The Fault Of The TTi Hoover Products

[fromadifferentplanet1996]

While it is true that Hoover is doing well under TTi's ownership, not all of their products are perfect due to warranty issues and all that.

MAKE HOOVER GREAT AGAIN my ass!

 

[panasonicvac]

Unfortunately we live in a world now where companies have to cut cost, be competitive, and give what consumers want. I can't blame them when they had to discontinue the classics like the Guardsman and Conquest.

 

[cheesewonton]

I recently bought a Hushtone upright, CH54113, and have been nothing but impressed by it. I am not much for upright vacuums. I generally prefer power nozzle canisters but the Hushtone does almost everything I need a vacuum to do and does it pretty well without making me bust a sweat. It's certainly a better vacuum than my Caddy ( Crappy ) Vac or my Breathe Easy U5252-900 ( I think that's the model ). Thick steel handle with chunky cord wraps that aren't going to break. Wooden brush roll like an old Windtunnel. Lifetime belt. 5.7 inch / 145 mm motor from Domel. Quality stuff.

 

[vacerator]

Companies do not have to"cut" costs. They choose to for the highest margin for shareholders and top brass. They enjoy the lowest labor cost since the 1980's.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Well, if you want a truly great vacuum that is even better than a Sebo for a reasonable cost, you need crowdfunding, a factory, workers, design skills and some time.

 

[cheesewonton]

Well, if you want a truly great vacuum that is even better than a Sebo for a reasonable cost, you need crowdfunding, a factory, workers, design skills and some time.

Or just buy a Lindhaus upright ................

Honestly the Hoover Hushtone has 90% of the functionality of our Windsor Sensor S12 ( Sebo G1 with a three wire cord ) for half the price and the Hushtone has vastly better filtration than the Windsor / Sebo thing. Oh yes, the Hoover cleans hard floors and does a good job. Not so with the Windsor / Sebo thing. Where the Hushtone comes up short are a lack of a wand extension and the attachments are not as nice as those from Sebo.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Good points!

 

[royalfan103]

Probably my only gripe about TTi Hoovers is that their transmissions don't last. Meanwhile the transmissions in my Maytag Hoovers sound just fine.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That is/was one point where they majorly cut cost. Probably went from metal gears to plastic.

 

[royalfan103]

That is/was one point where they majorly cut cost. Probably went from metal gears to plastic.

When I opened the transmission of my Anniversary up, the gears were plastic. I'm specifically talking about the bearings.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Ah, I see. They are likely standard and replaceable.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

I totally agree.

TTI may have saved the company from going under, but as the saying goes: "you can either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". Hoover obviously chose the latter, and now 90% of their range is low-quality bagless slop that does not resemble anything close to the stuff Hoover produced back in the day. Sure, there are a few gems hidden in the rough, mainly in the commercial range, but that's the thing. Most consumers aren't buying commercial machines. They're buying what they can afford and what's available from their local retail stores. Now, a certain SOMEBODY will like to say "well that's just a you problem", and that somebody has probably no idea what living middle class is like. They know who they are. So no, it's BS to blame the consumer for not having the money to buy higher-end machines from a vacuum store, and not be aware of the numerous cons of bagless vacuums when buying a machine.

Also, Maytag didn't smother Hoover like lots of people will say. Were they as well-built and well-performing as, say, a Concept One or Convertible? Maybe not, but they were still good machines, and certainly better than the crap TTI is putting out today. I'd say it started to go downhill for Maytag and Hoover with the failures of the Windtunnel Dual Vs, Windtunnel 2s, Z series machines, and other blunders.

 

[centralsweeper63]

It was when they were experimenting that it went wrong.

 

[cheesewonton]

I totally agree.

TTI may have saved the company from going under, but as the saying goes: "you can either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". Hoover obviously chose the latter, and now 90% of their range is low-quality bagless slop that does not resemble anything close to the stuff Hoover produced back in the day. Sure, there are a few gems hidden in the rough, mainly in the commercial range, but that's the thing. Most consumers aren't buying commercial machines. They're buying what they can afford and what's available from their local retail stores. Now, a certain SOMEBODY will like to say "well that's just a you problem", and that somebody has probably no idea what living middle class is like. They know who they are. So no, it's BS to blame the consumer for not having the money to buy higher-end machines from a vacuum store, and not be aware of the numerous cons of bagless vacuums when buying a machine.

Also, Maytag didn't smother Hoover like lots of people will say. Were they as well-built and well-performing as, say, a Concept One or Convertible? Maybe not, but they were still good machines, and certainly better than the crap TTI is putting out today. I'd say it started to go downhill for Maytag and Hoover with the failures of the Windtunnel Dual Vs, Windtunnel 2s, Z series machines, and other blunders.

