oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Explain how the quality of them has deteriorated.
What do you think of the new numatics?
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numaticrule29
Well-known member
I agree with turbo500
I think the build quality has defanatly gone down hill. I have many older numatics from 1988 onwards. I see many broken auto save henrys on eBay saying "not working" etc. My favourite numatic has to be my cream and brown Henry. It's got every thing except the brown hose and tool adaptor! I would say that it is much better than the James by a long way!
I think the build quality has defanatly gone down hill. I have many older numatics from 1988 onwards. I see many broken auto save henrys on eBay saying "not working" etc. My favourite numatic has to be my cream and brown Henry. It's got every thing except the brown hose and tool adaptor! I would say that it is much better than the James by a long way!
turbo500
Well-known member
Explain how the quality of them has deteriorated
Given that I don't work in the factory, I can't provide a detailed explaination. I'm sure someone on here is far more of an expert on plastic science than I am. But in use, the plastic on the handle is a lot thinner, causing the handle to bend when carrying the machine. The cord rewind causes the whole machine to shake from side to side and you can hear the cheaper plastic internal parts do not work smoothly together. The older machine doesn't have this problem - the machine stays complete still when winding the cord in and the cord rewind is smooth. It also feels a lot tighter (for lack of a better word) fitted to the top of the machine.
The tools have also deteriorated in quality - the dusting brush now has cheaper bristles instead of the high quality, soft bristles previously used. Same with the hard floor tool which uses to be made of horse hair. The tool adapater used to be made of hard, glossy, smooth plastic and is now made of a rough, matt plastic that is considerably thinner than the older version.
The overall build quality of the machine is less solid than it used to be. The plastic on the body is thinner and more prone to scuffing - the older machines seem to be made of higher quality, thicker and more rigid plastic.
I'm sure it's already been said elsewhere about the cheaper quality motor in the current machines too.
Until you've actually put both cleaners side by side, it's difficult to understand just how much the build quality has deteriorated. Nothing to hinder the performance of the machine, but certainly noticeable. I don't think Numatic are alone in this though and I don't think it's restricted to vacuums. Everyone is cost-cutting to keep their prices low with rising production costs - without prices going up, it's envitable that cuts would be made somewhere.
Given that I don't work in the factory, I can't provide a detailed explaination. I'm sure someone on here is far more of an expert on plastic science than I am. But in use, the plastic on the handle is a lot thinner, causing the handle to bend when carrying the machine. The cord rewind causes the whole machine to shake from side to side and you can hear the cheaper plastic internal parts do not work smoothly together. The older machine doesn't have this problem - the machine stays complete still when winding the cord in and the cord rewind is smooth. It also feels a lot tighter (for lack of a better word) fitted to the top of the machine.
The tools have also deteriorated in quality - the dusting brush now has cheaper bristles instead of the high quality, soft bristles previously used. Same with the hard floor tool which uses to be made of horse hair. The tool adapater used to be made of hard, glossy, smooth plastic and is now made of a rough, matt plastic that is considerably thinner than the older version.
The overall build quality of the machine is less solid than it used to be. The plastic on the body is thinner and more prone to scuffing - the older machines seem to be made of higher quality, thicker and more rigid plastic.
I'm sure it's already been said elsewhere about the cheaper quality motor in the current machines too.
Until you've actually put both cleaners side by side, it's difficult to understand just how much the build quality has deteriorated. Nothing to hinder the performance of the machine, but certainly noticeable. I don't think Numatic are alone in this though and I don't think it's restricted to vacuums. Everyone is cost-cutting to keep their prices low with rising production costs - without prices going up, it's envitable that cuts would be made somewhere.
turbo500
Well-known member
many broken auto save henrys on eBay
The AutoSave's had issues with PCB failure. A lot of repairers actually bypassed this so that the machine could only be used on high power. I believe this was rectified later in the production run - Sam (Beko1987) knows something about this, I think. Sorry to name-drop if you don't Sam!
The AutoSave's had issues with PCB failure. A lot of repairers actually bypassed this so that the machine could only be used on high power. I believe this was rectified later in the production run - Sam (Beko1987) knows something about this, I think. Sorry to name-drop if you don't Sam!
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Well you have to remember plastics have changed in recent years. They are made from more recycled materials and there is a constant push for weight saving.
The bristles on the dusting brush on henrys are natural horse haris aren't they? And given the fact henrys have been less than £100 for several years, i dont think they have cut corners too much. Henrys are still well built and very reliable.
The bristles on the dusting brush on henrys are natural horse haris aren't they? And given the fact henrys have been less than £100 for several years, i dont think they have cut corners too much. Henrys are still well built and very reliable.
numaticrule29
Well-known member
Henry auto save PCB bypass
I do that all the time. The auto save idea was crap I and that single speed is best. For example, my 1990 henry is very reiable. I brought it for £1.50 at local second hand shop. It was missing the tools and filter and it didn't work. All it was, it was the cable had a break in it (very common on vacuum cleaners) but after that was repaired the motor ran as sweet as a nut.
Here's a picture of it.
Daniel.
I do that all the time. The auto save idea was crap I and that single speed is best. For example, my 1990 henry is very reiable. I brought it for £1.50 at local second hand shop. It was missing the tools and filter and it didn't work. All it was, it was the cable had a break in it (very common on vacuum cleaners) but after that was repaired the motor ran as sweet as a nut.
Here's a picture of it.
