American vs. Foreign Canisters.

[rainbowd4c]

I've noticed something over the last few years when ever I do any kind of research. Canisters from the US and Canada you can find with power nozzles as opposed to those in Europe. Most canisters in Europe most likely come with just a combination floor brush. If you want anything with a carpet brush you almost have to go with an upright. Anyone know why this is?

 

[twocvbloke]

It's cos us europeans (well, if you admit to being one!!) apparently like to have backache with all the scrubbing of carpets you have to do with cylinder vacs, personally I can't be bothered with that and that's why I fitted my Electrolux Slimline Z1185e with a Eureka rotomatic PN, because I couldn't be bothered having to deal with cleaning floors in the way it was designed to, and also why I have a TristarCXL too, cos it's just great...

Some mieles and most Sebos have them though, but other manufacturers, haven't a clue really, I guess it just saves money not having to construct electric hoses, additional wiring and a power nozzle... :&#92

 

[vintagerepairer]

The UK is one of the few places in the world to have gone with fitted carpets, and probably the only place in Europe to do so. Therefore, in Europe a cleaner which grooms carpets is not really something of huge importance in that sense. But one only has to look at Markus' pictures and messages to see that many cleaners were available with PN as an optional extra or part of the original purchase on certain models.

In the UK, consumers loved uprights when it came to carpet grooming, and I suppose because of their popularity, there was probably little need to own a cylinder machine which claimed to do the same. UK homes are traditionally rather small and cramped, which means there isn't always that much floor space to clean anyway. Of the cleaners we've had which came with PN, those cleaners were usually large and bulky, and the hoses stiff and unwieldy. In other words, there wasn't the space available to pull one round easily.

I am won't say the Hoover Sensortronic was the first cleaner in the UK with a PN as I know at least one Freedom model had facility for such a thing, and there may have been others, but the Sensortronic is the one I always thing of as it was advertised quite a bit. It was a beast of a cleaner. I disagree strongly that manufactures haven't a clue, I think they knew / know exactly what they are doing and know that cylinders with a PN have been poor sellers. Think also about the cost of these cleaners. For what they sold for in the UK, a consumer could quite literally have bought two cheaper cleaners for the same price, and although I suspect they were never purchased at the same time, a lot of people do seem to have owned an upright and a cylinder cleaner.

Although the cylinders with PN may arguably have the same cleaning performance as an upright, what is often overlooked is that the overall convenience of a small upright cleaner -where one can just plug-in &go and move around easily- is lost with the cylinder cleaners with PN. I would add also that they don't make that great a cylinder either, in my own experience, as the weight of the hose makes tasks like dusting rather daunting and heavy on the arm. Add to that the disconnecting of the mains lead to the PN every time the hose needs to be detached, it does seem to be a lot of bother. Of course, I appreciate fully that more modern cleaners have addressed that last part in a fashion, but the hose and tubes are still bulky.

The suction-driven turbo heads have certainly come into fashion in recent years though. They have been around for a long time but seem to have become the 'norm' for so many cleaners sold here in the last 20 years. But even then, for me nothing grooms a carpet like a good upright cleaner.

 

[danemodsandy]

American for Me

As everyone here knows, I'm a fan of Luxes and TriStars. My experience with a European cleaner was pretty abysmal. It was a Miele White Star my late partner got smooth-talked into buying. It came with a turbo brush that was supposed to be as good as a power nozzle. NOT! It did an extremely poor job of picking up, and it did almost zilch to groom the carpet; you could hardly tell you'd vacuumed. Discussions with the dealer who'd sold this wonder elicted the fact that a true power nozzle was available at an extra cost that would buy a new Kenmore complete with PN. We passed.

Eventually, the Miele was put on eBay, where it did fetch a good price. And I finally found and restored a TriStar CXL, which went through paper bags like crazy for a while, pulling up all the dust the Miele had left behind.

I understand that Mieles are better suited to American conditions now, but I don't think I'd spend the money for one when American vacs that are well-suited to American carpet are more available, and usually cheaper.

 

[eurekaprince]

It's important to remember a bit of history:

The carpet-cleaning upright vacuum cleaner was born in the USA and was developed by the American Hoover company.

