Cleaning power of a Miele?

[vegassucks]

Kirbylux 77

Sebo D4 is a powerful machine, I am not a fan of their power head and Sebo is the worst for filteration, and I do mean the worst of the elite brands. Sebo are great for People who do not take care of stuff like house keepers, because they are well built. Buying a floor model from a dealer or closeout from a dealer with warranty is a better bet.

 

[sebo_fan]

What a load of rubbish. As usual vegassucks, no evidence, just your thoughts. No chance for anyone else to have an opinion. D series was rated high for filtration when it was tested by quite a lot of organisations that you probably don't trust.

Have a look at the You Tube video of the D4, you'll see a particulate air test meter done on the D4 and it drops to zero. 2mins 54 towards the end of the video. Real evidence.

And YOUR link doesn't appear to work.

 

[vegassucks]

Sebo fan

No, it is not just my opinion, read the chart. I was surprised at how poorly the X4 did. The Sebo D4 is a nice machine, I just am not a fan of their power head. I owned a Felix for 5 years, bullet proof, I am just not a fan Sebo fan. The Sebo D4 also come in at 16 pounds, That is too heavy compared to the Miele S8 at 12 pounds.

 

[vacuumfreeeke]

I think the suction and airflow of my Miele canister are great, but the power nozzle is weak... I've got the SEB-217. It was does a good job on low pile carpet which it was made for, but you really need the big daddy power nozzle for good grooming or anything more plush.

The Miele upright is a true power house, but there are people who complain of quality or weight issues.... I'm still enthralled with mine.

 

[vegassucks]

Power heads

Agreed the seb-217 is weak, that's why I went with the Seb-228, you can always upgrade. No vacuum is perfect and if you own a Miele you cannot throw it into the back of a pickup truck like a Eureka or Sebo X4, it will not hold up. Would your try off roading in a Bentley?

 

[eurekaprince]

Call me a "fool" if you want, but I trust the lab results of Consumer Reports more than the information provided by a salesperson at a vacuum dealer or a retail outlet. I know I can trust the test results to help me decide on a product without wasting too much of my money or valuable time.

Like in most things in life, you need to use your wisdom to interpret test results. I may choose a Miele Olympus S2120 as a companion vac to an upright because I don't care how poorly it performs on carpet. This particular vac ends up mid-table in the ranking of canisters because of mediocre results in the carpet cleaning tests. But if you use the convenient "Filtering" feature on the CR website, you can choose the test results that are important to you and come up with the most appropriate vac for your needs. That, along with brand reliability data, should help you make an informed decision without having to suffer through the misinformation often provided by those most interested in selling you their most expensive machine.

Since I prefer to have an upright for carpets and a canister to clean everything else, my reading of the current test results in Consumer Reports results in the following effective pair of vacs: the Hoover Platinum Bagged Upright (without the companion mini canister to save money) plus the Miele Olympus canister for everything else. Grand Total cost = not more than $600 for a great performing, easy to use pair of vacs.

Over the 30 years in which I have used Consumer Reports to buy everything from toothpaste to cars, they have rarely steered me wrong.

Just my humble opinion.....

 

[vegassucks]

For the foolish

For those who need a magazine to tell them what to think, here is a much better guide to go with. Remember, they do not live with these vacuums and only test them and on to toaster ovens and bicycle tires.

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/product-reviews/appliances/vacuum-cleaner-reviews/

 

[tolivac]

Sears Kenmore vacs vrs Miele-no contest CU thinks the Sears will perform as well-but the big diffrence is build quality.The Sears machine has poor quality plastic-thin,warps and bends-breaks easily.And the Sears machine is not gasket sealed like the Miele.The plastic material on the Miele is stronger,thicker,heavier than the Sears.And the Miele has gaskets on all of its body panels.The Miele dealer here in Greenville has a couple of Sears machines traded in for the Miele after customers were shown the differences.The filters on the Miele are better-and better sealed so there is no dust leakage around them.I have seen for myself on the particle tester-the Miele will blow zero while the Sears does not.So don't beleive everything CU says.Their product test quality and quantity has gone down over the years.They are a non profit company so they are limited in cost for testing and procuring items to test-and the deal of they will test vacuums one day and blenders the next.The testing isn't as thorough as it used to be.Oh yes-another thing-the motor compartment of a Miele that has been used(Mikes shop Miele vacs) are clean after heavy use-the Sears bag chamber,motor chambers are FILTHY after the machine has had hard use.Explains the high particle count from the Sears.