Daniel.
turbo500
Well-known member
I like the twin speed model, just not the AutoSave. It was a bit of a gimmick although I suppose it opened people's eyes to not needing crazy wattages.
No, it's definitely not horse hair anymore. As I said, I don't think it's enough to effect performance or reliability. I'm still a major advocate for Numatic's, but when compared with the older models, there is a noticeable quality difference. As you said Oli, Numatic have managed to keep Henry at a very reasonable price so it's kind of to be expected.
No, it's definitely not horse hair anymore. As I said, I don't think it's enough to effect performance or reliability. I'm still a major advocate for Numatic's, but when compared with the older models, there is a noticeable quality difference. As you said Oli, Numatic have managed to keep Henry at a very reasonable price so it's kind of to be expected.
numaticrule29
Well-known member
The dusting brushes are definitely not horse hair any more as turbo500 said and to be honest with you I don't rarely use a dusting brush. But for the people who do, if I was you, by a replacement brush from somewhere.
turbo500
Well-known member
God, I use a dusting brush all the time! I dust nearly everything with the vacuum rather than a duster. I tend to use the old Lux butterfly tool though
sebo_fan
Well-known member
When I had my James vac, I preferred to use old Hoover Telios dusting tools. Much more manageable.
The Eco Henry I owned for a short while also had a non-washable filter basket. The older James I owned was fitted with a washable one. It is true that Numatic have cut corners with a few design aspects but nothing major in my opinion, or barely noticeable to NON-collector buyers.
The Eco Henry I owned for a short while also had a non-washable filter basket. The older James I owned was fitted with a washable one. It is true that Numatic have cut corners with a few design aspects but nothing major in my opinion, or barely noticeable to NON-collector buyers.
numaticrule29
Well-known member
Well sometimes I use a dusting brush, but very rarely. My mum mainly does the dusting (yes I am 13 and live at home). We share it. I do the hoovering and she does the dusting.
thermokid
Well-known member
Numatics
I love my Henry Xtra... But now I am looking for a purple numatic.. I think they are James.. I am not sure...
I love my Henry Xtra... But now I am looking for a purple numatic.. I think they are James.. I am not sure...
thermokid
Well-known member
My Mistake
I meant to say a Lewis not a James.. Anybody know where I can buy a Purple Numatic that runs on 110 ?
I meant to say a Lewis not a James.. Anybody know where I can buy a Purple Numatic that runs on 110 ?
numaticrule29
Well-known member
A Lewis that runs on 110v
You can not get one. They where only sold in the uk in John Lewis stores and where 240v uk
You can not get one. They where only sold in the uk in John Lewis stores and where 240v uk
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
The simple fact that they have kept the price the same for several year kind of outweighs the cost cutting, although i am not convinced that those things would hamper reliability too much. Thing is, people would rather pay less for something with less quality, than better quality at a higher price. Even if Numatic sold the henry for £140 which i think is a fair price for a British built machine, which is still a well made machine.
turbo500
Well-known member
Oli, I agree with you. Like I said, I don't think any dips in quality have been enough to cause any problems in performance or reliability. Infact, I think the current models are better cleaners than the AutoSaves and the twin speed models with the push-down switch (those were the most unreliable Numatics ever made!). It wasn't a criticsm of the cleaner or Numatic as a company - as I've said, the current Henry is my main cylinder at the moment. It was just an observation as a vacuum collector.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Well the price hasn't actually stayed the same. It has fluctuated between £90 to £120 brand new. Its only been in the last couple of years and thanks in part to Tesco where Numatic has been on sale from £70 rather than closer to £100.
Personally I'd like to see twin suction telescopic tubes as opposed to the fixed height and somewhere at least on the machine that gives a bag full indication. It isn't hard to do - I've seen other tub style vacuums that have a bag indicator on them. Numatic know what they could do, but they are intentionally keeping things basic to perhaps eliminate things that will go wrong short term.
Personally I'd like to see twin suction telescopic tubes as opposed to the fixed height and somewhere at least on the machine that gives a bag full indication. It isn't hard to do - I've seen other tub style vacuums that have a bag indicator on them. Numatic know what they could do, but they are intentionally keeping things basic to perhaps eliminate things that will go wrong short term.
turbo500
Well-known member
Henry's have always been around £100. I've only ever seen them go over that in mail order catalogues like Kays and Grattan, where prices are higher than the high street anyway. When Curry's sold them in the mid-late 90's, they were always £99.
The priciest I've seen them as of late is £109 (excluding Bright House, of course) and that's in Very. Again, a credit company and I guess the modern, online equivilant of the mail order catalogues.
The priciest I've seen them as of late is £109 (excluding Bright House, of course) and that's in Very. Again, a credit company and I guess the modern, online equivilant of the mail order catalogues.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
James is currently on sale at Tesco for £109 and £92 at Co Op. A shame really. I think that's a bit high when originally mine cost £74 many many moons ago.
I find that once you've had a Henry in your life, its difficult to go back to a James model because the James model hose is a great deal shorter and at times ankle bashing can occur. Also I got the hellish "lighter" painted grey aluminium pipes with James that were inclined to fall off half way through cleaning even when they were tightly screwed together.
I find that once you've had a Henry in your life, its difficult to go back to a James model because the James model hose is a great deal shorter and at times ankle bashing can occur. Also I got the hellish "lighter" painted grey aluminium pipes with James that were inclined to fall off half way through cleaning even when they were tightly screwed together.
turbo500
Well-known member
The hose length on the current James is the same as Henry. It's been like that since the AutoSave's.
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