dare i say it Titanic

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I....

had the privilege of sailing on the SS United states as a boy....a Caribbean cruise out of NY Harbor.  Docked in a slip next to the SS United States was the SS France. The SS France was just a few cabins bigger.  And before someone tries to correct me by saying the United States was not a steam ship, it was. It had 8 boilers and 4 steam turbine engines. It was a lot for a boy to take in, but I managed somehow.
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The magnificence of the United States will always be with me. I've been on luxury cruises since then, but no ship ever even close to the United States. Sad story today....rotting away in some harbor after several failed attempts to restore her.
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On to vacuums.....


 


Kevin
 
Frankly I'm sick to death of Titanic - the film, the music, everything that is associated with it - I don't know why the Americans take great pleasure in celebrating Titanic or going mad for a ship that smacks in the face of the British for not testing it properly. Still we see the film every year, still we have to keep being pestered by anniversary celebrations. It is a sadness for those families who lost actual victims. I don't see 9/11 being boosted so much - or is that too close to home?
 
HOOVER BOOK

Hi I am Danny ryan from Hamilton onterio Canada and I have those PICTURES.
As well Danny.
 
vacs on hat ship

yes the film was fabulous when it came out the special effects but the icing on the cake would have been to see someone vacuuming the acres of brand new carpets . In the years since the films realease i have often wondered why no one has ever built a replica of the ill fated ship and sailed it back and forth across the pond people would be falling over themselves to travel on it the owners would clean up [excuse the pun]of course this one would have to have radar ?
 
Well....

for one thing Anthony, it would be incredibly 'bad luck' to make a replica and sail it across the Atlantic-sailors are notoriously superstitious about such things. Quite frankly, except for its old-fashioned luxury appointments and the English ill-fated 'class society' concept, there were better and more interesting passenger ships made after the Titanic and the Olympic.


 


Kevin
 
Well, MY thoughts

It WAS a beautiful creation. It WAS a tragedy, for all of the lost lives, etc. We just saw the 100 th anniversary of it all.
As far as 9-11 being too close to home... it happened 2 hours from my home.I know people who just missed death. Our own member, Joe Kassock lost his partner in it. I drove to Newark 4 days after. I saw the "glow" from the fire. I smelled the "burning". Some think it should be seen more, others, it's too much.
Someday, they'll make more movies about 9-11. All Titanic survivors are now gone. We reflect, remember, and are still fascinated by it all.
The World Trade Center, The Pentagon, and the PA site are very new, very real, and the U.S. pain is very deep.
One also must remember that 9-11 was an act of terror. The Titanic wasn't. The fans of Titanic aren't blaming anyone. Just my thoughts on it all. As far as 100th anniversaries: we gathered in North Canton to celebrate HOOVER'S century birthday. We stood in a factory that had JUST closed. That was sad, too. But, we remember, reflect, rejoice, and lament, all at the same time. We can only imagine the horror that night on Titanic.We heard of some of the horrors in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania. We dream of what those people could have done with their lives. Sad, indeed.
 
The....

Titanic was thoroughly eclipsed by the Queen Mary, the Queen Elizabeth, the QE2, the SS France and the SS United States just to name a few of the greater ships made after. Ships that had decades of illustrious history/service, including service in WWII and beyond. To capitalize on the Titanic 5day, ill-fated cruise into ruin and tragedy is to ignore all the wonderful ships that came after her. If anything, the arrogance of its owners and the flaws of her design led to much safer ocean liners and cruise ships for future generations to enjoy, myself included.


 


Kevin
 
So true....

So many improvements, etc, were made because of that terrible disaster.
Think about how much safer the travel of the President is because of that fateful day in Dallas in 1963. NONE of that would be allowed today. Of course, there is danger. But, these events, and others, have made improvements and helped safety for so many others "after".Thank God.
 
lessons learned

Speaking as someone who has been fascinated by Titanic since childhood, there are many reasons it holds our attention. To begin, the tragedy of Titanic spelled the beginning of the end of Edwardian class distinctions. The ship herself was a marvel of her time. Yes, she was later eclipsed, but her beauty and attention to the first and second class details were the epitome of luxury in 1912. There was even electric lighting in steerage, unheard of at that time.