 

[tolivac]

Filtration of Sebo vacuums-The dealer in Greenville besides Miele also carrys Sebo- A Sebo vacuum-including the X4 blows zero on the particle counter like Miele.Same with the Sebo canisters-any model.They have as good of filtration as the Miele.

 

[jade_angel]

My experience with CR's vacuum ratings is that they have a tendency to take a dim view of models with a high price tag unless they perform drastically better than cheaper models. They don't much seem to factor build quality into it.

I'd bet that when new and in perfect condition, a Kenmore and a Miele of similar "tiers" (say, take the TOL from both) would perform quite similarly. Give it five years of less-than-perfect (but not horrible) maintenance, though, and I'll bet the Kenmore wouldn't hold up nearly as well.

As for buying second-hand, I'll cheerfully do it if the price is right. I'd buy a Tristar or a Filter Queen second-hand; there's not a horribly huge amount to go wrong on either one and they're straightforward to fix, plus massively expensive new. A Miele or a Riccar I'd think twice about, and a Panasonic? Fahgeddaboudit, unless the price is a bloody steal.

If you're looking to buy something interesting new, might I suggest a Fairfax? I don't know how well they clean (seems to me their filtering arrangement might clog up a lot faster than an FQ or TS would), but they're unique, classic, and still being made. IIRC they also come with a Eureka-built power nozzle that's one of the better ones out there.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, what is it vegassucks? You don't like Consumer Reports yet you believe in charts? Mmm something smells there...Well said Eureakaprince - whilst I don't trust in everything I read from CR, I've certainly found similar findings from my own ownership to their reports. They don't always get things right but then neither does Which, the UK testing organisation - but some things are worth learning about from reading those reports.

I THINK that when it comes to real performance from REAL OWNERSHIP that only you can impart the honest truth about filtration in your experience for others. Product reviews and worded content don't really hold much of a candle to many let alone charts and lists of statistical data, even if I write some award winning reviews online to support the purchases I've made - and from the thoroughness of my reviews I sometimes get a free large appliance like a washing machine!

You moan that the SEBO is heavier than the S8. Well that's because it comes with a much bigger amount of cord - 12 metres on the SEBO, 6.5 metres on the Miele S8 - that's double the amount and for the cost price that both sell at, I'd sacrifice the LED lights on the S8 for a decent amount of cord. The hose on the D4 is also slightly longer than the one on the Miele, so again you're getting bigger everything really on that vacuum.

 

[ralph123]

Vegassucks,

You have got to be kidding. Consumer Reports test results are accurate and reproducible. I completely trust their carpet cleaning and bare floor tests, and the original question was about raw cleaning power. They provide information to help you make a decision, they certainly don't tell you what to buy. You have to use your brain and interpret the results to choose what is appropriate for you. Obviously you have to read some of the details on how the tests are conducted to decide if they are appropriate for your situation or can be generalized to your situation. For example, they don't do specialized tests to see how the vacuums deal with specific allergens.

The top of the line Kenmore canisters are very good cleaners that are presumably still made by Panasonic. It seems you were just singing the praises of Panasonic on a different thread.

So you really believe results from Good Housekeeping - a magazine that sells advertising to the companies whose products it reviews?

 

[vegassucks]

Consumer Reports

Anyone who believes Kenmore is a better vacuum than a Sebo or Miele has zero ideas of what a Great vacuum is. Just like the auto magazines that say Kia is equal to Honda. Will they pay you the 25% more of depreciation when you go to sell your Kia? No, just like when these car magazines rate a Honda Hybrid high. They are not there when your $4k battery goes bad or to explain why ur not getting anywhere near the 50 mpg gallon their article claimed you would.

I also read Consumer Reports because sometime they bring out a factor you should consider but they are nothing more than an opinion like the ones in this forum. A % of the People in this forum will agree with me and a few will disagree. I do know that Kenmore vacuums sell for 25% of their retail value within months of purchase and are cheaply made. Find an S8,or Sebo X4 for 25% of retail, Good Luck because smart people know better.

Panasonic makes their own high end vacuums to a higher standard than the Kenmore units. When Panasonic builds a vacuum for Sears, Sears is trying to come in at a certain price point so sell in volume. They do not say build the best vacuum, price no object. They say build the best vacuum we can purchase from you for x dollars and still make a few dollars Selling at y dollars.

