CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS KIRBY CONVERSION

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I think what irked many of us about Mr. Keeler was...

that it seemed his first priority was to use Vacuumland to sell his product for profitable purposes. I have no idea whether his product is good or not, or whether it is worth the cost he is charging. And I imagine he feels quite proud of something he worked on. That's not the problem. The problem is seeing the citizens of Vacuumland solely as potential purchasers of his device.

Besides discussing vacs and sharing stories about our common hobby, we all use the forum as a way of easily acquiring vacs we love and parts we need. I don't think any of us intends to use the forum as way of making a financial profit. Even when I mentioned the appearance of a beautiful vintage vac on EBay, I had no connection to the seller and had no vested interest in seeing the seller make a profit. I just thought that I was doing the group a favour by shining a light on something they might have not otherwise known about.

If Mr. Keeler really was interested in enhancing the collections of our group, he could offer to send free units to any Kirby-lover who is interested.

Just my two amps worth.....
 
For Dualsanitronic

Thank you - I was beginning to believe I'm the only one reading these posts who finds the hatred and vindictiveness far out of control. It reminded me of posts in the old Vacuum Cleaner Forum before that left.

Now, I've never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the light fixture, but even I could see the initial post as shameless huckstering for Mr. Keeler's product. I had intended to post when I initially read this concerning that but the other posts had already started and, to be honest, I was fascinated to see how far this would go. I read with interest Fred Nelson's post concerning the email received from someone claiming to be Mrs. Keeler and his answer. Even he had reservations concerning what is going on. As webmaster, he made the decision to allow them to continue. I'm not sure I agree with that as the personal attacks really have no place on this forum - this has gone way off track from a discussion over the merits or defects in the collection system made by Mr. Keeler.

It has gotten to the point where I'm reading this not for information but entertainment. Wondering who would be the next to join in the "witch hunt". It does seem like there are several posting here who have the mentality of "my way or the highway". And, before you begin jumping on me, I do agree that there are several valid questions asked of Mr. Keeler which have not been answered or the answers make no sense.

However, to get back to my original point, I'm sorry I didn't take the time to post concerning what I saw as trying to sell a product here. Maybe that post would have shut down this thread and saved a lot of people anger.
 
"Overly complex Kirby....nozzle, fan, bag, motor......all them complex partz names just makes my head spin! How can a Kirby be overly complex? They've used a very similar design for decades, with the biggest changes being disposable bag systems and adding the TechDrive. And they're not stupid for buying a Kirby or a Dyson (depending on which model). Power hungry?!?! Last time I checked, the G series uses 7 amps. Most Dysons use 12 amps, but the DC24 uses 6.5 amps."

The Kirby is a complex machine from an end user standpoint. Any cleaner that requires a multi-hour in home demo, and a instruction video in addition to the manual is clearly complex!

Yes the Dyson is power hungry. Nearly double the power to do the same task as an old Eureka with a VGII could do, or dust bare floors and upholstry as well as an old Electrolux. The only benefit is it cleans just fine until you fill the bin.

Now I don't see Mr. Keeler's post as a sales pitch, it was a defense after what has already been said in the past about his device. Perhaps he thought we might be interested (not in buying, but just interested) and look at what happened.
 
Let Me Jump In Here

I welcome this dialogue. I have been hoping that the forum would evolve into a place where people can give their honest opinions without fear of nasty retribution. Glad to see some honest dialogue here. Keep it up. Lord knows I have had my challenges keeping this forum up and running in spite of some serious initial attacks. The earlier vacuum forums have gone down in a ball of flames, but this one survives. Let's keep the respectful and honest discussions going.

Fred
 
have you seen, he sells rebuilt kirbys, finished in black with the bagless feature. very nice looking, have thought about adding one to the collection. g3 and g4's. and they have an outlet for a powerhead (?????) for use in the canister mode. really, ck his various sites. joe
 
"What is original about Mr. Keelers designs, is the application. No high end, metal, fan first, side discharge, self propelled, full size cleaner has ever been marketed with such a system, and no conversion has ever been offered for mainstream consumption."

