Dyson Piston

[cheesewonton]

certainly these products works well, but again, these are not innovation these are features that helps the user, and even Dyson had these Concerns when it comes to design their products…You can speak well of your products and be objective about other brands too, no need to make statements based on your likes
By the way we studied some Dyson project in my university, I’m not a fanboy but I can tell you that sebo or Kirby or other are not very good subjects to study because they belongs to a very ancient design school that now no longer makes sense of existing for different kinds of reasons….

I guess this is where we disagree. Features that help the user are the very definition of innovation. Those are the kinds of innovations I seek in a home appliance, and in motorcycles and cars too. A lot of Dyson innovation makes the vacuum less usable IMHO. I can say the same about too many ( as in nearly all ) modern automobiles and motorcycles. I don't want my car thinking for me. I don't even like automatic transmissions much less traction control or automatic braking. I don't want any telematics. I don want my car recording my driving or the manufacturer pushing software updates over a wireless connection unawares to me. With my last purchase I could have bought a brand new Transit Connect but instead deliberately bought one from 2015 to avoid the automatic braking and telematics. Companies are innovating their products to the point where users cannot reasonably maintain them any more. That is a huge step backwards. This is why I tend to stick with old cars, old motorcycles and older vacuums, with some exceptions.

 

[Follettolover]

I guess this is where we disagree. Features that help the user are the very definition of innovation. Those are the kinds of innovations I seek in a home appliance, and in motorcycles and cars too. A lot of Dyson innovation makes the vacuum less usable IMHO. I can say the same about too many ( as in nearly all ) modern automobiles and motorcycles. Companies are innovating their products to the point where users cannot reasonably maintain them any more. That is a huge step backwards.

There are differences between additions that help and additions created for marketing, those are the additions that do not innovate, but honestly I don't understand what useless features of Dyson are you talking about, if you can list them I can understand better

 

[centralsweeper63]

Kirby and SEBO belong to the design school of durability. I don' want my vacuum being hypersensitive over dirt. I don't want to be fussing about a computer, or having to get out the crevice tool for edges because the front is curved, or really worrying about lots of the other 'features'.

 

[Follettolover]

Kirby and SEBO belong to the design school of durability. I don' want my vacuum being hypersensitive over dirt. I don't want to be fussing about a computer, or having to get out the crevice tool for edges because the front is curved, or really worrying about lots of the other 'features'.

I'm sorry but if I went to the chair of my university with a project designed like a Kirby vacuum cleaner they would send me home, they are so badly designed that for me they should not be sold anymore, here in Italy they have not been seen since the 80s and all those who had it abandoned it after a month, these are not product well design

 

[centralsweeper63]

What is wrong with it. They are heavy, yes, though they clean well.

 

[cheesewonton]

There are differences between additions that help and additions created for marketing, those are the additions that do not innovate, but honestly I don't understand what useless features of Dyson are you talking about, if you can list them I can understand better

Software. Why does any vacuum ever need software? For what? The Fluffy Cone thing. Ridiculous. The Ball. All they did with the Ball was make the vacuum way more difficult than necessary to service, as in replace switches and contacts that fail or to extract a motor. Geez, you need three different size Torx bits to get the motor out and it is buried under layers like one of those Russian nested dolls. And you have to be exquisitely careful working on them because the plastic is so brittle and easy to break. Hate the things with a passion but they keep my favorite vacuum shop in business fixing them. The tech must have the patience of a saint !

On a Kenmore canister you remove four screws, lift the upper body off and the motor and cord reel are right there. Simple and easy. On a Tristar you remove three long screws, give the body a couple of whacks with a rubber mallet and it comes apart. Undo two wire nuts and lift the motor out. And the Tristar is all metal. Nothing even a tiny bit fragile about it. I have old Compacts ( the name Interstate used before changing the brand name to Tristar ) that are older than I am ( I'm 68 ) and they still run perfectly. I have a Model 1 from about 1944-45 and all it needed was some new bearings and brushes in the original motor along with a new cord ( found a NOS gray cord that matched the original ) and a lot of scrubbing. Runs like new. The hose connection and inner cloth bag are identical to what Tristar used through the DXL so no problem replacing them. No Diesoon is going to last 80-81 years like that old Compact. We have a 43 year old Kenmore canister that cleans as well as any modern vacuum, accepts a modern HEPA dust bag from Numatic and doesn't require much in the way of upkeep. Once in a while you rebuild the power nozzle and I have replaced the motor. Nice thing is that you can still buy good motors for them that fit and cost under $100. The things wear like iron.

