hi-loswitch98
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Hopefully my local stores safe then, car park right next to it & the towns main supply of electrical, furniture & toys etc. unless you go online.
Argos Getting Ready for New EU Regulations
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sebo_fan
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I still like Argos - oh you moan about the high prices - but they also price slash too - which not many online sellers do. We should be lucky that they sell Miele - some other franchises don't stock as many as Argos do, let alone current models right across the range.
Unlike independent retailers near me, Argos offer a good rate and a good deal - delivery charges are reasonably low and there's a good back up service, only twice of which I have used in my lifetime - and I relied heavily on Argos when I was a student, not just buying their budget ranges but reasonable stuff that was usually over priced (and still can be) compared to other franchises.
John Lewis spring to mind here, as do House of Frasers - Pyrex for example is cheaper at Argos than anywhere else, but that's because like almost everything, they buy in larger amounts and have far more branches than both JL and House of Frasers.
Argos were also first (and one of few) franchises to sell generic but good quality vacuum cleaner accessories such as mini turbo brushes (Wessel Werk designs) as well as aftermarket tools. They may not do this now, but they may well appear to sell them in the future - I live in hope.
Unlike independent retailers near me, Argos offer a good rate and a good deal - delivery charges are reasonably low and there's a good back up service, only twice of which I have used in my lifetime - and I relied heavily on Argos when I was a student, not just buying their budget ranges but reasonable stuff that was usually over priced (and still can be) compared to other franchises.
John Lewis spring to mind here, as do House of Frasers - Pyrex for example is cheaper at Argos than anywhere else, but that's because like almost everything, they buy in larger amounts and have far more branches than both JL and House of Frasers.
Argos were also first (and one of few) franchises to sell generic but good quality vacuum cleaner accessories such as mini turbo brushes (Wessel Werk designs) as well as aftermarket tools. They may not do this now, but they may well appear to sell them in the future - I live in hope.
madabouthoovers
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As far as I'm concerned the prices Argos charge for their Miele cleaners are way higher than the likes of Freenet Electrical, and Argos stores don't actually physically stock most Mieles either, you have to order them online and wait for delivery. So if I have to order online and wait for delivery why should I pay high prices from Argos or John Lewis when Freenet sells the exact same items for a lot less. Its about time the independent retailers started biting back at the likes of Argos, John Lewis and Currys, and they will win the custom.
Obviously there will be people prepared to pay through their noses for the same products they could get cheaper, but people are more savvy with their money now, and it pays to shop around the internet for the best deals.
Argos may be cheap for some items yes, I totally agree, but its usually the cheaply made stuff that's mass produced 2 a penny in China, and not everyone wants these items.
Obviously there will be people prepared to pay through their noses for the same products they could get cheaper, but people are more savvy with their money now, and it pays to shop around the internet for the best deals.
Argos may be cheap for some items yes, I totally agree, but its usually the cheaply made stuff that's mass produced 2 a penny in China, and not everyone wants these items.
vintagerepairer
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The fact that Argos are pricing themseleves out of the market for stock which has to ordered anyway would indicate a reluctance on the part of Argos to actually want to sell that product in the first instance. There could be all number of reasons for displaying the products, not least the fact that Meile will be paying a small fourtune to have their advert in the Argos book.
This is where retailing works in reverse. Under normal circumstances, chain stores like Argos buy stock from a manufcaturer or supplier for £X and then sell it to the public for £Y. In doing so, they make a % profit. However, for every sale of product A, it is a none-sale of product B, C, and D.
Product A may have a larger retail price than product D, but that by no means equals a higher profit margin. The profit is of course the difference between price £X and price £Y, once all expenses have been taken out.
So, in the case of Miele vacuum cleaners, it could well be that Argos would rather sell other, cheaper cleaners, as profit margins may be greater. But if Miele are willing to pay Argos a vast amount of money to advertise in their book and on their website, Argos could well stand to make far more profit from that arrangement than they might by selling a cleaner itself.
