Dyson Piston

[Hatsuwr]

@Hatsuwr, the absolute TL;DR is that suction determines air speed, airflow is secondary to suction (pressure difference by the way), airwatts is like electronic circuitry (suction ≈ voltage, airflow ≈ amp current, flooring and leaks ≈ resistance), and you need both good seal and proper agitation and effective pile separation. The best cyclonic designs are far better than bags because they doesn't lose suction unless overfilled bin or reckless usage, and finally...


Dyson motors are far too small for normal ball bearings of any reasonable size, by the way.

I doubt they are too small for commonly available bearings. McMaster has 1/8" and 3 mm OD for sale, and it's not hard to get smaller from a manufacturer.
Although that does bring up a correction I should make: at this size, speed ratings of 100k-200k rpm aren't as uncommon as I first assumed.
https://www.mcmaster.com/57155K339/

Regarding your other point... Actually I'm not sure what that point is. Is it just another opinion about cyclonic separation vs bags? Not really sure why we are addressing that one again... They each have their pros and cons. Pressure loss is just one of the differences, but personally I think there are more important distinctions. Besides, pressure loss is going to depend more on the specific implementation of the system rather than just the decision about which method to use.

 

[cheesewonton]

I doubt they are too small for commonly available bearings. McMaster has 1/8" and 3 mm OD for sale, and it's not hard to get smaller from a manufacturer.
Although that does bring up a correction I should make: at this size, speed ratings of 100k-200k rpm aren't as uncommon as I first assumed.
https://www.mcmaster.com/57155K339/

Regarding your other point... Actually I'm not sure what that point is. Is it just another opinion about cyclonic separation vs bags? Not really sure why we are addressing that one again... They each have their pros and cons. Pressure loss is just one of the differences, but personally I think there are more important distinctions. Besides, pressure loss is going to depend more on the specific implementation of the system rather than just the decision about which method to use.

I have been experimenting with a home made expander cage for an old Kenmore from 1982. In standard form they very much suffer airflow reduction as the bag fills. It is their only fault but one that many bagged vacuums suffer. I made an expander cage that keeps the bag away from the sides, bottom and in particular the underside of the lid. Remember those old Kennys had the motor sitting vertically with the fan facing up under a big square filter housing. Keeping the bag away from the lid and away from the sides of the air filter box seemed to be the key to maintaining airflow as the bag filled. Turns out my home made expander cage worked as planned maintaining full airflow ( easy to judge based on the hiss coming from the hard floor brush which formerly declined to almost inaudible as the bag filled, but not now ) until the bag started to back up into the hose. I got the idea from the expander cages used in the Kenmore Elite and Intuition canister vacuums and the removable expander cages in some modern Panasonic vacuums sold in North America and Japan.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I have never seen that kind of power consumption with the v16 - no matter which attachement or cleaning scenario and this 2x power consumption difference from the nominal rating given on the label would be pretty much out of line compared to the older machines.

The data was collected from all machines i have - tested with no attachement (what should give maximum motor power data)

V11 Outsize 91 wh battery size / runtime 8:06 --> 674,1 consumption / 545 nominal = factor 1,237

V12 63 wh / 5:35 -> 667 / 544 = factor 1,226

Mirco 1,5kg 36 wh 6:37 --> 326,45 / 225 = factor 1,451

Gen5 90wh / 5:35 -> 967,2 watt / 752 = factor 1,286


V16 99,97 wh / 11:30 --> 495 / 450 = factor 1,1


All machines had factory new batterys except for the micro (that i bought 2nd hand and i do not know how good the battery is so the data is maybe compromised by this) have around factor 1,25.

So the v16 would have the out of the line factor 2x or even more and i still have no data found that the 900w is actually no marketing term and actualy means 900 Watt which should give about 6:30 minuntes of runtime (or less if > 900 watt).

Assuming V16 is just underpowered instead of merely being crippled.

@frickhelm hello. @Vacuum Facts found out that one can fix the V16.

 

[centralsweeper63]

By potentially damaging it after time!

 

[Follettolover]

Really tired of these marketing materials. Why can’t they just keep things as they show on their site….

 

[centralsweeper63]

Have you bought a V16?

 

[Follettolover]

In any case, the first Fluffy was a little heavier and thicker than the new one, but it had a rear roller that helped a lot in the backward movement, allowing the dirt not to jump out of the brush while pushing back and all mechanically, a pity that they removed it

 

[centralsweeper63]

Du you have the new one?

 

[Follettolover]

Have you bought a V16?

