American vs. Foreign Canisters.

[vintagerepairer]

It is a vacuum cleaner being used for it's intended purpose, in a commercial setting. Do you honestly think the cleaner cares about the motor getting that 'bad'? Linda, that's the girl who comes to clean for me, her cleaners are there to be used and use them she does. Of the four I recently repaired for her (well three were repairable), all looked at bit shabby on the outside, and two didn't sound so good when running, but all were spotlessly clean inside, with clean filters. In a commercial setting, I doubt the cleaner would have the time or interest to keep the inside clean. Of the commercially-used cleaners I've had bought to the shop, most were rather unkempt inside.

 

[twocvbloke]

Oh I know, society today is more interested in things being cheap and disposable, whether it's a toothbrush or a car... :&#92

I'm at the other end of the spectrum, I prefer to look after the machines I like, both inside and out, especially the motors, there's nothing worse than the smell from a burnt out motor (okay, I've not properly burnt out a vacuum motor to date, only burning out DC motors like my old cordless drill, screwdriver, fans and other things I've seized up or overvolted intentionally), and the noise bad bearings make really gets to me, regardless of brand... :S

Speaking of using Henries commercially, there was a chimney sweep doing a job in the village where my uncles live, and I noticed he had a pair of Henries for soot cleaning, now I don't know how fine Numatic's HEPA filters are, but I'm pretty sure they don't cover soot, I certainly wouldn't want to be breathing what is coming out of Henry's backside when they're picking up soot... :S

Heck, I wouldn't want to breathe the exhaust from my Tristar, even with both filters fitted if I were to use it for picking up ash and soot... :S

 

[vintagerepairer]

Hi 2CV. Well I'm not so sure it's a case of 'cheap and disposable' as much as it is just getting on with life. You know, something is bought to be used and looked after within reason, but not at the cost of putting ones life on hold. For instance, my girl Linda, she will be doing 2 - 3 houses a day, more if her sister is with her, and the object of the exercise is to provide a service for the local people, and of course make a living for herself. It is only cost-effective for her to do certain things in a certain way, like her going out and buying a brand new Hetty. As she said to me, "Mr Broadbent, he (Henry) was the last one I had that worked and when he died on me in the middle of the day, I was truly lost". For her, it is about keeping the wheels in motion, keeping the plates spinning, and making sure her business carries on going, by not getting over-attached to a certain product.

I take your point about the soot in the Henry. However, what you have to ask yourself, is what the alternative is. There would probably be far more soot in the air from doing the job itself, irrespective of what left the exhaust air of a Henry.

 

[twocvbloke]

"However, what you have to ask yourself, is what the alt

A specialised Soot vac, I've seen them (via another forum where Woodburning and multifuel stoves are commonly discussed), basically a steel drum with a powerful motor on top with some very hefty filtration, it's not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than a sweep being sued for causing somebody breathing ailments or for leaving fine soot all over the house... :S

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well, anyone in this day & age who might be sued for someone would be a fool to indulge in a practise which leaves them wide open for such. I guess either the man is a fool or else he knows what he's doing.

 

[sebo_fan]

Longevity expectation versus ownership use & abuse.

RainbowD4C - Strange, but I'm completely the opposite. I was raised with upright vacuums in the UK, because we had carpet and very little else as an alternative. It took me years to appreciate canisters/cylinders because they're a lot lighter to use and without PN/Power nozzles, they're far more versatile to use, especially for detail cleaning - so handy to take the whole machine up a ladder to clean the loft with one hand on the hose, the other holding a lightweight machine like a bucket. Uprights with hoses and stretchable tools offer similar versatility but it is almost always too bulky and time consuming and I could never see myself lifting up upright vacuum in one hand whilst standing on a ladder to get rid of cobwebs and dust around smoke alarms up high!.


Twocvbloke - "society today is more interested in things being cheap and disposable, whether it's a toothbrush or a car.."

Not quite, which is why brands like Miele, Bosch and Sebo exist. In the car world buyers are now realising going for Skoda is better than SEAT (both owned by VW) because the parts are cheaper but the cars are reliable despite the jokes. Same with Hyundai and Kia who at one time churned out rebadged Mitsubishi's and Mazda/Ford U.S based cars, yet one of very few brands who offer a 7 year warranty. As for toothbrushes, Braun hold the top spot for quality - another German - against Philips where the reliability isn't as efficient in their dental care - in the UK at least.