Who cares if it is "high end" or low end? (irrelevant).
Who cares if it is "metal" or plastic? (irrelevant).
Who cares if it is "side discharge" or centre discharge? (irrelevant).

The important point is that "fan first" non-cyclonic, bagless technology has been done before, and proved to be ineffective in action.
 
"Who cares if it is "high end" or low end? (irrelevant)."

A high end cleaner will outlast its competition. Just look at how many refurbished Dysons you can find on the internet, and even through Dyson itself. I'd assume you could find a horror story behind nearly every one of them, or they would have lasted with the original owner.

"Who cares if it is "metal" or plastic? (irrelevant)."

Same reason. Why do you think a lot of people buy Kirbys in the first place.

Basically what you are saying is similar to saying something like "the first power nozzle for canisters is irrelevant because it lacks beater bars, so its been outdated since 1927, and is completely irrelevant." Your ripping the entire concept over a detail. Like I said earlier, if he used Dyson style separation, people would still have a problem with it, so he can't win.
 
Lux1521

Dear God Almighty! I never mentioned bloody cylinder cleaners or power nozzles!

I was saying that he used an ancient failed technology - it's obsolete, because it was found to be inefficient. Been there, done that - period.

He used it on a Kirby - so what. He could have used it on a Sanitaire, or a Royal or a Hoover or an Oreck direct air machine. In any case, the thinking is flawed. That bagless design will strangle whichever of the cleaners' performance.
 
Its quite obvious that I was working towards an example.

What I'm really trying to get at is a bagless Kirby is not a bad concept. Does the Keeler design have problems, sure, but the concept is not without purpose, and even in its current state has its uses.
 
"...a bagless Kirby is not a bad concept."

No, that much is true. However, with direct airflow, it is a bad concept.

For a Kirby machine to become bagless, it would have to become totally redesigned and that means adopting the 'clean air' principle. Simply sticking a plastic tube and filter on the old design will not work efficiently.
 
Sad that the units are built in China-why not build them in the US or the country of consumption?Provides jobs and may save YOU the manufacturer some money--Now its expenive to ship back and forth to China.Some manufacturers are changing from having things built in China due to higher fuel cost.And they might jack up thier labor costs.However it might be interesting to get one of these things and try it and add it to the Kirby collection.For me to give an evaluation of the device-have to try it.and it is a Kirby attachment-a contriversal one-but an attachment.Might be good to top up Kirby collections.
 
Which prompts me to say...

Bagless is 'discusting'? How're those Filter Queens working out for ya?
 
I am not a big FQ fan-but have a few in my collection-the neat thing about dumping them is no filter to clean-you replace the cone "filter" on each dumping.FQ is easier than other "bagless" vacuums out there.
 
Oh yes-just to mention the Kirby "Filtrete" bags are made in China-but how long is this going to last?The Filtrete material is made in US but shipped to China to be made into the Vacuum bags-thats two trips.Since fuel costs have been rising-the bag maker may reconsider?I have been reading that Chinese factories may be wanting to raise their labor costs-If that happens will more manufacturing return to the points of use?
 
Even if manufacturing does come home, American companies are so smitten with designs and pseudo-technology from overseas that they're no longer interesteed in making things like they used to. This shows up in the vacuum industry as we have companies like Riccar and Simplicity who seem hell bent on emulating the designs of Miele with their canisters.

After having owned a few Mieles, the thrill is gone. They have expensive bags and filters, and offer 2 electric brush attachments: 1 that is too aggressive and one that is not effective enough. I wish I had something that would be more respectful of my carpets and rugs like an older Lux power nozzle or a Hoover with a steel brushroll just like in the good old days.
 
I own a Keeler Bagless Conversion...

First of all, I have some knowledge of vacuums. I was a Rainbow distributor, a Lux branch manager the last 4 years they were still the old American Electrolux corp. To my knowledge I am the only one ever invited to address the engineering team at Electrolux, which I did in 2000 at the behest of James McCain, chief of operations. I sold Kirbys several times, H I, G4, Ultimate and Diamond, won a few trips, etc.