 

[centralsweeper63]

No Dyson can match that kind of reliability.

 

[cheesewonton]

I'm sorry but if I went to the chair of my university with a project designed like a Kirby vacuum cleaner they would send me home, they are so badly designed that for me they should not be sold anymore, here in Italy they have not been seen since the 80s and all those who had it abandoned it after a month, these are not product well design

Kirby still sells vacuums in the EU. In fact if you look at their parts schematics you find many parts are specific to EU models. The brand new Avalir Platinum has a 240 volt EU version. The sound deadening measures found in the Avalir Platinum were driven by EU noise regulations and were being incorporated into EU models before the introduction of the Avalir Platinum in the US.

 

[cheesewonton]

I have said many times that Kirby needs to send an engineer or two to apprentice with Ducati, KTM, Aprilia or BMW and learn the art of engineering light weight aluminum castings. I look at the engines of motorcycles from these brands and the castings are works of industrial art. Ultra light yet strong. Material only where necessary as determined by Autocad. Bring that knowledge back to the US and design a modern Kirby that is light and one that also benefits from computational fluid dynamics to maximize airflow. Do that without sacrificing Kirby durability. I am betting a contemporary design would no longer need Tech Drive and that alone would be a huge improvement.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That sounds pretty darn good!

 

[cheesewonton]

If something that helps the user isn't a feature then what is? Those are the qualities I look for. I could care less about digital displays and a bunch of settings I will never use. I just want something that is easy to use, does the job well and will last twenty years or more. I'm not impressed by flash. I don't need a digital display. It's just a distraction and more to go wrong over time. I'm impressed by function and durability. As long as there are discriminating buyers who value quality, function and durability there will always be a market for Sebo, Lindhaus, Kirby, Patriot, etc. Solid functional products.

 

[centralsweeper63]

30 years is my demand.

 

[Follettolover]

If something that helps the user isn't a feature then what is? Those are the qualities I look for. I could care less about digital displays and a bunch of settings I will never use. I just want something that is easy to use, does the job well and will last twenty years or more. I'm not impressed by flash. I don't need a digital display. It's just a distraction and more to go wrong over time. I'm impressed by function and durability. As long as there are discriminating buyers who value quality, function and durability there will always be a market for Sebo, Lindhaus, Kirby, Patriot, etc. Solid functional products.

I can agree on smartphone applications, they are quite useless, I can also agree on the display and the lack of repairability of some models but you are continuing to miss the point of my speech, I never said that all Dyson models are perfect or innovative but that compared to other multinationals James Dyson since the 80s tries to introduce real novelties in the sector and not improvements that help the user, it makes me laugh when to argue we use the word "it's capitalism" "it's marketing" naturally that it is, we are talking about very rich companies and it is pretty obvious that a good 70% are advertising and mainstream features (app, particles size etc) right now more than ever since the company has a popularity never seen before; But talking to intelligent people I assume that this is the starting point and that you can deepen the topic with more detailed topics; but if we look at other multinationals we will realize that in its career Dyson has never really thought about money but has continued to launch products that failed continuously just to introduce a level up going by trial, as was the double-basket washing machine and also this v16

 

[centralsweeper63]

He was very confident in his washing machine though. He has money to save him if it goes poorly, that is the thing.

 

[Follettolover]

He was very confident in his washing machine though. He has money to save him if it goes poorly, that is the thing.

He went bankrupt several times and had multiple loans and mortgages unfortunately, but he was lucky and honestly his projects were rewarded in the end, the washing machine was actually a great project but he did not deal with very high repair and production costs because he had two baskets, two engines etc so it was an abandoned project, from mistakes we learn ... more or less since then he ended up bankrupt again to design the car global multinationals would never have dared so much

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yeah, James Dyson has never gone bankrupt, except for that he nearly went bankrupt when developing the cyclones.