Personally, I think a large part of the reason we are still thinking about Titanic is the drama of the night. There was heroism and cowardice. Lives saved and too many lives lost. And, let us not forget Captain Smith, who went down with his ship. Or the Strauss couple, who refused to be parted and perished together. These are the events and people that we remember and honor--not "smack in the face of the British", at least to my reckoning. May the lost souls rest in peace, but not forgotten!
 
Titanic....

Actually exceeded British Board of Trade regulations concerning lifeboats. The regulations of the time (based on gross tonnage, not passenger capacity) only required her to carry 16 lifeboats, and she had 20. While this does not excuse White Star Line, it does point to regulations not keeping up with the increased passenger capacity of North Atlantic liners.

I agree that the luxury of Titanic (and her nearly identical sister ship Olympic) was later surpassed. But these two ships (and their ill-fated sibling Britannic) were among the first super-luxury liners, offering comforts many people of the era had yet not experienced on land, let alone sea. It was not every day you could - as Lady Duff-Gordon did on Titanic - have hothouse strawberries in April. Having clean, smokeless, safe electric heat on-demand in your stateroom was previously unheard of. Having electric lighting as the sole illumination for all classes and all areas of the ship was pretty new. Being able to keep in touch with your business interests, family and friends on shore via Marconigram (wireless telegraphy) was a science-fiction wonder that had only been available for a few years at that time - it was the equivalent of a sat-phone today.

There were some things we'd consider "primitive" now, sure. Private baths were in only the most luxurious suites; everyone else bathed in bathrooms that had to be booked with a bath steward, even in First Class - an arrangement also common in luxury hotels on land at the time. But there was a swimming pool. There was a gym. A library. Cafes were open for between-meal refreshments. Fresh flowers were everywhere.

And for those who wonder why we still remember the Titanic disaster: We don't remember it half enough. The incompetent bureaucrats who did not require enough lifeboats for her are still with us in a new generation, making different laws, but paying no more attention to reality than they did in 1912. We thought Titanic was primitive in her safety features and that more modern ships would never fail so spectacularly - except that only this year, Costa Concordia could and did and capsized into the bargain, because modern ships are incredibly top-heavy, to accommodate today's demand for outside balcony suites. We're in a new century, but all we've accomplished is to invent new mistakes, because what we have NOT learned is how to stamp out incompetence, greed and hubris among our ruling classes.

And the biggest reason for remembrance is this: People died. One thousand, five hundred and fourteen of them, to be exact. The healthy ones froze to death in the icy North Atlantic. The older ones had fatal heart attacks as soon as they hit that freezing water. Some were electrocuted. Some were cooked alive by steam escaping from broken pipes. Some were crushed by fixtures breaking loose, by machinery, by pianos. And a few, trapped in spaces where there was still air, were turned into jelly by the pressure of the sea as Titanic plunged to the bottom. Those people did not deserve those fates; all they were trying to do was to get from one place to another. I think they will always deserve to be given a special place in our collective memory.
 
Anyone see Jame Cammerons, 2 hour national Geo special .."Titanic,The final Word" absolutely excellent show
 
This...

isn't about those that "didn't deserve to die", but about why people are so fixated on one blundered passage, on one cold night in the North Atlantic. History is rife with people and large groups who "didn't deserve to die".  It was from your failed "bureaucrats" that ocean liner safety moved to the next level. Most safety regulations are written from a long history of lost lives; witness OSHA & MSHA. More people are fascinated about the Captain's blunder on the Titanic, its owner's brag about being "unsinkable" and the fact that it was famous as a 'class level' ship for the idle rich, than anything else. To capitalize on the memory of the Titanic going down, ignores and belies all the other great ships that gave decades of meritorious service "after".  We're not talking the Holocaust here...there's always a certain amount of eminent danger when you board an ocean liner....you just hope you have a good ship, good crew, a good captain and a structured escape plan. The Titanic lowered many lifeboats into the water with just a few people in them...your death count would be quite different if each life boat and been loaded to capacity. No one can say with certainty what happened there....


