Direct air motor vs Clean air motors

[marcusprit]

How much more dirt will a direct air cleaner pick up than a clean air motor as a percentage?

For example a Kirby Sentria compared to a Miele S7?

Would the difference be more than 5%?

 

[turbomaster1984]

Nobody can actually answer this.

It depends on so many factors.

How long is a piece of string ?

 

[marcusprit]

I do know that the CRI give Kirby a Gold award but they haven't tested Miele. Sebo get a Bronze award.

Would be interesting if anyone knows what the difference in percentage is?

 

[sebo_fan]

There are too many variables. You'll never be able to get a clear answer.

 

[jade_angel]

There's really only one way to find out, and almost nobody does this:

Construct a standard test carpet sample, like for example a 2x2 meter square, mount it to a fixed backing, then make a few of them. Rub in a fixed mass of a fixed kind of dirt (say a 33/33/33 mix of walnut shell, cat hair and silt) in a consistent way, and then, using an empty vacuum with new filters, vacuum the carpet square in a fixed number of strokes in a fixed pattern and weigh how much each vacuum sucks out.

Even then, you might find that some clean-air machines outperform some dirty-air ones. I'd be *really* surprised to see an Oreck XL outclean a TOL Riccar canister, for example, but not surprised at all if a Royal or a Sanitaire did.

Also, if you did this with different dirt mixes, or on different kinds of carpet, the results would almost certainly vary.

 

[marcusprit]

That would be interesting to do Eric. If I had a Kirby handy I'd test it up against my clean air machines just to see what the difference would be.

Of course there's variables but I'd like to do the test on my carpets just out of interest.

 

[floor-a-matic]

Check your local garage/yard sales, curbsides or thrift stores & pawn shops; U might find a Kirby there

 

[marcusprit]

I do have a friend who has a Ultimate G I'll see if I can borrow it for a weekend.

 

[sebo_fan]

"...using an empty vacuum with new filters, vacuum the carpet square in a fixed number of strokes in a fixed pattern and weigh how much each vacuum sucks out...."

Yes, but make sure you clean the brush roll off first, otherwise whatever is on it before hand may be dislodged by the test material you are picking up, not to just mention that but also the dust channel, the dust hose channel and anything else inside the vacuum that will surely deter the transparency of the test given that sand or grit etc can dislodge existing dust and take it to the dust bag.

You'll never be able to prove anything unless you put two never used before brand new vacuums to the test.

 

[marcusprit]

It will not be 100% accurate of course but it will give a rough idea.

 

[sebo_fan]

It was a thought that came to me when I did the pick up tests showing SEBO Felix vs dirty fan Vax VCU02. The videos were created for those who argued that the Felix didn't agitate or whatever...

But I realised in time that even if someone takes a dirty vac and a clean vac and does a pick up test measuring whatever is left in the bag, it isn't exactly accurate judged on the state of the vacuums used. Fair if they are brand new - they won't "add" dirt to the bag other than what has been tested to pick up.

 

[marcusprit]

I suppose you could let the cleaner run for a while to suck up any loose dirt inside the machine then clean the brushroll and fit a new bag.

 

[kirbysthebest]

Difficult to home test

But if you look at CRI, of the Gold level Uprights, most are either direct air or tandem air machines. Exception were the Riccar Vibrance/Simplicity Symmetry twins, Anyway, I was surprised to see several back pack straight suction machines in the Gold category. Guess they have enough suction to override the need for agitation.

Anyway, like I said would be difficult to duplicate at home with so many variables, but would be fun to try, of course, you wouldn't have the NASA-enhanced x-ray fluorescence technology, but you could use a simple kitchen scale with an in/out chart. Problem with residue left over, which is why they start with clean carpet to begin.

 

[marcusprit]

Won't be as accurate as CRI but like you say would be fun to try and I live for having fun

 

[kirbymodel2c]

" I live for having fun "

<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">What other types of fun do you live for apart from playing with vacuums...?

</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">James

</span>

 

[marcusprit]

I wonder why the Royal Everlast doesn't get a CRI Gold Award?

From what I've seen of it, it's a beast of a cleaner. Possibly too aggressive for some.

 

[marcusprit]

Haha I couldn't possibly reveal that on here James!

 

[kirbysthebest]

DK why Royal Everlast is not Gold when there were two commercial metals in the top.
Maybe the Everlast had cramps the day of the competition and didn't compete well ;-}

It could also be the brushroll difference as there are two of the commercials in the silver level with the Everlast.

I wish they would show the actual score card for each machine as I am betting there is some variable there that caused the deviation.

 

[sebo_fan]

I wouldn't find it fun to see what vacuum rips my wool carpets to shreds; based on the £3000 paid to buy and install the carpets in the first place.

Whilst it is "fun" to see how much a vacuum picks up in a versus test, you also forget that it also depends on the condition/texture of the bristles on the brush bar. Aggressive will remove more than necessary in my experience compared to softer bristles.

 

[blackheart]

Royal

I'm going to guess filtration brings it down, same thing for sanitaire.

While not exactly scientific i've managed to get my hands on some hot pink sand. I do have a fairly plushy rug in the basement where my collection sits. to see how they compare to each other i've been pouring some sand then spreading and grinding it in with my shoes.

The best performers were the direct and tandem air machines both the kirby g6 and the riccar radiance had all visible debris up in 2 passes (2 forward and 2 back)
The lindhaus Healthcare pro took 3
the Simplicity 7 needs a new belt as i heard some squealing but it took 4 this will be re-done when i get a new belt.
The miele S7 freshair takes about 4 but there's almost always a little patch left after 4 passes, i have tried both the deep pile and low pile settings.
Oreck XL-21 3 passes
Oreck XL Ultra 9-10 passes

 

[marcusprit]

That's interesting.And you could be right about filtration but some of the Riccar don't have a HEPA filter I think some just have that foam thing but still get a gold. Could there be some favouritism going on?

And I agree Nar some cleaners will def wear your carpet prematurely

 

[kirbysthebest]

Filteration is possible

I do notice a difference in my Riccar Supralite between the Cloth-Hepa, and Paper bag. The machine seems to "breath" easier with the Hepa. My non-scientific method for this is you can feel the bag with the machine running. The Hepa bag you can depress very easily as the air is readily escaping, whereas the paper bag is firmer more balloon like with air not exiting as easily. This slowing of the air flow will effect the pick up abilities.

Like I said earlier, I would like to see a spec chart and test page for the machines. What brushroll, if there were stiffeners, bag type etc.

 

[blackheart]

That is true

Some of them don't have hepa filters, but they do use the hepa bags.

 

[marcusprit]

I think CRI should adopt a similar method as the EU test. Ratings from A to G for Carpet performance, Filtration, Energy and Noise that would give a clearer picture

 

[sptyks]

Vacuum test

Fact: only the Direct air Royal Everlast and the Tandem air Riccar vacuums can compete Head to Head with Kirby "G" series vacuums! There is not a Bypass air vacuum that can out clean a Kirby G series vacuum.


 


 


 

 

[marcusprit]

I wasn't saying there was. Would just be interesting to see how much the difference is between a direct air such as a Kirby and the best clean air machines.

 

[turbomaster1984]

sptyks that's a very broad statement. wheres your proof and fact finding references?

 

[marcusprit]

To be honest Stan is probably correct with his statement.

 

[turbomaster1984]

why? what says? what tests?