Will bags make a comeback?

[jake1234]

Hi all,

It seems to be a bit different in America because after looking online it seems you have plenty of bagged machines available, including uprights at both budget and high end. In the UK its different and we only have 1 budget bagged upright, the Hoover Purepower/Enigma. We do have a few bagged cylinders though but not nearly as many as the bagless ones. However Mr.Gtech has introduced a bagged upright, its not mains powered or anything, just like a stick vac really, and he has also introduced a cordless bagged handheld. I know the situation isnt as bad in america but in the UK its a sorry state of bagged machines because there are hardly any! I wouldnt call the Gtech budget, maybe in the middle, because its not budget but its certainly not top end. The budget Hoover Purepower/Enigma we have over here is usually anywhere from £60 to £120 but for some reason I have seen them even cheaper lately at just £49.99. The gtech bagged upright is £129.99 and the high end bagged machines over here are usually around the £300 mark. We hardly have any bagged uprights over here so my question is, do you think bags will slowly creep back in? Will we see more bagged machines coming back both budget, medium and high end? Or has Dyson ruined it completely?

 

[madaboutsebo]

If you think about it bagged machines in the UK never really went away! They where still there in the background it was just bagless had more presence when it first exploded onto the market more! The likes of SEBO, Vorwerk and Miele where still there and still are with their bagged machines. Miele introduced a bagless machine and more recently their first cordless is bagless as they said to cater for both markets! Some say it’s because they can’t improve on their bag technology anymore!? Plenty still to improve on IMO!
Gtech introduced bagged models because they found from research people still found bagless messy to empty but didn’t like the maintenance that comes with bagless too! Something owners forget to do a lot of the time! Some owners are starting to now see the downsides to bagless machines and the high maintenance and decided to try a bagged machines again! I believe Gtech are working on another cordless bagged machine!
It remains to be seen if we get any more budget bagged machines in particular uprights as cordless seems to be the trend in the UK at present! I do think the bubble on bagless technology is slowly deflating in the UK some of that I think is because what I mentioned above maintenance, messy emptying and the other thing they don’t always last long!! That’s sometimes down to neglect of maintenance though!
I only use bagged machines now, prefer them.

 

[human]

One can hope...

...that bags make a comeback. Frankly, it baffles me how bagless plasticrap vacs became so popular. Replacing a full bag is such a quick, simple, non-messy operation while emptying a dust cup and cleaning filters is a such a labor intensive, not to mention messy, proposition. The kicker is that the industry somehow decided it was more profitable to kiss off continuing revenue from consumable supplies. I guess they made a cynical decision that consumer laziness would be on their side and they'd be better off letting end users neglect their bagless machines so they'd fail after a couple of years and have to be replaced. And to ensure the success of this ploy, they make the plasticrap vacs as cheaply as possible to ensure their predictable failure. For me, bags never went away because I refuse to ever go bagless and I have enough high quality bagged machines to make good on that statement.

 

[vacuumdevil]

@jake1234 They never went away the majority a vacuum sold which are for commercial use are still bagged. as far as the whole market goes there still plenty of bagged machines out there as others have pointed out. Just think of the lovely smiling Henry.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I prefer bagged, always.

ONE of the problems I see, is that people don't clean/change the filters on bagless. 'There's a filter"? I hear all the time. I have seen bagless units "leak" dust, at times.
Give me "genuine HOOVER" bags anytime.

 

[crazykirbydude]

The only bags I don't like are the Hoover Style C bags. It's a massive pain in the ass to avoid spilling dirt all over your floor. The Convertible itself is not a bad vacuum, just the bags. I much prefer the top fill Hoover Style A bags.

 

[huskyvacs]

...and that little spring you have to try and get around the bag and end up tearing the neck of the bag and causing it to leak dirt gets irritating really fast. it also seems like it never grips tight enough to seal the bag either.

 

[jo]

See no dirt, smell no dirt, touch no dirt

Well, I started using vacuums with the Electrolux canister here in the US with their self sealing bags, simple and easy to change...open the door, the bag automatically closes at that time, slide out the the full bag, drop in a new bag and the bag door automatically opens the new fresh bag and the cleaner runs like the day it was new...then someone decided bagless was a good idea.....NOT.... I’ve tried them all to resort back to the Electrolux and even when my small shop vac died, I replaced it with an old Electrolux canister so there would be no issue in dealing with nasty remodeling dust and dirt. I’ve had to suck up roach and rat poop from inside walls, old rat nests of insulation, etc. yes, this is gross, but having this nastiness sealed in the bag is the way to go for sure...I don’t want to see, smell, or touch that grossness.

 

[lesinutah]

Central

I think central vacs are going to gain more popularity.
There just can't be beat.
Les

 

[jake1234]

Bags!