The question thou is would the modern customer buy something like a Decade of even a Windtunnel? We like to think people would but whenever I visit my favorite vacuum shop and talk to the owner he laments that all anyone wants to buy is a cheap bagless stick vac. You show them a nice Cirrus or Sebo upright, both of which he sells, or a Sanitaire soft bag upright and their eyes roll back in their heads. Not what people want.

 

[centralsweeper63]

In NZ, at vacuum shops, about 1/4 to 1/2 of all sales are Sebo. This is at About Clean/Vacdirect stores.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

The question thou is would the modern customer buy something like a Decade of even a Windtunnel? We like to think people would but whenever I visit my favorite vacuum shop and talk to the owner he lame⁹nts that all anyone wants to buy is a cheap bagless stick vac. You show them a nice Cirrus or Sebo upright, both of which he sells, or a Sanitaire soft bag upright and their eyes roll back in their heads. Not what people want.

Because more often then not, these machines are too expensive for them as much as I love Sebos, Central Vacuums, and other high-end machines, it's important to realize that they're just that: high end. Not everyone has $600+ to burn on a vacuum cleaner.

There's also the whole thing of people simply being manipulated by marketing into buying such bad machines. In other words, a product doesn't need to be good, it just has to be advertised right. And because most people are not vacuum experts, it's a lot harder for people to distinguish the crap from the cake. A prime example of this is with Sharks and Dysons. They can make the I'll-founded claim that "most vacuums lose almost all of their suction after a while!" Then pitch you on a vacuum that is more maintenance, hassle, and worse performing, but you'll still have faith in it because you were told that it doesn't suffer from suction loss. Even I was one with these people long ago. I watched the infomercials for the Shark Rotator, Powered Lift-Aways, and other machines, and were immediately sold on. Of course now I know those machines are mediocre at best, and I wouldn't recommend them over something like a bagged machine or some sorts. I think today's equivalent would be Tiktok influencers getting paid to advertise machines from both well known brands and no-name brands from Amazon and Walmart.

I'd say that all of this really began with Dyson, though another company to blame would be Rexair and their machines, but that's a different can of worms. They sold people on the idea that suction loss was a catastrophic issue plauging 99% of vacuums on the market, and that only dysons were immune to this because they had cyclones. Other vacuum manufacturers saw this, and then naturally had to compete, and so this big lie of suction-loss and cyclones has shaped the vacuum industry to what it is today. I've tried real hard to convince some people that bagless is not the way to go, but they've been fed these lies for so long that nothing will shake them.

In short, It's not the consumer's fault.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I can definitely agree with all that.

 

[cheesewonton]

Because more often then not, these machines are too expensive for them as much as I love Sebos, Central Vacuums, and other high-end machines, it's important to realize that they're just that: high end. Not everyone has $600+ to burn on a vacuum cleaner.

There's also the whole thing of people simply being manipulated by marketing into buying such bad machines. In other words, a product doesn't need to be good, it just has to be advertised right. And because most people are not vacuum experts, it's a lot harder for people to distinguish the crap from the cake. A prime example of this is with Sharks and Dysons. They can make the I'll-founded claim that "most vacuums lose almost all of their suction after a while!" Then pitch you on a vacuum that is more maintenance, hassle, and worse performing, but you'll still have faith in it because you were told that it doesn't suffer from suction loss. Even I was one with these people long ago. I watched the infomercials for the Shark Rotator, Powered Lift-Aways, and other machines, and were immediately sold on. Of course now I know those machines are mediocre at best, and I wouldn't recommend them over something like a bagged machine or some sorts. I think today's equivalent would be Tiktok influencers getting paid to advertise machines from both well known brands and no-name brands from Amazon and Walmart.

I'd say that all of this really began with Dyson, though another company to blame would be Rexair and their machines, but that's a different can of worms. They sold people on the idea that suction loss was a catastrophic issue plauging 99% of vacuums on the market, and that only dysons were immune to this because they had cyclones. Other vacuum manufacturers saw this, and then naturally had to compete, and so this big lie of suction-loss and cyclones has shaped the vacuum industry to what it is today. I've tried real hard to convince some people that bagless is not the way to go, but they've been fed these lies for so long that nothing will shake them.

In short, It's not the consumer's fault.