The suction only canister was born in Europe and was developed by the Swedish Electrolux company.

There is a larger proportion of large, individual houses in North America compared to Europe, because there is more real estate available here. So our suburban homes often feature larger living rooms and bedrooms and hallways, often covered in wall-to-wall carpeting. It's easier and faster to clean these with an upright than a canister.

Small, powerful canister vacuums are easier to store and carry and move around in the smaller apartments and homes of the cities and towns of Europe.

The attempt to combine the deep carpet cleaning abilities of an upright with the powerful flexibility offered by canisters for cleaning everything else has often met with poor results. The engineering "gymnastics" required to electrically power a canister's power nozzle results in bulky hoses and hose handles, and repair prone electrical connections, besides the often poor cleaning performance by the power nozzle itself. Adding above-the-floor cleaning tools to uprights has its own challenges and downsides: short hoses, on-board tools that are "dumbed down" to keep them lightweight, and hose connection systems that make it difficult or dangerous to move around the main upright unit.

Uprights are for carpets. Canisters are for everything else. And never the "train shall meet" - I say. You can often buy two separate vacs for less money that do each set of tasks better than a combination machine that compromises the ability to clean.

Just my 2 amps worth!

 

[sebo_fan]

As above, although I'd say its the weight issue mainly and I prefer that. Not much point in having excess hose saddled with extra cord, extra weight on the machine, only to have another extra weight at the front - an upright vacuum has everything on board in front of you, weight wise.

You must also remember, the UK is like parts of Europe = France, Germany - we're a much smaller country than the U.S will ever be geographically and here products in general aren't super sized. Therefore our upright vacuums are generally smaller than what you would buy in the U.S

It's one of the reasons alone to why out of the all the U.S brands, only the Kirby vacuum here has been sold - we don't get the Royal uprights here, although some commercial companies in the past have sourced them for the U.K - I recall using a Royal upright only a few years ago and loved the whole concept- but it was huge compared to the Sebo BS36 I was normally used to.

The only successful appliance that has been of a great influence, U.S origin wise are the grand large American style fridge and freezer appliances - and even at that, home owners don't usually measure the size of their front doors or kitchens to accommodate said appliances and end up putting them in their conservatory because it can't get through the front door!

 

[twocvbloke]

"only the Kirby vacuum here has been sold"

Along with Dirt Devil (aka Royal, before TTI took over), Tristar, Rainbow, Filter Queen, Hoover, Sanitaire (as Electrolux), and some others that escape me...

So, yeah, only Kirby sold here in the UK, apparently....

 

[rainbowd4c]

I guess I don't know as much as I thought!!! It was just something that I noticed. I have however seen on the Dyson UK site that the canisters have the air powered brush which I don't really care for but I think the Dyson UK also had the motorhead model still available.

It's something I notice because it's always been my dream to move to Europe Italy, France UK and I guess I just look at the whole big picture when I dream about the idea of moving and it just crossed my mind. Not being a upright peson I naturally look at canisters and it's just something I noticed with the power brushes.

Hope everyone is well.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Hello again. I've note noticed a Dyson cylinder with PN on sale here recently, and I will admit to only having experienced the DC05 motorhead. To say that I felt it was nowhere near as good as an upright is a huge understatement. As I said earlier, the suction-driven turbo heads have increased in popularity over time, but I think that is because more and more cleaners have had them as a standard accessory. As has been said already, uprights are for carpets and cylinders are really for everything else. This mentality has been lost now, as manufacturers have encouraged people to buy their cleaners without really selling the advantages of each type.

In the absence of tools, my mother used hand brushes with her Hoover upright. The gift of her Electrolux 504 in 1975 put a huge spring in her step, as for the first time ever she had a set of tools. In 1978 she 'dared' to buy an Electrolux 302, which was a fairly basic machine, but it was still very effective and although purchased with the intent of leaving it upstairs (where my parents only had floorboards and rugs) my mother often asked me to bring it downstairs for her to use as she said the suction power on the hose was 'more useful' as she used to say, than that of her Electrolux upright.

 

[whirlpolf]

Brian's (eurekaprice)'s answer covered it pretty wel

It's the surface available, mainly. And some living conditions.