It goes in leaps and bounds - buyers now have the choice to buy cheap 'n' cheerful or better quality - it has always been the way since UK has had the opportunity to be flooded with European & U.S products.

VR does make a valid point that products are being bought with expectations that it will last but additionally owners don't counteract or add the abuse they'll give those appliances with the same initial expectation! I've had a cheap Hinari iron that's lasted me 23 years and I never thought it could last that long - yet it doesn't go through the abuse my mum puts her professional expensive Tefal iron through. I just iron and put it away slowly instead of "throwing" it into the cupboard.

As for Henry - Ive seen Henry vacs being used to suck out petrol when car owners have mistakenly used the petrol pump for diesel! It isn't something I'd recommend - but then Henry machines can be used Bag-less because their basic filtration isn't HEPA based but simple 2 stage microfiltration through the cloth, washable basket. The motor is also similarly protected.

 

[uksausage]

uk machines vers american

i have always wondered why we dont have more cylinder cleaners with power nozzles here in the uk, considering a lot of the TTI machines are also available in the uk badged under the hoover and vax label and now wertheim, the TTI machines in the states are availablw with the powerhead while the exact same model in the uk has an air driven turbo brush, wertheim vacuums which are relativly new to the uk but have been around in australia for years are now TTI machines but with the powerhead unfortunalty reliability is a problem for these machines,they used to be made by electrolux ( the kind of electrolux we have in the uk not the american style ) as much as i love uprights i do like cylinder cleaners with power nozzles i bought a power nozzle for my miele cat and dog and it improved the performance 10 fold, i have a tristar exl with an amzing power nozzle also 2 wertheim machines and a vorwerk tiger with a power nozzle and i have to say they all clean better than any of the upright machines, the wertheim machines have resorted back to having metal beaters on their brush roll and the dirt they pull out the carpet is emense just a shame they break so easily, i feel we should have more power nozzle cylinder cleaners in the uk i think they would prob sell now unlike the machines of years ago, im still trying to lay my hands on the vax bagless cylinder with a power head but they are so hard to find, if anyones intrested by the way my tristar is up for sale i need to clear some machines out as i have to many lol
thanx for reading guys, by the way can someone tell are tristar still sold in the uk

 

[venson]

@uksausage

A lot has to do with perceived need. Unfortunately, for we Americans, satisfaction is in no way intended as part of the game plan for America consumers by those out to sell us things. We "need" everything and at least two of everything at that.

Europe, while I was there, appeared a more conservative place. There were lots of people I knew that could have had just about anything they wanted -- including someone to come in and clean -- that were perfectly satisfied with wood or tile flooring and maybe just an area rug or two. Living spaces weren't usually large stuffed with a lot of "must haves".

What amazed me about Europe is that I saw washing machines that hooked up to one line only and heated their own water. That's literally unheard of in the U.S. Europe is where I saw the first instant water heater. You turn the tap it kicks on with the water flow and shuts off as soon as the demand for hot water ends with your closing the tap. Here we usually have a device to heat and hold water in a large tank, all day long, whether you're in or out. Not necessarily economical, but that's the way we do it.

We have never had such a thing as a floor polisher and vacuum as an all-in-one so you could buff and sweep simultaneously. You've had steam cleaners for years. They're just coming to us now and, even with those, some are being bastardized to call for need of detergents they're intended to keep us from buying.

We didn't have much call for power nozzles in the U.S. until synthetic materials allowed for an abundance of materials that weren't the real thing but looked enough like it to allude to affluence. Those same materials came cheaply enough to be readily accessible to the working and middle class here AND the race for not only high style but ways to keep it clean was on.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes but to be fair Venson, everything in America is automatic, or automatically done for you, thus stopping you from lifting a finger. From self driven mechanised uprights to sofa and chairs covered with that awful plastic wrap stuff to avoid dusting, America seems to have it all against Europe which pushes the home owner or appliance owner to work that little bit harder.

Our washing machines are now beginning to have hot or cold fill options - and the portable condenser tumble dryer is also changing from having to empty the water tanks yourself to having a tube at the back being able to drain automatically. Its only taken 10 years or so for "auto-draining" features to be added as well as Direct Drive (LG) against Miele, the most expensive brand of all who still stick with traditional features but are the only brand that you to "upload" or "upgrade" the electronics via your PC and the net.

Much prefer top loaders, even the big American ones you can buy here in the UK.

