Dyson Piston

[Follettolover]

I think his point is that most/many bagged units will outlast the bagless ones by years if not in orders of magnitude, thereby staying out of the landfills, and being replaced altogether.

I am very sad that many people do not know that almost all companies allow the free returns of old non working products in order to avoid pollution, we need more culture and information! But we live in a world where you throw and buy back all the time without even ennobling a product that paid a lot and that could be fixed instead of replaced
We’re living in a very fast life

 

[herbicide]

I am very sad that many people do not know that almost all companies allow the free returns of old non working products in order to avoid pollution, we need more culture and information! But we live in a world where you throw and buy back all the time without even ennobling a product that paid a lot and that could be fixed instead of replaced
We’re living in a very fast life

That might just be a EU thing. I don't know if its a thing in the USA; and if it is here, chances are that stuff is just going to the same final destination as if the consumer sent it to the landfill.

 

[cheesewonton]

Fun fact, in my university during the design lesson the professor showed us one Dyson (I don’t remember the name) but it was the first vacuum cleaner built entirely from recycled plastic in 1995, it was also packaged in a reusable bag with instructions printed with recycled paper.
The project was not successful because people was not aware or sensitized enough to justify the higher price in the face of sustainability, nowadays this is a very important factor to build a product

Using recycled plastics might explain why the plastics on Dysons ( Diesoons ) get brittle and break so soon. The plastics Diesoon uses is a major reason they offend me so. Just this cheap, hard, shiny, squeaky, brittle garbage. Everything about them screams cheap. I wouldn't buy a bagged vacuum made that cheaply. Latches are fragile and break. Nozzles and other parts develop cracks. Call it abuse if you must but a well made vacuum will withstand abuse. You see the beatings that Windsor Sensor S12 withstand for six to ten years of hard daily use by custodial or hospitality cleaning crews and nod your head saying to yourself that is how a quality vacuum should be made.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Well, talk to my 30 year old daily driver Kirby that has been used every day since new and never serviced. What about my old beater Electrolux from 1982. How does my 1934 Electrolux look. What about my 1986 Tellus. The list goes on and on. Sebo will sell you a machine that runs for 20-25 years. Compare that to 4-5 years on a Dyson. Also, the battery could be replaced and the machine will run another 3 years.

Using the Gen5 Detect (because it is the newest model with parts on the website) and the Sebo D4, the Gen5 costs $1040 on batteries because of replacing the battery after 4 years, $1750 on filters replacing it every year (because they fall apart with being washed many times), $600 on misc parts as SOMETHING other than the battery will break in 7 years and $6600 on machines because after the second battery is gone they are toast. $10,000 over 25 years.

On to the Sebo, $2000 on the machine, $600 on filters as the bag catches almost all the dirt and they only need replacing every 3rd year, $690 on bags as they last about 3 months (big 6 litre capacity) and cost $55 for 2 years worth and then adding on $700 for servicing and misc problems. $4,000 over 25 years.

There is your answer.

 

[herbicide]

Using the Gen5 Detect (because it is the newest model with parts on the website) and the Sebo D4, the Gen5 costs $1040 on batteries because of replacing the battery after 4 years, $1750 on filters replacing it every year (because they fall apart with being washed many times), $600 on misc parts as SOMETHING other than the battery will break in 7 years and $6600 on machines because after the second battery is gone they are toast. $10,000 over 25 years.

On to the Sebo, $2000 on the machine, $600 on filters as the bag catches almost all the dirt and they only need replacing every 3rd year, $690 on bags as they last about 3 months (big 6 litre capacity) and cost $55 for 2 years worth and then adding on $700 for servicing and misc problems. $4,000 over 25 years.

There is your answer.

That is just a bunch of vague subjective anecdotes. (sarcasm)

Edit: In all seriousness your statement is the answer as you say.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I thought I would run all the math and lay it out as clearly as possible.

 

[cheesewonton]

For something like a Sebo G4/G5 a box of 8 dust bags, a HEPA pre motor filter and the electrostatic exhaust filter will cost you about $120 and last a year. A replacement brush roll is about $35. They are very inexpensive to operate. A Miele canister will cost you a couple of times that for bags and filters and the brush roll for the SEB236 power nozzle retails for $95. $95 !!! For a stinking plastic brush roll that is prone to melting. Highway robbery. Miele can kiss my grits.

https://sebo.us/accessories/90406AM/BF

 

[centralsweeper63]

That was NZ prices BTW.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I thought I would run all the math and lay it out as clearly as possible.

So did @Vacuum Facts

 

[herbicide]

So did @Vacuum Facts

Except he left out pesky little details like lifespan, repairs, etc.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yeah, the little expenses. The ones that add up QUICK.

 

[herbicide]

I mean, @centralsweeper63 you even gave Dyson the benefit of the doubt on service costs. Empirically Sebo should have a much lower cost than Dyson's here, but you actually flipped it to Dyson's advantage, but the numbers still heavily favor Sebo.