Thanks for the replies guys, I noticed a lot of you were saying how bags never disappeared from the UK market which your right- they didn't. What I am saying is during the 1980's nearly every machine over here took paper bags. It was only the very very very low end machines that didn't. The low end machines (mainly cylinders) came with a dirt cup that you coould tip the muck out of then it would click back onto the machine. In the late 70's and early 80's Hoover even offered a senior ranger style cleaner that had a dirt cup instead of the soft bag. However this machine was of commercial grade and wasnt meant for domestic use. It didnt last very long before being discontinued as companies were choosing the bagged models over the bagless one. Hoover in the UK dont even make any commercial machines at all now and havnt done scince about 2000 I think. I know you guys still have a commercial portapower over there from Hoover US but we dont even have that. Sadly things are very different over here since the 80's now and yes your completely right there always have been bagged machines over here but since Dyson came along the numbers of bagged machines have gradually reduced, especially uprights. Like I said I know you can get sebo and vorwerk and kirby but compared to years ago when there must of been about 500 different bagged uprights on the UK market every year now there is about 5. Theres not many bagged machines at all but even less with the uprights. We have quite a few budget bagged cylinders so I have no idea why we have only 1 budget bagged upright! I dont know about the US but in the UK there is no doubt about it we are a nation of upright lovers. The most common type of vacuum cleaner over here by far is the bagless upright, but I feel if more bagged uprights were offered we would see this change. Panasonics were very popular over but then they stopped selling to the UK market (no idea why) so that saw lots of people that would choose a bagged upright either being forced to choose a Hoover Purepower or a bagless model.

 

[human]

The only real direct experience I've ever had with a bagless plasticrap vac—and it was more than enough—was when I had a girlfriend who lived with me about 10 years ago or so and she insisted I vacuum the apartment with her bagless Bissell POS and empty and clean it each time. Note that she never vacuumed herself. By the time I got through cleaning out the dust cup and filters, I was covered with dust. It was enough to permanently put me off that type of machine. To top things off, she also tried to give away my Electrolux 1205, which was the only vacuum I owned at the time. Fortunately, she's gone—and that damned Bissell along with her—but the 1205 is still with me.

 

[cmbcool01]

A suggestion

We all know that generally speaking bagged vacuums last longer and are filtered better so i suggest if you want bagged to make a comeback (as I do as well) then consider that friend or relative that's constantly going through bagless vacuums every year and complaining about it mabye consider going out to buy a bagged vacuum and gift it to them if it's better then hopefully they will stick with it and be more likely to replace it with another bagged vacuum down the line, just a thought to contemplate

 

[dysonman1]

In 1937, The Air-Way Corporation launched the Air-Way Sanitizor. It was the first 'canister' vacuum with a disposable bag in the world. With 14 layers of cellulose, the air had to weave its way through - there were no direct pores. When full, you simply open the lid and moisten the back of the seal. The seals came 12 to a pack, like the bags. The seal was placed over the small open hole of the bag, sealing it completely. Then, and only then, did you lift the disposable bag out of the machine. Many people with incinerators would cremate the dirt and germs by burning the sealed bag. That's why they called it the "Sanitizor". Almost 100 years ahead of its time.

 

[fan-of-fans]

US vacuums right now with bags seem mostly in the higher end market. Such as Sebo, Simplicity, Miele, Tacony, etc and of course door to door Kirby, Lux, etc.

You would be hard pressed to find a bag vacuum in most "big box" stores these days. Look at Walmart, home centers, etc. I think you'll only find one bagged Bissell at Walmart, none at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.

Sears really pushed bagged machines for some reason in their Kenmore (Panasonic) machines. Some bagless, but their main focus was HEPA bagged models. With Sears just about gone, that last holdout are disappearing from a lot of markets as well.

I think the bagless revolution in the late 1990s-early 2000s (Especially that after Dyson entered in the US market) really convinced people that bagless is best and Dyson especially. Bissell jumped on it too, so that's what you see in the big box stores, because they know they will sell well.

I think Hoover hardly sell any bagged with their discontinuing the Tempo and Windtunnel Self Propelled. You mentioned the Convertible with dust cup, they still sell a model like that here, the Guardsman commercial, and also the Conquest.

They do sell a few bagged uprights and canister machines (including the classic Portapower) under the commercial line, and even a new cordless upright model, so perhaps they are here to stay in the commercial segment. Same with Windsor, Sanitaire, etc.

 

[rivstg1]

Dysonman1

very interesting background on the Airway stuff! wow, I had no idea bagged vacuums started with them in '37!!

 

[mike811]

In Finland bagless vacuums have never really gained huge popularity.
For example if one net store sells 20 bagged vacuums, they only sell 11 bagless vacuums. People have found cons of the bagless vacuums.
Bagged canister is by far the most common vacuum type here and I am glad about that.
Most popular bagged vacuum here is the Electrolux. Second is Miele.
Most popular bagless vacuum is Dyson.