 


The fact that the <a name="start_16598.177289">Costa Concordia was run aground has absolutely nothing to do with safety equipment or a faulty ship design. Any incompetent captain can run the greatest of ships into something-enough to cause a catastrophic event.  Not that many yrs ago, a commercial ferry off of Norway couldn't get her sea doors closed properly and the whole ship went down in minutes. It was one of the worse modern maritime disasters on record, killing over 500 people almost instantly. Do we see geographic specials and movies made about that event(?)...the answer is obvious.  </a>


 


Kevin


[this post was last edited: 4/16/2012-17:03]
 
Kevin:

Titanic hit an obstacle, which breached her hull. Sank.

Costa Concordia hit an obstacle, which breached her hull. Sank.

No one is lessening any other tragedy, or dishing out any disrespect to any other occurrence, or belittling any other ship's accomplishments. This is merely the centenary of Titanic's sinking, and that is what happens to be on our minds, and as friends, we thought we'd discuss it a bit.

Sorry if that's offensive to you.
 
What.....

is "offensive" to me is the prattling on about an ill-fated ship with bad metallurgy, a 'company man' captain that housed the idle rich and because of that, it captures so much attention & imagination. Considering all the greater ships that came "after",  I consider all the hullabaloo about the Titanic insulting to maritime history. Again, this isn't about the memory of the individuals who died on the Titanic, but about the foolishness & arrogance of the people responsible for her sinking.  It's really become more of a story about the decadent rich, ship owners and bureaucrats against those who were not....in simpler words,  the rich (and what they represented) against the working crew and people in steerage.  Looking at Britain today, 'class society' did not win out or keep the Titanic afloat..


 


Kevin 
 
Kevin:

Titanic's nearly identical sister ship, Olympic, sailed for twenty-four years without tragedy, even surviving a collision that breached two of her watertight compartments - BEFORE the retrofitting that was done after the loss of Titanic.

Things happen that no one can foresee. Titanic ran into an iceberg where there wasn't supposed to be an iceberg, exactly as Costa Concordia ran into rocks where there weren't supposed to be any rocks. Neither vessel's captain had her exact position correctly determined, either - despite state-of-the-art resources being available in both instances.

Yes, hubris was involved in the loss of Titanic. Hubris is also involved in building ships that are four times as tall above the waterline as they are below, as many, including Costa Concordia, are today. Costa Concordia was the warning bell that today's profiteers are ignoring - we will one day have massive loss of life resulting from these too-tall ships. ELEVEN ships were known to have been lost to icebergs before Titanic - all in the same general area Titanic went down - and no movement of passenger lanes southward was undertaken, nor were any lifeboat regulations changed.

I understand you're unhappy about the focus Titanic is getting. But what I would suggest we all worry about is that nothing really important has changed since April 15, 1912.
 
If...

nothing has changed since 1912 as you suggest, then it would be common place today for luxury liners to go down.  Not only is it uncommon, but a HUGE media circus if anything happens to a luxury liner at sea. The possibility of disaster by your estimation  would be akin to something worse than riding on Amtrak. Instead, people did listen; many, many maritime safety laws were passed and equipment revised/modernized for the greater good of keeping people alive and rescue-able on big ships.  It's foolish to even begin to compare today's ships and their navigational/safety devices to even 40yrs ago, let alone the Titanic primitive system. Would you travel on a luxury liner today in the North Atlantic with just crew 'watching' for icebergs and telegraphing other ships if they had 'seen' any(?) of course not. 


 


I don't agree that modern luxury liners are incapable of safety measures to prevent what happened to the Titanic, or that the bureaucrats related to luxury liners are out to get us.  Are you seriously trying to maintain that in today's PC conscious societies, maritime boards and regulations are going slack and that your too-tall-above-waterline ships are all accidents waiting to happen? The only thing I'm seeing is that captains aren't the seaman of lore and are making bad decisions.... possibly because of the international standards of their training in dubious places. The seas aren't any calmer today (actually worse weather) and there's a hell of a lot more big ships on them than ever before. You should be more worried about an archaic system where a dubiously trained captain has final word over his crew & passengers.


 


Kevin 
 

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