 

[vac14012]

8 bags lasting a year is a pretty generous estimate if you have pets.

If you have zero pets or kids, or bring in any dirt from outside. And basically live as careful as possible then maybe.

My grandma could probably do that. Since she lives alone and doesn't do much. But for the average household you're gonna go through a lot of bags.

 

[vac14012]

That is just a bunch of vague subjective anecdotes. (sarcasm)

Edit: In all seriousness your statement is the answer as you say.

I mean that is a bunch of a subjective made up numbers. Just making up repair costs and 6600 on "Machines"? What?

 

[herbicide]

I mean that is a bunch of a subjective made up numbers. Just making up repair costs and 6600 on "Machines"? What?

Ask @centralsweeper63 for details but I read it as estimates given NZ prices and a 7(?) year lifespan?

In the comparison he gave Dyson lower repair costs (besides batteries & replacement machines) than a Sebo, and I think that is more than fair to Dyson, not fair (nor realistic) to Sebo.

Edit: My quick equivalent US Math, using list prices per mfr websites. I am leaving repairs and service charges (besides batteries, bags, filters) off. Please anyone let me know if my cadence is incorrect on replacements, I am trying to give the Dyson the benefit of the doubt here on lifespans:

 

[herbicide]

8 bags lasting a year is a pretty generous estimate if you have pets.

If you have zero pets or kids, or bring in any dirt from outside. And basically live as careful as possible then maybe.

My grandma could probably do that. Since she lives alone and doesn't do much. But for the average household you're gonna go through a lot of bags.

I am going on week 9 on bag 1; 2 long haired young kids, long haired wife who loves to bake (flour everywhere) and one medium (30lb/14kg) shedding dog. I think 8 bags per year for a D4 is more than a fair estimate.

 

[cheesewonton]

8 bags lasting a year is a pretty generous estimate if you have pets.

If you have zero pets or kids, or bring in any dirt from outside. And basically live as careful as possible then maybe.

My grandma could probably do that. Since she lives alone and doesn't do much. But for the average household you're gonna go through a lot of bags.

The bag that fits Sebo G/X/370/Mechanical models is a very large dust bag. I can fill an Electrolux Style C bag in 3-4 vacuuming sessions in my home where the Sebo bag lasts weeks.

 

[huskyvacs]

Ask @centralsweeper63 for details but I read it as estimates given NZ prices and a 7(?) year lifespan?

In the comparison he gave Dyson lower repair costs (besides batteries & replacement machines) than a Sebo, and I think that is more than fair to Dyson, not fair (nor realistic) to Sebo.

Edit: My quick equivalent US Math, using list prices per mfr websites. I am leaving repairs and service charges (besides batteries, bags, filters) off. Please anyone let me know if my cadence is incorrect on replacements, I am trying to give the Dyson the benefit of the doubt here on lifespans:

View attachment 171418

No Dyson filter is lasting 5 years, no matter if motor filter or exhaust filter. The motors spin as such a high rpm they generate tons of carbon dust that fills those filters solid.

 

[centralsweeper63]

They are brushless motors. Also, I was being very generous with 7 years. More realistically 4, even with a new battery.

 

[cheesewonton]

They are brushless motors. Also, I was being very generous with 7 years. More realistically 4, even with a new battery.

Some are, some aren't. I have seen a lot of Dysons with utterly conventional single stage tapered fan Panasonic suction motors with carbon brushes. The battery powered models probably are the ones using a brushless motor but not the corded Dysons.

 

[centralsweeper63]

The corded ones are brushed, the cordless ones aren't.

 

[Follettolover]

From expertreviews.. I never had problems with my v15 and Flour or fine dust (like the one pick up from mattress) this is very sad to see, even if (like they said) you’re unlikely to be hoovering up this amount of flour very often

 

[Follettolover]

Perhaps the problem can be that in the first stage of separation, the dust does not move through a cyclonic movement but remains static and some particles of fine dust could rise and escape even to the second conical system? Even if the U-Shape of the first stage allows a minimum circular movement of the dust, idk

 

[herbicide]

No Dyson filter is lasting 5 years, no matter if motor filter or exhaust filter. The motors spin as such a high rpm they generate tons of carbon dust that fills those filters solid.

I somewhat agree, although there should be no carbon dust on the cordless units.

I chose 5 years because I don't think even the staunchest Dyson supporters (sans VF...) would argue they last longer. (same logic to 10yr vac overall lifetime)

 

[centralsweeper63]

They fall apart with washing.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

They fall apart with washing.

The what?

 

[centralsweeper63]

The filters fall apart after 10-12 washes.

 

[cheesewonton]

The filters fall apart after 10-12 washes.

I've had "washable" filters last fewer washes than that. And they really don't come clean from washing.

 

[centralsweeper63]

No, they are designed to trap debris. This is good for filtering and bad for cleaning.

 

[Follettolover]

Update, in Poland they start giving away the fluffy brush for the v16 as a present, with a promotional deadline of 12/31/2025 so I imagine that the v16 will be presented in the USA at the beginning of the new year