 

[jo]

Here in the US

Higher end machines are all bagged. Customers demanding a “better vacuum cleaner” go to vacuum stores and walk out usually with a bagged machine. Customers buying a machine on their own without guidance from a salesperson such as at a big box store usually end up with bagless as they are not told of the issues and needed filter cleanings of bagless. Dyson, which supposedly was marketed as never losing suction loses suction too when the filter clogs. They all do...it’s was misleading of Dyson to say his machine don’t lose suction. They are better at not losing suction than others as their system uses a high number of cyclones, but it will still lose suction if the filter is not cleaned at the intervals recommended.

Bagged vacs may not make a comeback because the bagless plastivac manufacturers are understanding that their earlier filtration methods clogged too fast and are improving them slowly to be better about preventing the filters from clogging. So I think it’s going to be a while before bagged suddenly become a majority once again. Plus the low end consumer usually buys a cheap vacuum because that’s all they have the budget for and so they see not having to buy bags as a money saving method for the life of the vacuum. The reality is when an uneducated consumer goes to buy a vacuum in a big box store...they look at the fact that it doesn’t need bags as a plus...they look at the general overall looks of the product and also what attachments it comes with...pretty much in that order and make a selection from the ones that fit into the amount of money they are willing to spend on the product. If these people have never used a higher end bagged vacuum they may not even know much better dirt encapsulation and better durability machines are out there in the high end market because the
One machines are not sold in the same stores as cheaper vacuums.

My housekeeper and my niece are perfect examples...neither of them had ever seen a US Electrolux vacuum. When they saw mine they were very perplexed. My housekeeper came to love using mine and my niece, while she never used it was certainly intrigued by it because it was so different from anything she was familiar with.

I usually find that young people start out the the lower end budget vacuums, then after a while they get older and make more money and also start getting frustrated with the low end vacuums and spend a bit more when replacing and some finally start moving to higher quality products that take bags..such as an Oreck, Shark or a Dyson if they want to stay bagless and in a medium budget. Finally those who suffer from allergies or just really start wanting a higher quality product move into the range of Miele, Aerus, Sebo, riccar, simplicity, Panasonic and so on. Kenmore, which sold Panasonic clones is almost extinct with the elimination of sears stores. While some sears stores still exist and the vacuums were good for the most part, people will be steered away because they know the brand will go away along with the stores. Sears sold the Craftsman tool products division to Lowe’s.....perhaps they should consider the same with Kenmore vacuums to keep the following there is for the product perhaps. A lot of people have no idea that Kenmore vacuums were made by Panasonic so if they want to buy a Kenmore that they should just consider a Panasonic now.

Low end units that took bags also were often very messy to change the bag, the bags often were not very good quality and leaked as well and did not seal themselves. When they were replaced by bagless versions, it was actually seen as an upgrade, despite the maintenance needed which many fail to do or are just lazy to be diligent about doing to maintain the top performance of their machine.

There is one major plus on bagless vacuums that remains...since they can be emptied after every vacuuming they often don’t obtain a smelly existence, especially in homes where pets are present and pets that pee on carpet so that becomes a major plus to some people. The odor can be prevented in a bagged vacuum by changing the bag after every use, but that does get costly in bag expense.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Kenmore/Panasonic

Panasonic actually does not manufacture vacuums to sell in the US any longer. They sold their engineering and tooling (and sent majority of their engineers) to Cleva Corporation. Cleva makes the current Kenmore vacuums, but many look identical to the Panasonic made models.

In the last year or so Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart and QVC have started to sell many of the Kenmore models on their websites (but in special colors and feature sets different than the ones sold specifically at Sears stores).

Cleva also makes some Kenmore canister vacuums under the Titan brand, which they sell through vacuum shops. Mostly either previous Kenmore models or ones that are differentiated slightly.

As far as younger people going for the cheaper vacuums I think you are correct. Although these days it is also the trend to go with all hard flooring, and many people see hard floors as meaning no vacuum is required, since there is no carpet it means they just need to run a wet mop or a Swiffer over it and above the floor cleaning is something many also don't use a vacuum for, probably using a duster instead.

Plus younger people may not have much experience much with vacuums and don't give any thought to finding one other than what's at the local big box and is low in price.

For a lot of younger people I've heard talk, (I'm in this age group BTW) they seem to believe that Dyson is the best vacuum you can buy. Electrolux, Rainbow, Kirby, etc are not brands they think of, if they did they probably think they are all old/outdated and no longer made.

I find that most cleaning people like to use a better quality vacuum, than just something cheap and prefer to go with a commercial vacuum or some type of canister over just a cheap bagless upright.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

yes.

It seems that very young people grew up thinking/seeing vacuum cleaners as things you replace easily. Some seem to view Kirby, etc, as vacuums "Grandma" had. And, a lot will NEVER spend major $$ on a cleaner.