Electrolux 1205 replacement motors - more powerful?

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Koobam

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Mar 2, 2012
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I found these new motors on Ebay through my attempt to eventually get a 1205 in good enough condition to fully get restored to mint condition - either by me or more likely by someone such as pnxluver (I think that's his username, but he does an *INCREDIBLE* job of restoring machines) and came across these -


Am wondering if these are higher revving and producing more suction and airflow akin to the current motors in the later plastic bodied machines and the current Aerus line of machines?




http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Motor-f...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f12b5d2d1#ht_1078wt_960
 
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Careful!

Just because a motor will fit the 1205 doesn't mean it's a motor made like the one that came in the 1205. There are Lux motors made with sleeve bearings instead of the round bearing, for instance, and they're not nearly so long-lived. They rev higher, and they do generate more suction, but the trade-off is reduced lifespan.

One of the excellences of the 1205 motor was that it was a very easy-to-service, long-lived design. It revved lower than some of today's motors, but that kept it well within its tolerance for stress.

There is also something to be said for keeping things as original as possible. Once you change out the original motor for a newer design, you will not have the same user experience - of going back in time. It will not sound like a 1205, and that lovely hushed "whoosh!" is part of the fun.

The higher suction of a newer motor is not going to make any difference in how clean your house is, trust me. A 1205 in good shape is going to get the job done, no problem.

I would check with the seller to find out if brushes and bearings are readily available for this motor, and whether it's a sleeve-bearing design. If it's sleeve-bearing, you're going to need repair parts sooner rather than later.
 
Suction vs. Cleaning Performance?

Really? I know with a good power nozzle suction isn't AS important, but it's always important to a strong degree, is it not? I'd love to have the most suction possible from an Electrolux, but then again, I do have my FilterQueen D31X that has a good 100-110 inches of water-lift easy and has as much suction as a Shop Vac - a good deal more than any metal bodied Electrolux and I think it'll be my main suction power house and that I will just keep the 1205 as-is. And they DO still have good suction the 1205's even in comparison to a FilterQueen or Miele (or even the current Kenmore Magic Blue's)
 
Brendan:

Stronger suction is better than weaker suction, but only up to a point. Other factors go into cleaning ability, like a PN's brushroll design.

All that a vacuum cleaner HAS to do is - get the dirt up off the surface, move it to the bag (or cup), and filter the exhaust. After that, it's a horsepower race - and as with cars, raw horsepower has a lot more to do with the ego of the owner than it does real-world performance.

Many a 1205 kept its owner's house absolutely spotless; it's all in your attitude towards housekeeping. A 1205, when new, was absolutely state-of-the-art, one of the finest canisters money could buy. The selling price was around $295 in the early '70s, making it a $1400 vacuum in today's money.

Don't forget that if you change out that motor, collectors who are familiar with the 1205 are going to know your machine doesn't sound the way it should right off the bat. A 1205 with a properly rebuilt original motor will get a lot more admiration.
 
I....

pretty much evoked some very good opinions on this recently, when I posted about "LUX suction".


 


The short of it:I thought my 1205 had dropped a little in suction & rpm. So...I had another 1205 ready to restore and rebuilt that motor along with the vacuum in question's motor. Identical sound and identical suction. Then....I went on to compare the suction of a restored G against the 1205....the G was the clean winner. More confusion....than what I started with.

We considered that maybe the chamber in the G was sealed better....I believe this to be true.   I did buy a rpm counter, but not the air flow meter or suction tool yet. I'll get back into this later towards summer; 'the dueling vacuums'.
smiley-tongue-out.gif



 


Kevin
 
P.S., Brendan:

There are several factors that affect suction on a 1205, and you should take care of them all.

The biggest one is the condition of the hose. An original hose is almost certainly going to leak by now; those rubber carcasses have seen their day. A genuine Aerus hose (like the one seen on pluxconlvr's restoration) is around $100. The genuine hose is way nicer than any aftermarket hose you'll find.