No, it's a screenshot of a Polish video, without fluffy I won't buy this model because for my parquet and marble it's just fantastic and smooth and this new brush doesn't convince me for this kinda floors

 

[cheesewonton]

In any case, the first Fluffy was a little heavier and thicker than the new one, but it had a rear roller that helped a lot in the backward movement, allowing the dirt not to jump out of the brush while pushing back and all mechanically, a pity that they removed itView attachment 171790

Hitachi power nozzles sold with their Japan market canisters had that rear roller for ages.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yes, I have seen that type of things.

 

[Follettolover]

Hitachi power nozzles sold with their Japan market canisters had that rear roller for ages.

View attachment 171791

It looks fantastic and I can understand that in Japan they already had these brushes, the floors are mostly made of fine wood there

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yep, they do have lots of wood floors.

 

[vac14012]

In any case, the first Fluffy was a little heavier and thicker than the new one, but it had a rear roller that helped a lot in the backward movement, allowing the dirt not to jump out of the brush while pushing back and all mechanically, a pity that they removed itView attachment 171790

The fluffy head on the v15 also removed the roller. I can't comment on if the original non laser head was better as I've never used one.

If a piece of debris is really large, like a dog kibble it can potentially shoot it forwards but other than that imo the fluffy head is perfect.

 

[centralsweeper63]

sThe Fluufy Head is perfect for hard floors. That is one good Dyson thing.

 

[Follettolover]

The fluffy head on the v15 also removed the roller. I can't comment on if the original non laser head was better as I've never used one.

If a piece of debris is really large, like a dog kibble it can potentially shoot it forwards but other than that imo the fluffy head is perfect.

I had it in my v11 and now in the v15 I have the laser one, I can confirm that the old one was more effective especially in the backward movement, often with the lasers one when I pull it back I see dust that jumps (it's normal since the roller turns in reverse compared to the direction) with the old one it didn't happen because it had that rear roller that turned with the movement, but it was terrible as usability because it was very clumsy and big in size, the new one is just a pleasure to use

 

[cheesewonton]

It looks fantastic and I can understand that in Japan they already had these brushes, the floors are mostly made of fine wood there

Actually that era of Hitachi power nozzles were less than fantastic. They have a new nozzle that has a slick anti tangle feature nobody else has thought of. The bristles are loops, not straight end and hair doesn't stick to them. Really clever design and the first Hitachi nozzle I have used that is decent on our rugs. Still not as good as the Panasonic G series power nozzles but better close now.

 

[Follettolover]

Yep, they do have lots of wood floors.

Yes, I think it's normal that Dyson arrived later because in England there are not many hard floors, I think

Here in Italy it is full of marbs and before vacuum cleaners there were polishers, our grandmothers waxed the floors every month and polished them, in fact here in Italy Vorwerk is used a lot which had a polisher that connected to the vacuum cleaner, something that only Vorwerk did in Italy, unfortunately this kinda of brush heads are now completely gone

 

[cheesewonton]

Yes, I think it's normal that Dyson arrived later because in England there are not many hard floors, I think

Here in Italy it is full of marbs and before vacuum cleaners there were polishers, our grandmothers waxed the floors every month and polished them, in fact here in Italy Vorwerk is used a lot which had a polisher that connected to the vacuum cleaner, something that only Vorwerk did in Italy, unfortunately this kinda of brush heads are now completely gone

All the major vacuum manufacturers in the US sold analogous floor polishers in decades past. Some had two wheels, some had three but same idea.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Floor polisher are cool.

 

[cheesewonton]

Floor polisher are cool.

In the Navy we had those big single wheel polishers. There is a technique to using them but once you have it dialed in they are super easy to control.

 

[Follettolover]

All the major vacuum manufacturers in the US sold analogous floor polishers in decades past. Some had two wheels, some had three but same idea.

Cool I didn't know that, vorwerk started producing the polisher head meant to be attach to the vacuum cleaner in the early 70s, before they were a separate machines

 

[Follettolover]

Floor polisher are cool.

Yes, in fact I love the fluffy brush because it caresses the floor like polishes, and also like them the movement is facilitated by the roller and not by the wheels
The Old Fluffy walked practically alone, even when the Dyson was in stop at one point, as the roller was very big

 

[cheesewonton]

Cool I didn't know that, vorwerk started producing the polisher head meant to be attach to the vacuum cleaner in the early 70s, before they were a separate machines

I dig Vorwerk Kobold vacuums. I have a Tiger 260 with the EB360 power brush that came from Japan where it was sold as the Lux Sora. They are funky weird vacuums but really functional.

 

[Follettolover]

I dig Vorwerk Kobold vacuums. I have a Tiger 260 with the EB360 power brush that came from Japan where it was sold as the Lux Sora. They are funky weird vacuums but really functional.

Well yes, now vorwerk vac are shit, they tried to go cordless but people heated it, and so am I…they were a very good German brand who did better with an old fashion way, electronic and tech are not for them