 

[Follettolover]

Yeah, James Dyson has never gone bankrupt, except for that he nearly went bankrupt when developing the cyclones.

I think his family has never been wealthy, moreover his father died when he was little, I think he did everything by himself with his money at the beginning and this is a great thing that denotes willpower...investing in your own thinking
I also think that the fact that he still manages everything is one of the biggest problems, and a double-blade knife because on the one hand he has total control, but if something goes wrong everything collapses and in fact I think that the current products are the result of obvious budget cuts

 

[centralsweeper63]

He did gamble at the start, but then he was good.

 

[vac14012]

I'm concerned about the future of the company with the complete outsourcing of the new Robot Vacuum. It's one thing to manufacturer things in another country but to completely outsource the development and just slap the Dyson name on it is crazy.

 

[cheesewonton]

I'm concerned about the future of the company with the complete outsourcing of the new Robot Vacuum. It's one thing to manufacturer things in another country but to completely outsource the development and just slap the Dyson name on it is crazy.

He has outsourced his products for a very long time. He was using human trafficked slave labor in Malaysia to make his vacuums until the British press exposed his duplicity. He is as phony as a three dollar bill. He is good at copying others ideas and marketing them as his own..

 

[cheesewonton]

He did gamble at the start, but then he was good.

He sued Amway over the Cleartrak design, Amway counter sued and after they settled he made a bunch of money and used it to launch his own brand.

 

[Follettolover]

I'm concerned about the future of the company with the complete outsourcing of the new Robot Vacuum. It's one thing to manufacturer things in another country but to completely outsource the development and just slap the Dyson name on it is crazy.

James is getting old and honestly his son doesn't have ideas as radical as his dad, I think we should hold on to our v15 and gen5 which are well done in every aspect, as well as I still have iPhone 4 and 5 which are the Steve Jobs' latest iPhones

 

[vac14012]

He has outsourced his products for a very long time. He was using human trafficked slave labor in Malaysia to make his vacuums until the British press exposed his duplicity. He is as phony as a three dollar bill. He is good at copying others ideas and marketing them as his own..

Manufacturing yes but never the actual design of the product. The new robot vacuum seems to be entirely designed by Picea. With a few minor changes maybe, like the dock having a Cyclone bin. That's a bad sign for the future of the company.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yes. Bad things lurk ahead. CheeseWonton, I mean early on by when he was developing the cyclones, before fantom, Amway, that one japanese market machine, when he was developing the cyclones itself.

 

[cheesewonton]

He adapted existing industrial cyclone designs to vacuums. And not surprisingly using a cyclone designed for constant airflow doesn't filter as well in a vacuum where airflow is constantly and dramatically changing. That is a big part of the reason why Dyson cyclones become clogged. Wrong tool for the job. For my money the Japanese style bagless vacuums with the removable dust chamber does a better job in real world conditions. They don't clog. In fact I am always astounded how clean they arrive from Japan after many years of use and no pre-sale cleaning. The dust bin is dirty inside but the filters stay open and the rest of the vacuum stays clean.

Yes. Bad things lurk ahead. CheeseWonton, I mean early on by when he was developing the cyclones, before fantom, Amway, that one japanese market machine, when he was developing the cyclones itself.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I agree that Dyson cyclones don't work well, though I was just trying to clear up what I meant.

 

[Follettolover]

He adapted existing industrial cyclone designs to vacuums. And not surprisingly using a cyclone designed for constant airflow doesn't filter as well in a vacuum where airflow is constantly and dramatically changing. That is a big part of the reason why Dyson cyclones become clogged. Wrong tool for the job. For my money the Japanese style bagless vacuums with the removable dust chamber does a better job in real world conditions. They don't clog. In fact I am always astounded how clean they arrive from Japan after many years of use and no pre-sale cleaning. The dust bin is dirty inside but the filters stay open and the rest of the vacuum stays clean.

I've had the v10, the v11 and the v15 and an old dc08 for 20 years and they've never been clogged, the secret is to empty them every day in this way the air chambers remain clean, many people abuse the container exceeding the Max and then complain...try other cyclones not Dyson and then we'll talk about it again