Same with your cars- whereas America loves the auto-shift, we prefer manual gearboxes - or "stick shift," as the Americans know it - although some of my U.S friends only prefer manual/stick shift on high performance cars.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Uprights for me, because they consistently dealt efficiently with embedded grit and dog hair.

Cylinders are useful for furniture, cars and nooks and crannies.

 

[venson]

@sebo_fan

For a moment you gave me a most humorous remembrance of Tenerife, to wit: "I know you Americans -- you all have televisions in your kitchens."

If all you say is happening in Europe is true, man, are you in trouble. Here I was thinking you guys were winning BUT you're becoming American. Despite your high imaginings of us, thank you very much, nothing's automatic here unless you can afford the price of the ride. We had Electroluxes that were automatic. Once the bag filled, machine was mechanically switched off as the front end of the cleaner flipped open. They now cost about the price of a used car but do they flip open and shut off anymore? No!

As well, we're being discouraged to favor top-loading washers because front-loaders use less water. And, you being blessed with 220 volt power as standard, can plug a dryer in anywhere you feel like and do just fine. If I want a full-size dryer I'll have to call in an electrician and have a 240-volt line laid in at the price of a year's rent. Our only self-propelled vac on the everyday market is one Hoover Wind Tunnel. Self-propelled Eurekas, Kenmores, etc. are all long gone. All that's left beyond that is Kirby but that's the price of a used car. Speaking of used cars . . .

As regards standard shift, my old Bimmer offers that along with automatic drive. It took all I could do to negotiate Manhattan without starting to gnaw on the steering wheel. That's why I never used the shift option because it would have proven one more way to drive myself (pardon the pun) nuts. It's never good to have me on the road and annoyed.

In any event I wonder how it is -- especially at this point in time -- that Europe sees us as happy go lucky spendthrifts when so much of the populous here is only as good as the next credit card payment.

 

[danemodsandy]

Venson:

Everything you say is absolutely true, and yet - there's another side to the story.

With so many Americans so blissfully wedded to wastefulness, a lot of very good, very useful things end up in thrift stores, in yard sales, on Craigslist, and sometimes just on the curb.

Vintage Electroluxes that are far better vacuums than most today are available for nothing, or next to it. My top-of-the-line Maytag washer and dryer were being discarded because the dryer wasn't heating and they were "too old to fool with." $50 worth of parts bought on eBay restored the dryer to full function; that was my only cost for the pair.

I own huge amounts of vintage Farberware (stainless cookware with aluminum bottoms; so good that James Beard used to say it was the best cookware for the money), found in thrift shops for a dollar or two per piece. Vintage Corning Ware Pyroceram was bought the same way.

There is not a new piece of furniture in my house, and every last bit of it is actually wood, not today's chipboard.

I do have to repair things, and spend some money on replacing things like vacuum tools that were carelessly discarded by a former owner. I still come out wayyyyy ahead - and I end up with lasting quality instead of today's plastic marvels. Along the way, I meet interesting people (like on here) and I learn a lot about industrial design and corporate history from a time when corporations served people, not the other way 'round.

So, to the people who thought that Maytag washer and dryer were "too old to fool with" - thank you. Same to whoever bought a new vacuum instead of repairing my TriStar CXL. And the folks who didn't hang on to their Farberware, or their wood furniture. I hope all of you are enjoying your nice new things. I'm enjoying your nice old ones. Cheap.

P.S.: My credit card debt is zero. Special thanks for that!

 

[sebo_fan]

We Brits Are Becoming Americans..

The thing is though Venson, I don't think the UK are in that much trouble, if we turn "American" in our buying options - well aside from maybe taking half your house down to get the American style large, grand fridge/freezer tandem appliances in! I can't wait to be able to buy a filter coffee machine that grinds the beans - we've had to put up with basic machines where you have to buy in the powder.

I have to say in the defence of Americans, I was lucky when I was growing up, because we had a U.S Naval base based in our town - I got to taste Baskins & Robbins ice cream at the age of 14 plus a whole host of American confectionery which was unheard of in the UK generally - unless your town ALSO had a U.S naval base or military operation. I got to see (and ride in) a lot of old wide "magic carpet ride" Cadillac Eldorado cars, Pontiacs, Trans-Ams - you name it - we must have had it! I also got to see a whole long list of household appliances that were particularly novel as well as a feast of Hoover models that we just didn't have in the UK. Our town had integration of Americans and Scots everywhere, but the military also had a section of land whereby American voltage/power station was embedded so that American families could run their appliances. It was a remarkable life, larger than life I'd say even - and Reagan pulled the plug on them tail end of 1991.