Thus, the whole idea that Argos "sell" Meile cleaners to make money in the usual way could well be a white-elephant in the sense that the retail price is too high and encourages consumers to shop elsewhere. Argos make money from Meile by using their book as little more than an advertising medium. Meile get the sale from which ever retailer it is that the customer chooses to use. It's a concept which is incredily hard to understand if one has not been involved in the retail business, but not everything you see on sale is actually there to be actively promoted.
This is where retailing works in reverse. Under normal circumstances, chain stores like Argos buy stock from a manufcaturer or supplier for £X and then sell it to the public for £Y. In doing so, they make a % profit. However, for every sale of product A, it is a none-sale of product B, C, and D.
Product A may have a larger retail price than product D, but that by no means equals a higher profit margin. The profit is of course the difference between price £X and price £Y, once all expenses have been taken out.
So, in the case of Miele vacuum cleaners, it could well be that Argos would rather sell other, cheaper cleaners, as profit margins may be greater. But if Miele are willing to pay Argos a vast amount of money to advertise in their book and on their website, Argos could well stand to make far more profit from that arrangement than they might by selling a cleaner itself.
Thus, the whole idea that Argos "sell" Meile cleaners to make money in the usual way could well be a white-elephant in the sense that the retail price is too high and encourages consumers to shop elsewhere. Argos make money from Meile by using their book as little more than an advertising medium. Meile get the sale from which ever retailer it is that the customer chooses to use. It's a concept which is incredily hard to understand if one has not been involved in the retail business, but not everything you see on sale is actually there to be actively promoted.
madabouthoovers
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Nice explanation Benny - it was something I found hard to understand, how the likes of Freenet Electrical could be selling a Miele cleaner up to £40 odd cheaper than Argos in some instances, and selling SEBO cleaners up to £50 cheaper than John Lewis. Freenet would not be selling these machines at the prices they do if they are losing money on them surely? I think John Lewis can get away with charging more than other retailers due to their reputation and "snob value", but for Argos to be charging £40 more than the competition for the same items is just crazy.
I get the feeling that sometimes there may be backhanders involved, like Dyson and Vax may be paying Argos a premium to overprice Miele's products and also not hold them in stock, so that people buy Dyson or Vax machines instead.
I get the feeling that sometimes there may be backhanders involved, like Dyson and Vax may be paying Argos a premium to overprice Miele's products and also not hold them in stock, so that people buy Dyson or Vax machines instead.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Thank you
for your kind words.
It's like this really; Suppose you are a farmer and I am a retailer. You sell me eggs for 50p per dozen and I sell them onto to the customer for 75p. I make a 50% profit before expenses are taken out.
Along comes Sebo_fan and he sells me his premium eggs for £1 per dozen. Like all products there is a limit to what customers will pay, and in this instance my customers won't pay more than £1.25. If I sell his eggs, I make only 25% profit.
So, I have two choices; either I stock everything and hope for the best, or I activley promote my cheaper eggs.
But then Sebo_fan comes up with a new plan! He will still sell me premium eggs for £1 a dozen should I wish to buy them, but he wants to pay me to advertise his eggs in my magazine because my magazine is to be found on coffee tables up & down the country. He suggests that I price his eggs at £1.75 per dozen and order them as & when I make a sale, knowing that I will sell very few, but in doing so I will direct the customer to another retailer who he supplies.
The money he pays me for doing this is worth more than any profit I could make on his eggs, and in doing so, I have virtually no overheads involved as there is no physical stock to worry about. Nor do I have to worry about returns and customer complaints. So it's win-win.
Where this rather odd scenario becomes a lose-lose is when a customer wants several items from one place; by directing the customer to a competitor to buy his premium eggs, I risk losing out on the sale of his apples, cheese, and bread as well. But these are low-price goods; if you think about it with Argos, the customer is unlikely to be buy more than one major appliance at a time, and not all retailers sell the same sorts of product.
Argos -as you know- sell such a wide variety of goods. So, lets say someone wanted a Meile vacuum cleaner and a board game; they won't get both at the likes of Freenet of course, so the customer will still buy certain items from Argos as likely as not.
for your kind words.
It's like this really; Suppose you are a farmer and I am a retailer. You sell me eggs for 50p per dozen and I sell them onto to the customer for 75p. I make a 50% profit before expenses are taken out.