Making certain the bag door latch is properly adjusted is another factor. Also, the tubing that makes the Automatic Control work should be replaced, to prevent leaks. And the whole thing should be gone over for correct assembly and fit of parts - if anything is out of whack due to a poor previous repair, it can affect suction. The rubber seal for the bag tube should be in good shape, uncracked.

Getting a Lux RIGHT will repay your efforts many times over. Electrolux wasn't getting $100 more than a TOL Kenmore with Powermate in the early '70s for no good reason. At the time, a Lux was half again as much as the Kennie, and Sears wasn't giving THOSE away, Lord knows. Luxes were - and are - very fine machines.
 
Certainly...

agree with what Sandy said. The things he mentioned to check, I take for granted the restorer knows...but that's not always the case. And I also agree that if the windings in the old motor are 100%, there's no reason to assume that some mass made motor today would outperform it....no matter what the price point is. I always advise to buy the best, new hose you can find-one of the few things that modern technology made better. If you want to restore the old hoses, there was a cool link from a member here on how to do it. Or...someone posted (and I bookmarked it) about clear, heat shrink tubing that would cover the entire hose-roll of it.


 


Kevin
 
Thanks all

I have absolutely no interest in the original leaky hoses of the time when this machine was in its hay-day, but very much would love to have it completely restored by a professional to get it back to as mint condition as possible. I'm currently debating whether or not to purchase one off Ebay, but I think I'll let that be and maybe just get that super sexy 15 foot FilterQueen D31X hose :D


Anyways, yeah I'll probably see if I can get ahold of pnluxconvlvr or Vacuumman.com and see what they can do. I already emailed both in extensive detail, so I hope to get a reply back soon.


Also Real1 - YES! My 1205 did the EXACT SAME THING! It's definitely an issue and NOT normal - if the suction feels weaker than it should, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S WEAKER THAN IT SHOULD BE! I also smelt a slight burning smell emanating from the vacuum too. The suction decreased dramatically after about 3-4 minutes of running, but when it was running, the suction WAS pretty fantastic - and absolutely INCREDIBLE given the relatively ultra low power these machines use.
 
Damnit - what I MEANT is - I would absolutely love to get the VACUUM restored by a professional - either pnluxconvlvr or Vaccumman (or are there any other restorers on here?) - NOT the hose. I could care less about those older hoses.


I, for one, love the newer vinyl hoses. Nice and flexible, and durable and much longer lasting.
 
Original Hoses Have Their Place!

There is one time when an original hose comes in handy - for display purposes.

What I'm aiming for on my current 1205 is to have current-manufacture "driver" parts for the hose and the wand sheath, but to have originals for display. A 1205 looks very, very nice indeed with today's grey sheath and hose.

With the turquoise wand and sheath it was designed to have, it's breathtaking. Here's a link to Charlie Lester's page that deals with the 1205; scroll down until you see "Model 1205 - 1972" and look at the photo captioned "1205 Late." You'll see what I mean about the impact of all that turquoise.

Mmmmmmmmmm.......

http://www.1377731.com/lux/luxlall.html
 
Motor Specs

Here are the specs on the motor you have listed in your link, model 6500-301: Lift 79.7 CFM 99.1 Airwatts 286. These motors are made by the former electrolux motor manufacturing plant that was sold off in the early 2000's when the current powers that be decided to liquidate everything and outsource.

Power is fine, but like all single stage motors, lamb, miele, lindhaus, whatever, there is a high speed pitch/squeal that you can hear. Even my miele with all the sound insulation, you can still hear that high speed pitch, it's just nature of the beast!
 
Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

Sounds suspiciously like the same type of motor that went into later models, from the Diamond Jubilee on.

Those later models could pull like nobody's business when new, but their design was problematic, and they wore out much faster than previous Lux motors.

A 1205 motor is built in the best classic tradition of American Electrolux - it is so over-built it hardly breaks a sweat in use. Many of these machines still have their original, unserviced motors and still manage to run after forty years and more. By now, they usually benefit enormously from new brushes and bearings, plus polishing the commutator and a good cleaning, but by grannies, they still RUN.
 
Don't Do It..

do not get that motor...!! When replacing motors always buy the Lamb motors with the metal housings. They are easy to rebuild and if looked after will out live you.
 