Seen from here (Germany), large carpeted areas have never been a major concern.
After WW2 it was predominant to get rid of dust at all, so any good stick vac/ handheld /canister would do.
50s: Starting the vac business, most firms came up with stick vacs (resembling the broom), Vorwerk had a big influence on that (their tiny handheld didn't make a good appearance in shops, so they took to door-to-door sales)
60s and 70s: More and more fitted carpets were sold. Result: More and more firms came up with "Klopfsauger" (= beater type vacuums, this coming from Hoover's "it sweeps as it beats as it cleans") Still, Hoover was considered the "second choice" and "off the shelf" cheap brand (Vorwerk having introduced its extra power brush for any stick vac being sold)
80s and 90s: Dust allergies, fear of dustmites and all that: Retreat from fitted carpets, still no sufficient square metres (Europe IS and will remain cramped, so many people just kept their machines as they were bought in the first place). Besides: Some homes had fitted carpets now, but they would not lift up during suction, so the industry changed from "Klopfsauger" (beater type vac) to "Bürstsauger" (active brushing vacuum) and the beater bars were gone. Even our language reflects this: the term "Klopfsauger" is gone today.

Upcoming "laminated" (= wannabe wood) flat floors, some throw rugs here and there, still lots of furniture everywhere.
The trailblaze of the swiveling combo nozzle (sweeps around any chair leg, click and you are ready to go for carpets). Follow up in corners (Grooming and deep cleaning being one of the things "to be done some day, ok" = never)

2000s up till today: Europe still cramped and lesser surface than compared to the US, furniture taste swinging back to "minimalistic 60s revival" = flat and blank surfaces, more wood, less fabric = still no full chance of full textile surfaces, let alone fitted carpets all over.
Upcome of the "bagless" ingeniuities and cheapo-vacs (Mr. Dyson and DD zigzag filters). (No money for a PN for THAT price).

Overall: Each time a substantial PN came up, customers would complain about the extra costs for an electic hose or wand (helping them nothing or rarely). So companies took to offering PNs as an extra tool, cable clips included (in case you want to do this extra "to be done job" every once in a while)

ALL manufacturers here offer power nozzles, but all do this as an extra tool (on option), it is hardly ever sold directly (apart from Vorwerk, they do sell it as a standard, an extra motorized unit gives you extra points on your sales score, logically, it is door-to-door business, isn't it?)

 

[rainbowd4c]

I have always lived in areas with lots of carpet either wall to wall or a variety of different floor types. Even with lots of carpet I have never really been interested in uprights. I have always felt that they were just to heavy and hard to work with. I like having a canister with a good powernozzle which is why I I think I like my Rainbow so much I use my vacuum for everything from dusting the up the walls knocking cobwebs, to cleaning the tracks in the door, to vacuuming floors and rugs and the furniture. I have just found that uprights are to cumbersome to work with with all that I do

For all the times I think about a new vacuum I find myself first trying to look at a upright but then I just constantly go back to looking at canisters.

 

[jmurray01]

Personally, I like just the floor tool with no brush roll.

OK, you have to "scrub" a bit, but it gets your arms working if nothing else.

The reason people love cylinders (canisters) is mostly because they are maintenance free almost, but if you have a PN on them, that makes them maintenance items, because the belt wears on the PN.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well my friend, there you go. There are a good deal of people here in the UK who dismiss upright cleaners for all the reasons you do, though I think it is fair to say they would generally go for the sort with a combi tool rather than a PN, be it motorised or suction driven. I will admit to having used cylinders with combi tools many times on carpeted areas, but this was largely due to not having the floor space to move an upright around.

Although I have seen a good deal of turn-over tools and carpet-only tools worn right down on the carpet setting, it was always something of a habit of UK cylinder owners to use the floor brush or combi tool on hard-floor setting on carpets, to assist cleaning performance. I mentioned my mothers two Electrolux cleaners already. Both had a turn-over floor tool with them, the one on the 504 upright being a better quality tool than the one with her 302. Mother always used the tools with brushes down on carpets. She used to use both floor tools, keeping the 504 floor tool downstairs with her 504 and if bringing the 302 downstairs she would use the 504 tools on it. He biggest complaint about both tools was that when going under furniture like beds, turning the tube to the side to allow access meant that air directed to the floor would be directed out the top of the tool too as the cleaning angle left the neck of the tool in a sort of middle position. When I got my shop, I found her a floor tool from a Goblin cylinder, which was designed just for floors. Mother used it on carpets, rugs, walls, floors, you name it. That tool never left that cleaner to the day she died, some 20 years later.