Along comes Sebo_fan and he sells me his premium eggs for £1 per dozen. Like all products there is a limit to what customers will pay, and in this instance my customers won't pay more than £1.25. If I sell his eggs, I make only 25% profit.
So, I have two choices; either I stock everything and hope for the best, or I activley promote my cheaper eggs.
But then Sebo_fan comes up with a new plan! He will still sell me premium eggs for £1 a dozen should I wish to buy them, but he wants to pay me to advertise his eggs in my magazine because my magazine is to be found on coffee tables up & down the country. He suggests that I price his eggs at £1.75 per dozen and order them as & when I make a sale, knowing that I will sell very few, but in doing so I will direct the customer to another retailer who he supplies.
The money he pays me for doing this is worth more than any profit I could make on his eggs, and in doing so, I have virtually no overheads involved as there is no physical stock to worry about. Nor do I have to worry about returns and customer complaints. So it's win-win.
Where this rather odd scenario becomes a lose-lose is when a customer wants several items from one place; by directing the customer to a competitor to buy his premium eggs, I risk losing out on the sale of his apples, cheese, and bread as well. But these are low-price goods; if you think about it with Argos, the customer is unlikely to be buy more than one major appliance at a time, and not all retailers sell the same sorts of product.
Argos -as you know- sell such a wide variety of goods. So, lets say someone wanted a Meile vacuum cleaner and a board game; they won't get both at the likes of Freenet of course, so the customer will still buy certain items from Argos as likely as not.
madabouthoovers
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But why would you as the retailer direct the customer to the competitor who sold the premium product for a cheaper price?
For instance, If I went to Argos to buy a cleaner, would they really be directing me to Freenet to buy a Miele vacuum?
I suppose it works because the customer is being shown Miele's products in the Argos website, but then has the choice to look around the net for a cheaper price on said machine.
Indeed, retail works in very strange ways, and Argos is cheaper than Freenet for Henrys, so could Numatic be paying Freenet to advertise their products, even though Freenet are more expensive and never hold many Numatics in stock, so that people buy a Henry elsewhere. This is the reverse of the Miele price syndrome.
For instance, If I went to Argos to buy a cleaner, would they really be directing me to Freenet to buy a Miele vacuum?
I suppose it works because the customer is being shown Miele's products in the Argos website, but then has the choice to look around the net for a cheaper price on said machine.
Indeed, retail works in very strange ways, and Argos is cheaper than Freenet for Henrys, so could Numatic be paying Freenet to advertise their products, even though Freenet are more expensive and never hold many Numatics in stock, so that people buy a Henry elsewhere. This is the reverse of the Miele price syndrome.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
"But why would you as the retailer direct the customer to the competitor who sold the premium product for a cheaper price?"
Well, because it may be more cost-effective for the retailer to lose the entire sale, if it is that they cannot convert the customer into buying something cheaper which has a greater profit margin. In this instance, Meile have paid Argos to advertise their cleaners and this fee will be going a long, long way to compensate for the lost sales. Indeed I expect Argos make far more from it.
You could say Argos sells to two markets; they sell goods to customers, and advertising space to manufacturers.
Well, because it may be more cost-effective for the retailer to lose the entire sale, if it is that they cannot convert the customer into buying something cheaper which has a greater profit margin. In this instance, Meile have paid Argos to advertise their cleaners and this fee will be going a long, long way to compensate for the lost sales. Indeed I expect Argos make far more from it.
You could say Argos sells to two markets; they sell goods to customers, and advertising space to manufacturers.
sensotronic
Well-known member
Here's a recent article about Argos. The catalogue will be staying, although in a slimmed down form. I have a few older Argos catalogues and they are at least half the thickness of the later ones.
I believe the catalogue will go eventually as more people look at the product range online, but there are still people who don't use the internet and rely on having the catalogue to select their goods.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...al-has-it-leading-the-digital-revolution.html
I believe the catalogue will go eventually as more people look at the product range online, but there are still people who don't use the internet and rely on having the catalogue to select their goods.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...al-has-it-leading-the-digital-revolution.html
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
That was an interesting read about Argos, thank you. I liked the comments, especially this one:
"Ive walked in and out of a John Lewis in 20 mins..never went back. It's a dull, boring store, for dull boring middle class people, who wouldn't know real style if it came up and bit them.
