on the past is now very unfashionable, so I expect few consumers will even think back to a time when a 1000 watt cleaner was the norm, and many would not have been buying vacuum cleaners at that time. I also agree that the cleaners will see few design changes either, although the fans on the motor will have to be built in such a way to maximise suction output.

But ultimately, it does not matter how these cleaners are marketed and how much suction power they have, because if the motors are limited to a certain wattage by law then consumers will have no choice at all but to buy from what is available.
 
The Hann steam cleaner machines use a heating element instead of a motor-but the wattage claims will equate to 12-13A @120V.And the heating element will truely pull that kind of power-unlike the motor-where the amp and wattage are derived in a lab with the motor on a test stand rather than in a vacuum cleaner.The actual use in a cleaner will actually be less.In the long run don't think these wattage rules are worth it.Just too many variables.It may encourage vacuum cleaner makers to try to make the most efficient machine they can with the least amount of power required.But to get down to it really-the vacuums power consumption and use on the customers electric bill is practically nothing compared to other uses such as lights,heating&cooling,laundry equipment,water heating,even if the folks in the household watch the TV a lot--that will be more power than the vacuum cleaner used.And even the home fridge will draw more power as a whole than a vacuum.
 
VR, I think the biggest change in motors will simply be a shift away from the cheapened single fan units many companies use now, back to twin fans. Nothing new, nothing to redesign, just a return to what was commonplace 20 odd years ago.

Dyson will most likely press on with their digital motor concept, rolling it out to cover a broader range of models than they do currently. Their current ceiling price appears to be around £400, but I fully expect them to start pushing for £500 when this happens. And people will pay it!

Floor heads and tools will go back to directing all of the available airflow into the surface being cleaned, rather than bleeding off excess suction through ventilation slots as many do now. Miele's AirTec head, and the one Numatic provide with their 800 watt cleaners, are two examples of this. Again, nothing new, they were all like this before ridiculously high wattages became the norm.

Possibly we may see more electric powerheads on cylinders. I know these have never been especially popular in the UK, and to the best of my knowledge Sebo is currently the only brand to offer one at retail (Numatic no longer have any on their website, which leads me to wonder if those still offered for sale are leftover stock). With lower wattages, the performance of turbo brushes may suffer somewhat, and for those wanting more oomph in a cylinder an electric brush may be the best alternative. Good luck to the manufacturers trying to sell that concept though, because it's something Brits have never gone crazy for.

One good thing may be an increase in the use of polypropylene dust bags, which typically retain greater airflow as the bag fills. There are still a few holdouts using paper bags, but I think this is one of the first things a manufacturer would change in a effort to wring more cleaning efficiency out of a lower wattage motor.
 
Not too sure what you mean regarding Miele's AirTeq floor head with bleed valves - it doesn't have any. I wish it did though as it is jolly well heavy to push half the time on carpets. Their main size turbo brush has an air slider bleed valve which isn't part of the Eco design.
 
Ah, I see what you mean - looking back at what I wrote, it could have been taken either way.

What I was getting at is that the new "eco" floor heads (e.g. Miele AirTeq and the Numatic one for 800 watt machines) are designed to focus all of the available airflow into the carpet, so as to make the most of the lower wattage motor.

Floor heads for higher wattage machines are usually designed to bleed off excess suction. Miele actually made mention of this in their brochures a few years ago, pointing out that their conventional floor head has "a hidden, but vital, ventilation system". Some allow air to be drawn in from around the baseplate, not just underneath, while others draw some air in through top shell of the head. Which rather begs the question, why have all that suction in the first place?
 

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