Tristar and Patriot also use the no loss of suction argument along with the superior filtration argument Patriot maintains, with some justification though at $200 a pop for that big filter it darn well better have superior filtration ! Tristar was bragging about the benefits of their cyclonic action way back in the 1940s.

 

[centralsweeper63]

It lasts a long time compared to other things though.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

Tristar and Patriot also use the no loss of suction argument along with the superior filtration argument Patriot maintains, with some justification though at $200 a pop for that big filter it darn well better have superior filtration

Superior filtration my male donkey. The open-bag design, while it does allow for one to pull out things that they accidentally picked up out of the bag, also exposes you to all the dust and debris you picked up. It partly defeats the point of having a bagged vacuum in that case. Also, I had no idea that the Patriot filters are $200 a piece. That's Crazy! Nobody should be paying that much for filters on any vacuum, period.

 

[cheesewonton]

Superior filtration my male donkey. The open-bag design, while it does allow for one to pull out things that they accidentally picked up out of the bag, also exposes you to all the dust and debris you picked up. It partly defeats the point of having a bagged vacuum in that case. Also, I had no idea that the Patriot filters are $200 a piece. That's Crazy! Nobody should be paying that much for filters on any vacuum, period.

So Patriot does have a closed top bag. It's called the Hybrid bag. For reasons I don't understand it is not shown on their website but they exist. Dealers have them. There is a rubber spout you add to the inside of the lid to poke through the rubber seal on the top of the bag. Still it's a paper bag and they don't capture the dust as well as a synthetic bag. I use the synthetic closed top bags for the Vortech XR3000 in my Patriot. Stays squeaky clean that way. Schoettler says the big "Medik-Aire" filter only needs to be replaced every three years. Seen from that perspective exhaust filtration is $100 a year, comparable to Miele and some other high end vacuums.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That is what I mean, massive surface area so it lasts longer

 

[amtraksebo1997]

So Patriot does have a closed top bag. It's called the Hybrid bag. For reasons I don't understand it is not shown on their website but they exist. Dealers have them. There is a rubber spout you add to the inside of the lid to poke through the rubber seal on the top of the bag. Still it's a paper bag and they don't capture the dust as well as a synthetic bag. I use the synthetic closed top bags for the Vortech XR3000 in my Patriot. Stays squeaky clean that way. Schoettler says the big "Medik-Aire" filter only needs to be replaced every three years. Seen from that perspective exhaust filtration is $100 a year, comparable to Miele and some other high end vacuums.

Huh... Yeah I'm not exactly the most knowledgeable with Patriot vacuums. I pretty much just know that they're Tri-Star wannabes that have weird wands and bodies, and have used Sebo power heads. And those must be some beefy exhaust filters if they cost $300 and last 3 years. That would sound more believable on something like a central vacuum, but I digress.

 

[ultralux88]

You wouldn't put any kind of big expensive filter on a central vac, as you should never have a central vac vented back into the interior of the house, doing so defeats a whole half the purpose of the central, not venting anything back into the home.

 

[centralsweeper63]

It is somewhat fine as long as it is a good, bagged MD unit, though unacceptable for a bagless unit.

 

[cheesewonton]

Huh... Yeah I'm not exactly the most knowledgeable with Patriot vacuums. I pretty much just know that they're Tri-Star wannabes that have weird wands and bodies, and have used Sebo power heads. And those must be some beefy exhaust filters if they cost $300 and last 3 years. That would sound more believable on something like a central vacuum, but I digress.

The Medik-Aire filter is huge and sell for $200. If I wrote $300 I was mistaken.

 

[cheesewonton]

Harold Schoettler was the President of Interstate Engineering in the 1980s. Back then Interstate made vacuums but also made cast automobile wheels under the Interstate and USA Mag brand names, security systems and smoke and heat detectors. They had a defense electronics subsidiary called Interstate Electronics that was a major contractor on the US Navy's ballistic missile submarine program. Interstate Electronics still exists as a subsidiary of the big defense conglomerate Harris / L3, still in Anaheim around the corner from the former vacuum manufacturing facility.

There was a disagreement between Harold Schoettler and the Board of Directors over a move by the board to change the material the smoke and heat detectors were made of from metal to plastic. At the time Interstate was owned by Figgie International. Schoettler opposed the move and eventually quit Interstate to start his own company in 1989. Ironically Schoettler had been trying to convince the same board to make Tristars out of plastic so they would be lighter and easier to sell.

Old man Figgie's business empire would begin to implode in the mid 1990s leading to Figgie shedding about 2/3s of the companies he owned. Interstate Engineering was sold to Engels Urso Capital Corp in June 1996.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Interesting, cool story. Thanks.