John Lewis is the most Bland and Boring store i've ever walked into. Its like an Ikea but for old farts with no taste. Cant see the appeal.
I simply found nothing I particulary wanted to buy. Awful store that seems to live on hype by people who should try better."
"Ive walked in and out of a John Lewis in 20 mins..never went back. It's a dull, boring store, for dull boring middle class people, who wouldn't know real style if it came up and bit them.
John Lewis is the most Bland and Boring store i've ever walked into. Its like an Ikea but for old farts with no taste. Cant see the appeal.
I simply found nothing I particulary wanted to buy. Awful store that seems to live on hype by people who should try better."
spiraclean
Well-known member
That did make me chuckle as well. The commenter obviously has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, yet what he says isn't entirely untrue either. A good friend of mine is a merchandiser for JL, and some of the customer stories he tells me are ridiculous.
Anyway: Argos. It's true that some of the stores are looking a little tired. The fit-out is obviously done on the cheap, which is why it soon appears rough around the edges, and stacking product on the shop floor in boxes makes the place look like a cash and carry. I understand that it is done to encourage impulse buys - you can take the item straight to the till, rather than selecting it from the catalogue and waiting at the collection point - but the stores did look much neater when they had a limited number of items on display with the actual stock being held behind the scenes.
They have to be doing something right however, because the two branches near me are always packed. Even when busy, they keep things moving along at a steady pace and by the time you've paid and collected you can be in and out within ten minutes. It's not comparable to a fancy department store by any means, but then it was never supposed to be. People don't go to Argos to be fawned over, they go there to quickly pick up the item they need without having to go through the usual sales rigmarole.
With regard to the stock situation, I've always personally felt that the items available for collection or delivery at a later date are an addition to the core range held in stock at each store. The alternative would be to not offer those products at all, which would severely limit the choices available to those who don't necessarily need it that very same day. Probably not so much an issue if your nearest branch is a big one like Thurrock, but it would be a bit of a bummer for those with a smaller, remote branch like Stornoway!
Anyway: Argos. It's true that some of the stores are looking a little tired. The fit-out is obviously done on the cheap, which is why it soon appears rough around the edges, and stacking product on the shop floor in boxes makes the place look like a cash and carry. I understand that it is done to encourage impulse buys - you can take the item straight to the till, rather than selecting it from the catalogue and waiting at the collection point - but the stores did look much neater when they had a limited number of items on display with the actual stock being held behind the scenes.
They have to be doing something right however, because the two branches near me are always packed. Even when busy, they keep things moving along at a steady pace and by the time you've paid and collected you can be in and out within ten minutes. It's not comparable to a fancy department store by any means, but then it was never supposed to be. People don't go to Argos to be fawned over, they go there to quickly pick up the item they need without having to go through the usual sales rigmarole.
With regard to the stock situation, I've always personally felt that the items available for collection or delivery at a later date are an addition to the core range held in stock at each store. The alternative would be to not offer those products at all, which would severely limit the choices available to those who don't necessarily need it that very same day. Probably not so much an issue if your nearest branch is a big one like Thurrock, but it would be a bit of a bummer for those with a smaller, remote branch like Stornoway!
hoovermatic
Member
I like John Lewis
spiraclean
Well-known member
Don't get me wrong, I like them too for certain things. The comments on the Mail article are obviously a sweeping statement (no surprise there) and tar all JL customers with the same brush. I think he could have done with using the word "some" when referring to their clientele, and maybe rounded the edges a bit. Even then it's guaranteed to offend someone, which was probably the intention all along. The blatant snarkiness, with no attempt at even thinly veiling it, is what made me laugh in the first place.