I have met Jim and his wife Judy (and all 5 canine children) I was going to buy their vac shop in Mt Juliet, TN, but was unable to sell my home in time to do so. They are hospitable, wonderful people.

I have used the bagless conversion on my G4 for seven months, and it does indeed work extremely well. It is easy to tell when the unit has lost sufficient cleaning power to necessitate emptying/cleaning:

the Kirby bagless picks the carpet up with the characteristic 'buzz' usually one notch higher than with the bag. When it can not hold on to the carpet with normal movement at the height adjustment one would normally use with the bag, then it is time to dump the container and clean the filter.

I supplement my income by cleaning for several affluent clients, all of whom are multiple pet owners. I would have a large expenditure on Kirby bags without the bagless conversion. Two of my clients have remarked they like seeing me enter with the clean dirt canister because they can see that I am not dragging someone else's dirt into their home. (My clients are anally retentive, and I charge accordingly. The Kirby is shined before each cleaning job)

Where the bagless conversion really shines is pet hair and sand. Carpet fresh? Not so much. The filter does clog very quickly with fine powder. When I vacuum upholstery and mattresses I am more likely to use the bag. Carpet, bare floors and stairs with the hand portable, the bagless unit for sure.

As for the numbers and statistics: "It is aerodynamically impossible for a bumblebee to fly, given its body mass and proportionally too small wings. The bumblebee doesn't know this and happily flies anyway." The Keeler Kirby bagless conversion works, I know it does and my clients do too.

As any engineer worth his (or her) salt can tell you, some things which are possible/impossible on paper turn out the complete opposite of what "must" be true. The Keeler Kirby bagless conversion works.

Galileo was put to death for stating what we now know to be obvious: the earth is not the center of the universe, and it revolves around the sun. All great truths begin as heresies. The Keeler Kirby bagless conversion works.

And while the bagless unit offends the aesthetic sensibilities of some, it certainly is not on a par with attaching arms to the Venus De Milo. If you think that it is you need to stop sleeping with your Kirby and get a life! It is just an adaptaion of an existing product for particular uses. No one is saying it can, or should totally replace the bag. I also have a cloth bag on a mini emptor, which I use when I have carpet fresh to dig out. It clogs the paper bags too quickly. So, paper bags, cloth bag, bagless canister. I use whatever the situation calls for. But, for the record, the Keeler bgaless conversion does work. It does clog, true, but it still has enough useful cleaning time before it clogs to make it a very useful, practical, thrify option.

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free, but that doesn't mean it's not going to piss you off first"

There are still people who belive the earth is flat, too. You can say what you want, but I and at least 115 other Kirby owners know the truth: the Keeler Kirby bagless conversion works.


Peace,

Trebor
 
Don't remember what thread it was on has anyone tried the "Forever" bags for Kirbys and other vacuums-this could be an alternative to the Keeler unit-and you can keep the orig bag on your Kirby.
 
Oh yeah, I remember hearing about those on this site. I knew about them before that. Yeah, their made by this guy on youtube that owns a vacuum shop. I was interested in buying some, but I didn't get one. It's a gray cloth bag that you can open like a hoover elite's outer bag and dump out the dust. But you still keep the original outer bag. Here is a link to them.


http://shop.haleysvac.com/Forever-Vacuum-Bags_c2.htm
 
I have just been laughing and laughing through-out this whole thread!


this guy realy thinks hes done something usefull


Charlie
 
Hey, just want to know whether anyone has ACTUALLY seen Keeler's self propelled Kirby? Any pictures? Is there even any evidence it ever existed? Although he said he sold the self propelled conversion all throughout the USA how come no one here has ever had one or even seen one? To be honest, I think it sounds like some egotistical Bull shit. But I'd love to be proven wrong, Keeler's supposed pre-tech drive sounds mighty interesting!
 
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