Our little Scottish town hasn't really recovered since.

My mum also fondly remembers that she loved the Americans for bringing "Pampers" into her life - or whatever they were called at the time. In the UK we had to make do with heavy nappies you wash, but oh no, the Americans had already had disposable nappies in the 1970s well before the UK had seen them, 10, or 15 years later!

As for me, some of my cookware is also vintage Corningware - it appeared very slowly in the UK in the 1990's and then disappeared, only being able to buy certain pieces from trader companies, like Scotts of Stowe. Corningware is just so versatile - it's like Pyrex that you can put on your hob, in the fridge/freezer in the microwave AND the oven. Typically American (ours show "made in the USA") but the company turn out to be French/Swiss- it's so easy - unlike traditional Pyrex that can only be used in 3 applications out of 4.

Yet now, by the demands of our struggling economy, a lot of buyers are just making do with what they have - and buying the basics. Supermarket brands have never had it so good with buyers now tending to go for "Value" products - and of course Made In China products - based on price alone.

 

[venson]

@danemodsandy

Hi,

You've a great and enviable sense of thrift that I certainly appreciate. As well, I thoroughly agree that there are used items that can, either "as is" or with minimal tending to, serve as good used as when new.

Yet, we have a lot of the same down my way here in Florida but unfortunately a lot of that easy, low-cost availability household furnishings and doo-dads in great shape is not necessarily because of wastefulness but due to jobs folding up, foreclosures and the high cost of living. Come to think of it, that's how I ended up here.

Before I came down, I'd already begun to see signs. I worked doing vac demos nearing the end of 2010 and though the spring of 2011. I was stunned at the number of people who'd smile politely as they nodded recognition but kept on walking toward the end of the aisle and sales items usually beyond 80 bucks but seldom over 150. There were also the many that stopped to look at the demo and to talk, finally telling me that though they thought the product was great, they couldn't afford it at the moment.

I mentioned this to a friend in the business and was told that there's sort of a standing rule as far as vacuum sales go: 20-percent of perspective vac buyers seldom spend past $100, 20-percent seldom spend below $500. It's the remaining 60-percent that are open to persuasion. I've sort of accepted that but still think the economy has a large influence on things. If industry here was "healthier" wouldn't there be a definite difference?

I was raised on a farm. Though I never had to milk a cow, I've been a holy with a screwdriver since the age of six. Like you, I was taught how to be relatively self-sufficient. However, a large part of consumers here haven't been taught the same skills and end up buying what they can -- the more affordable of which comes from foreign shores.

As far excesses go -- I ditched my TV years ago and am perfectly happy to rely on a very good refurbed computer and decent broadband for everything -- entertainment, communications, edification/education, etc. However, what I've been noticing is that despite our economic situation, entertainment is somehow the cash cow here in the U.S. Many who wouldn't even dream of spending 300 bucks on a vacuum will drop 1,500 on a wide-screen TV in a heartbeat.

 

[alexhoovers94]

Reply 18

Hate UPRIGHTS!!!!!! Christ...I can barley stand!! I would rather not vacuum at all than use a cylinder.
I find it pointless having a cylinder with a powerhead, whats the point? that just makes it more heavy and clunky, plus an upright would and will perform better anyway, as it has the bottom weight to it, but is still easy to move around. The majour thing though, for me, is that with an upright it is all there infront of you unlike a cylinder and you not having to worry about pulling this "thing" around that inevitably will get caught on everything.
Horses for corses I guess.

 

[sebo_fan]

Alex - just because your classic Hoover uprights are bottom heavy, doesn't mean they will automatically clean well for all floors. Whilst I agree that cylinder/canister vacs would have a heavy power nozzle, they do work well for those in homes that have carpets AND awkward areas that would be better served with a hose, tube and floor head set up.

It is certainly not "easy" to shove an upright into a tight corner, where I'd imagine the on board tools and hose (where fitted) would come into their own. It is still a bulky compromise though, having to drag a built in short hose and fix whatever tool you need than it is to use a much longer hose from a cylinder/canister vac, far more nimble and not likely to mark anything.

It reiterates the point so many times made, that there isn't a perfect vacuum cleaner regardless of brand or type. Its what fits well into the home at the time and what is required that is near perfect.