This does however remind me of a department store I used to work for, which often attracted a certain type of customer who would only buy their electricals from us, because it wouldn't be seen as "fitting" for them to shop at Currys or Comet. Very nice and all that, but really we used to get all sorts in. For every customer who insisted on a Miele and paid for it on their platinum card, there were ten others who were buying an Indesit on credit and collecting it themselves from the warehouse round the back. I'm assuming the same applies at John Lewis too.
This does however remind me of a department store I used to work for, which often attracted a certain type of customer who would only buy their electricals from us, because it wouldn't be seen as "fitting" for them to shop at Currys or Comet. Very nice and all that, but really we used to get all sorts in. For every customer who insisted on a Miele and paid for it on their platinum card, there were ten others who were buying an Indesit on credit and collecting it themselves from the warehouse round the back. I'm assuming the same applies at John Lewis too.
sebo_fan
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Dont forget though how, many franchises do Freenet have in comparison to Argos? You simply can't compare a national retailer like Argos with an independent.
madabouthoovers
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I'm not bothered sebo_fan. I don't care how many franchises it has, if the prices are cheaper I will buy from Freenet. They sell what I want, and at a price I want to pay, which Argos don't, and nor do John Lewis.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Well, for me stuck in Scotland others who might not be able to get machines delivered from Freenet, there's Argos.
hi-loswitch98
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I hope Argos dosen't become online only, I love going into the store & checking stock then waiting for collection. My local store had a refit a few years ago, it was a completely different place by the time it was finished, lot more modern. Lovely & helpful staff, in mine anyway.
However, the store in the nearby town hasn't had a refit since 1999, it's old, tired, outdated & looks like a cash & carry, with the staff to match.
However, the store in the nearby town hasn't had a refit since 1999, it's old, tired, outdated & looks like a cash & carry, with the staff to match.
madabouthoovers
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Don't forget, HiLo, - some of Argos's staff are unpaid and have to be there as a part of receiving their benefits by the jobcentre (Workfare), or they are young people on unpaid "work experience" so its little wonder they don't really want to give their best to Argos and its customers.
[this post was last edited: 5/14/2014-17:58]
[this post was last edited: 5/14/2014-17:58]
hi-loswitch98
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The local stores staff are nice. I think it's just the area in the other town.
vintagerepairer
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To be picky...
"many of Argos's staff are unpaid and have to be there as a part of receiving their benefits by the jobcentre"
'Many' is not a word which is easily quantifiable, nor is "good deal", a phrase I tend to use a good deal of the time. Like then. But it means very little, it merely suggests perhaps a disproportionate quantity. Thus I for one am not going to assume that "many" means "practically all" and then again, It's not everyone who things workfare is wrong.
I doubt there are franchises of Freenet, if anything they are more likely to be a chain if there is more than one of them, but of course few retailers are franchisees, they are chains, like Currys, Argos, Asda, and so on. Franchisees are typically aimed at the service industry.
Spiraclean - I liked your anecdote about the department store customers. I married a woman who was House of Fraser mad. If it wasn't from there, she didn't want to know, and for her ridiculous snobbery she actually worked in the buying office at Great Universal Stores for a good deal of time. But Argos was a no-no as it lacked finesse and style, and the mere fact it had a catalogue meant she associated it with the "club book" organisations she worked for.
"many of Argos's staff are unpaid and have to be there as a part of receiving their benefits by the jobcentre"
'Many' is not a word which is easily quantifiable, nor is "good deal", a phrase I tend to use a good deal of the time. Like then. But it means very little, it merely suggests perhaps a disproportionate quantity. Thus I for one am not going to assume that "many" means "practically all" and then again, It's not everyone who things workfare is wrong.
I doubt there are franchises of Freenet, if anything they are more likely to be a chain if there is more than one of them, but of course few retailers are franchisees, they are chains, like Currys, Argos, Asda, and so on. Franchisees are typically aimed at the service industry.
Spiraclean - I liked your anecdote about the department store customers. I married a woman who was House of Fraser mad. If it wasn't from there, she didn't want to know, and for her ridiculous snobbery she actually worked in the buying office at Great Universal Stores for a good deal of time. But Argos was a no-no as it lacked finesse and style, and the mere fact it had a catalogue meant she associated it with the "club book" organisations she worked for.