You're awesome Koobam :)

Thanks so very much for the compliment. I will let you know of any parts or good pieces I come across. I agree about the motor. I am a neat freak that replaces or disinfects then runs everything through the "tough scrub" and "sanitize" feature of my dishwasher because I like a freash vacuum as well and I personally would NEVER even think of replacing the original motors in my Electrolux vacuums with the aftermarket motors for the sake of quality alone. There are a lot of great people in this club who have a lot of expertise in repair of motors. Brushes are easy to replace and sometimes a new armature or fan disk can be found or at least a good used one. I have a gray 1205 rebuilt by Electrolux that has water damage to the motor due to water being sucked up with the use of a floor scrubber from a previous owner. I am going to rebuild it myself with some added expertise. :)
 
Aqua sheath cleaning caution :

Don't try to clean an aqua sheath in a dishwasher. I had one turn a lighter green and did not match or fit the wand. My bad. :)
 
That motor is a cheap signle stage ( fan ) motor thats why there is an adaptor with it. Although I have yet to see one with my own eyes USA Electroluxes used double stage motors ( two fans ) which give them a particular sound. The new single stage motors are very powerful but do so by spinning up to 40  000 rpm this is why they last half the time and sound like a rocket. 


 


Try getting an original motor for it. it would be better. fitting that motor too your 1205 would be like ripping the engine from a clasic 50's corvette and putting a v8 lexus engine in it. It would be more  but it will ruin it. It would have lost all of its appeal 
 
Hey all

Thanks for all the input! Yeah I actually already have a 1205 that I'm thinking about sending off to Jeff at Vacuumman.com for a total restoration - he said it will be "like new" again - for about $150. I have the original motor that needs rebuilding (badly, has that slight burning smell and RPM decrease symptom that dramatically reduces the suction. It's scary) and the body and all, but no wands, accessories, power nozzle, or any replacement parts on hand.


I'd love to send it off to you pnluxconvlvr but it sounds like you already got your hands full with restorations - good on you man! I'm actually very OCD myself and have gone through therapists for it :P Even group meetings. It ranges from negative "harm" issues with myself (I'm sane enough, sometimes ;)) to being EXTREMELY meticulous about cleaning and rebuilding vacuums. Even sometimes if it get real bad (maybe good for this eh?) I'll use a brand new cloth with rubbing alcohol for each couple of swipes when cleaning the motor housing down or something like that.


But yeah would someday love to have a rebuilt 1205 to like-new condition (has gotta be one of my favorite Lux canisters besides the Marquise and Diamond Jubilee - I had a rebuilt (by me) Silverado that ran great but I just don't like that whole slanted curve on top with the thinner chrome sheet metal - much prefer the denser, stronger, heavier sheathing on top of the 1205)) - and have it WITH the original motor as you all have convinced me of doing - really, I was on the fence but the logic is pretty strong here :D


I actually have a like NEW FilterQueen D31X that I did list for sale here but I am now definitely gonna keep it and get a nice long 15 foot hose for it off of Ebay (original hose style and all) and have that be my super-sucker (has crazy water lift and suction - all whilst being relatively very quiet) and use my nice (gotta get re-polished and rebuilt too - looks good tho) Heritage II as my deep cleaner.

I also build and rebuild computers so having a quality canister that I can depend on for both BLOWING dust AND sucking dust/debris from computer cases and fans is a must.



Great what a quality machine can do, eh? It's saved my cats life or the health of it before and even helped me restore computers to better-than-not-otherwise condition.
 
:) Thanks for referring to me as a professional Koobam....

.......I am just an Electrolux lover. This is literraly my "shop" :

pnluxconvlvr++3-19-2012-16-24-32.jpg
 
Brendan:

Glad to hear you've come around to the side of originality!

You will not regret it. If you get the motor rebuilt correctly, and go through the vacuum to eliminate other issues, you'll have a fine machine that will pick up like nobody's business.