 

[rainbowd4c]

Belts are just standard upkeep. I just replaced the belt on my Rainbow the other day. I turned the vacuum on and it pretty much took off on me. LOL

 

[vintagerepairer]

Jmurry hello again. Interesting comment you make about people liking the cylinders as there is no maintenance. I have never heard anyone say that was why they wanted a cylinder. A lot of upright owners who bought their cleaner to me for repair knew nothing of the need to change belts and such. Usually the choice for a cylinder was based on a preference for it's ability to do so many different jobs as fitting tools to so many upright machines was a job in itself. Even those which were easy to attach still had to be stored and moved about separately. Though not perfect, the arrival of upright cleaners with on-board tools did turn quite a few cylinder users over to uprights, according to research at the time.

Though I am not sure how people before say the 1960's initially chose one type or another, I know for a good many years women often bought the same style as their mother had and you could often see whole families using the same sort of cleaner.

 

[eurekaprince]

Here's another interesting angle to add to our dicussion:

In Europe, I imagine good carpet cleaning upright vacuum cleaners are needed for large commercial spaces such as large hotel lobbies and concert halls and banquet halls and conference centres.

I fondly remember seeing a documentary film about the British royal family, and watched with wonder as the cleaning crew slowly "Hoovered" nice parallel tracks down some large acres of broadloom at Buckingham Palace!

This is probably one of the main reasons that uprights by Hoover and Kirby are available on the eastern side of the Atlantic.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well here in the UK, although there are a good many commercial upright cleaners still available, they are expensive, and certainly in this instance we come to the point Jmurry makes about maintenance. Commercial cylinder cleaners are much less problematic than uprights, and historically are a good deal quieter too, which of course is very important for the both the safety of the employee who needs to hear all of what is going on around of them, and also the comfort of anyone using the building whilst cleaning is taking place.

Here, the Numatic cylinder cleaners (especially the Henry) have really taken the lead since the 1980s. Commercial carpet here is usually stuck-down to the floor too, and is often made from man-made looped fibre. All of this lends itself to cleaning from a suction-only cleaner. However, if whole floor spaces are to be cleaned, I too would expect to see an upright, for conveniences sake. But we rarely do see this.

 

[eurekaprince]

Thanks for that explanation, Benny.

On a similar subject, I wonder how popular central vacuum systems are in Europe. These systems would probably provide the most convenient way to clean a multistory British home with lots of stairs. After all, it is in essence a very "long-hosed" canister vac!

But I imagine there is a large proportion of older residential buildings in Europe - with a lot more "flats" rather than separate residences. So perhaps the more traditional architecture of European city residences does not lend itself to the installation of "in-the-wall" vacuum systems.

I recently stayed in a hotel in Montreal, and I was amazed to see the cleaning staff using a central vacuum system to clean the guest rooms. The benefits for a hotel are many - very quiet, and very clean with regard to emissions as the air is filtered way down in the basement where the central power unit is positioned!

 

[danemodsandy]

Um, Not For Me....

"Uprights are for carpets. Canisters are for everything else."

Except for those of us who detest one type or the other. There are canister people, and there are upright people, and while we can all be friends and leave each other to our individual preferences, many people would not consider using an upright when they prefer a canister, or vice versa.

Me, I'm a canister person. I hatehatehateHATE uprights. I mean HATE. Heavy, clunky, unmaneuverable, often won't get under low furniture and are about as convenient as a root canal without anesthesia when it comes to above-the-floor cleaning. Where I live, I see Kirbys in thrifts about three times a month, at very cheap prices (the last was $14). Never even been remotely tempted.

With a canister, above-the-floor is easy. A sleek power nozzle easily gets under the bed. Suction is phenomenal. And the grooming done by a good PN is very good indeed.

I'm glad a lot of you love uprights so much. It leaves that many more canisters for those of us who love those. But please don't try to tell me that an upright is a necessity, because it just isn't.