 

[dysonman1]

You cannot, cannot, cannot trust a word from Communist Reports.

I have a copy of every vacuum issue they've ever done.

Did you know that in December, 1936, they rated the wonderful, flawless Hoover 150 (Hoover's finest machine ever) at the BOTTOM of the ratings. Then, those morons at CR had the nerve (and stupidity) to rate the twin-motor Air-Way Super Chief "Not acceptable" because (according to CR) the motors would be short lived. I don't know of any Air-Way's from the 1930's that don't run.

In every decade room of the Museum, I have a copy of the Communist Reports articles for the vacuums of those years. I can proudly turn to their 'reports' and prove every single one of them WRONG.

There was only ONE time that history agrees with CR. That was the 1970 report that rated the Electrolux 1205 the top vacuum. If you look at the ranking of the report for all the vacuums, then look at all the actual vacuums (we have them in the Museum) it's clear that once and once only, they did "get it right".

I'm sorry to be so stern about them, but I can't stand those lying bastards. The only good thing about their 'ratings' is they give prices. I often reread the 'reports' from the 1940's and 1950's so I can give accurate pricing information as I give tours through the Museum.

Anyone who bases a purchasing decision on CR, deserves the screwing they're going to get by doing so.

History constantly proves them WRONG.

 

[sebo_fan]

It is difficult to relay comparisons between a car and a vacuum cleaner. Particularly for something seen as an investment and recouping a good price second hand. Kia in the UK are doing exceptionally well - Honda is too premium, too expensive - even their Civic, CRV and Jazz are made in the UK - they don't sell as well nationally as Kia.

Miele and SEBO retain their value well on UK auction sites compared to other brands. The only models that Panasonic retain their value from are the "vintage" models. They don't generally hold their value well with their current ranges and EBAY UK are usually good places to get a cheaper deal on the list prices of Panasonic vacuums in the shops.

Yet again though, I say as a private consumer and not as a retailer or anyone who works in the industry, it is impossible to go through every report that a testing organisation has done and either agree or disagree UNLESS you are a vacuum cleaner collector! We are two very different bodies of people. I don't necessarily go for everything that every testing company promotes - but as others have said, CR and other companies CAN benefit purchase decisions.

Whereas we, as collectors may disagree about a particular function that hasn't been highlighted or thoroughly tested won't matter to Joe Public. As long as the machine picks up is just the requirement of what a vacuum cleaner SHOULD do.

 

[ralph123]

Dysonman - while I certainly respect your candid opinion regarding CR, and I agree with you regarding overall ratings, I do trust some of their individual test results. You've certainly done your share of testing vacuums and have access to lab results at Tacony. So in your opinion, is there anything special about the cleaning power of Miele canister vacuums?

In general I trust CR's carpet cleaning scores; however, there is one vacuum whose ratings in CR I have never trusted, and that is the amazing Rainbow. I'm not convinced that they adjust properly for the water containment system. Sure there have been major flaws in power nozzle design of the Rainbow (e.g. the belt in the middle with a 1.5 inch gap between the openings) In the current online ratings, the list price of the Rainbow is $1350 (about half the price I was quoted). In the lows it says: "This model received only a good blob for cleaning carpets and lacks a retractable cord. It is tough to carry due to the water weight. The power head is an optional accessory."

Note that they say the "power head is an optional accessory" - and they don't mention whether the carpet tests were carried out with the optional power head. Yet the Rainbow is pictured with the power nozzle. They also tested some other canisters that don't come with power nozzles.

 

[vegassucks]

Ralph123

If you cannot trust CR rating on the Rainbow, why would you trust them on others? I look at the overall recommendation on many products by CR and they are the worst at getting it even close to right. The Miele S7 is so highly rated yet nobody tells you about how heavy they truly are or can explain why there so many broken units on ebay from a vacuum with a 20 year life expectancy? The Miele canister with an Seb-228 power head is such a precision cleaning machine, no bulky cheaply made Kenmore comes close accept for on the price to competing.

 

[joshdonnell]

Ralph

I would like to add something . The Rexair has redesigned the power nozzel , So theres no more belt in the center. And yet the Rainbow might not have the automatic cord rewind , but thats for a reason . So that's one les thing to go wrong. In my opinion i believe the Rainbow does filter very well. But we must remember that no vacuum cleaner is perfect. Not even a Miele or a Sebo or any vacuum brand.

 

[vegassucks]

Joshdonnell

I 100% agree with joshdonnell