From your description, it sounds like you're going to need a PN, hose and tools as well. I hope I'm not stating the obvious, but if you will check with your local vacuum shop, you may end up pleasantly surprised - most vac shops accumulate a bunch of cast-off tools. I was recently able to put together a complete set of turquoise tools for my 1205, plus a PN-2 - all at much lower prices than eBay. Even better, I was also able to put together a complete set of ivory tools for my gold Model L.

P.S.: As you hunt for tools, you will find dusting brushes with their bristles badly worn, and the rubber "bulb" in the center torn. Do not pass them up - the bristles are replaceable (most vac shops stock them), and the "bulb" can be repaired with SuperGlue. Wash the brush's plastic part thoroughly and carefully, allow to dry very well, then use the SuperGlue. When you're through, you won't have any more trouble out of the brush.
 
P.S., Brendan:

- As you look for tools, crevice tools are the hard part! Ask someone who just found an ivory Lux crevice tool after Lord-knows-how-long searching....
 
OMG!!!

Jeff from Vacuumman.com IS AN INCREDIBLE INDIVIDUAL!


He COMPLETELY restores Electrolux vacuums of ALL models to literally LIKE NEW condition -and does so for an incredibly price of $150 for a COMPLETE rebuild that includes -

- Replace the cord winder

- New bearings, brushes, and tuning up the motor to like-new condition

- Hammering out *ALL* dents in the body and painting at a shop that specializes in the body paint for Lux canisters (or has a selection for them -at least the 1205 - exact matching turquoise)

- Sand blasting and removing all rust and old paint and repainting fresh coat

- Completely rebuilding and tuning the automatic shut off system and dirt selector

- Replaces ALL wheels, castors, and axels, and hub caps

- Cleans all the rubber and basically REPLACES ANYTHING THAT NEEDS REPLACING!


It's basically the Kirby rebuild program but for Electrolux's - and at an incredible price!


This guy JUST called me back after e-mailing me and told that I can send in my 1205 and he'll COMPLETELY rebuild it, and send it back for FREE and then once I have the cash, I can pay him.

My jaw literally dropped to the floor (almost) - he said he's been doing this for 30-33 years and has never been screwed over, so he's confident in my integrity.


I guess that just goes to show us Lux owners are respectable people, eh?


Seriously, ANYONE looking to get their Lux near as fresh out of the box as possible - this is the man, or God maybe? Haha ;)
 
Still....

<a name="start_16297.173995">Also Real1 - YES! My 1205 did the EXACT SAME THING! It's definitely an issue and NOT normal - if the suction feels weaker than it should, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S WEAKER THAN IT SHOULD BE! I also smelt a slight burning smell emanating from the vacuum too. The suction decreased dramatically after about 3-4 minutes of running, but when it was running, the suction WAS pretty fantastic - and absolutely INCREDIBLE given the relatively ultra low power these machines use.
</a>


 


It's not that exactly....I know when a small motor exhibits faults. I'm pretty sure the motor is fine, as I restored two of them with exactly the same results.


 


So.....I want somebody else to do the thick, postcard test using a G against the 1205 in a suction contest. My G was clearly the winner and I don't think it should be...or at least that one-sided.


 


Kevin
 
Motor Upgrade

Lots of very interesting reading in here. So I'm putting back together my 1205. I have the original motor I pulled out. I'm gonna rebuild it since it's out but looks clean otherwise.

My question then, in keeping it with original parts (this is a 2nd build), what is the last of the higher performance motors to use in these 1205's? I have a pull from a Silverado with the tan plastic top end and a single thin fan. Is this the newer less proffered motors you guys are talking about? Where did the motor quality change? Did the all metal housing motor of the 1205 go through any performance changes near its end going into the time of the Golden J? What's your guy's take on the motor used in the Golden J?

Are these motors used in the 1205's same power or model as used in the Automatic E and F? I have those and it has a distinctive sound of smoothness to them.

Kristopher
 
Silverado

is a bigger more powerful motor of Electrolux. The motor is the next generation and very good motor. Only thing is it won't fit the 1205. The last motor to fit is the Golden J and is a 50th Anniversary model and is a gold 1205.To understand what I am saying go down further in the threads to Super J. The story of the Super J and how the 1205 and Super J (Silverado) motor differ.
 

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