Vacuum cleaner horsepower question

[animasinsulin]

Why is it that in the 80's vacuum makers stopped ratings with horsepower to amps. I had a Fantom that has 12 amps but it is weak....Bill in Az....

 

[tristar]

Because the Horsepower rating was total Bull S&*t. Electrically one Horsepower is equal to 746 watts. You can't get 4.3 HP out of a 115V plug in the US! That would be a 3200W machine!!! In other words, 26 amps.

The manufacturers prey on the ignorance of the buyers thinking that they'll associate amperage with vacuum performance. If it has 12 amps, it MUST be powerful right?

Wrong.....I can think of 4 PRIME examples where amps don't clean better:

1: TriStar CXL (8.7 amp suction motor)
2: Sanitaire (7 amp, 840W motor)
3: Kirby (6 amp classic, 7 amp Generation motor)
4: Royal Upright (Most powerful I own is a 6 amp.....I can't even imagine one of the 9 or 10 amp ones).

And of course the famous argument for amps NOT cleaning: Vintage Hoovers. Take the 700 for example.....1.8 amp motor and it'll probably outclean 90% of the vacuums on the market today.

Amps don't clean. Horsepower doesn't clean. Airflow + agitation cleans.

 

[vintagehoover]

Watts/amps tell you nothing but how much electricity you're wasting on a task which could be achieved using much less!

The machines Eric has given as examples clearly demonstrate the craziness of these high-power vacs - we have cleaners which consume up to 2600w over here! And if you compare their air-watt ratings with those of much lower powered cleaners, you can see how little difference the extra energy consumption makes to the cleaner's ability to perform. Far more important are the simplicity and width of air ducts, design of brush-roll, surface area of bags, resistance of filters etc.

These high-rated motors have been in vogue for a while, but many manufacturers seem to be making a concious effort to lower the energy consumption of their machines now. Perhaps to improve reliability, perhaps as part of an effort to 'be green'.

 

[animasinsulin]

My Royal

Mine and Sara's Royals have the 9 amps. WAY TO STRONG!!! It sticks to the floor like glue and is way TOO loud. But it does clean like a dream....Bill in Az.... PS also use it on mattresses like on the floor instead....Bill in Az...

 

[jdinstl]

This is a subject that always gets me...

...because in the early days, I fell for the more is better numbers as well.

I have 3 Royals of the 6 amp variety. They are not vacuums, they are Urban Dirt Assault Machines. A 9 or 10 amp Royal? That's scary. The government should mandate a license to own and operate one of those. Geeze, that would not only suck up all my cheap carpeting, but the nails out of the subfloor!

And you're right about the sound. But when you need to bring the big guns out on the dirt, there's no better choice.

 

[animasinsulin]

My SK

My new Silver King is 7.5 amps and when empty the machine moves all over bare floor since the exhaust blows straight back.Most powerful vac. I've ever used. Just wish I knew the HP.....Bill in Az....

 

[tristar]

Find the wattage (120v x nameplate amperage) and divide it by 746. As a clue, the most powerful motor you can possibly plug into a 120V household socket is a 2 horse motor on a 15 amp outlet.

So let's do the math: 120v x 7.5A = 900w

900w/746= 1.2 HP

Clear as mud?

 

[animasinsulin]

WOW

Thanks soo much Eric!!! Im not good at math whatsoever, never have been and probably
never will but I have other talents thank gawd!! Thanks again.....Bill in Az.....

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

My 1979 Wards Power II Canister ...

has a 3 peak HP rating, but uses only 10 amps, which translates as 1200 watts on 120V current.

Actual physical horsepower of this unit would be 1.6 HP after dividing the wattage by 745.7. But it would have the equivalent of a 3 HP motor.

~Ben

 

[tristar]

It's a 1.6 HP motor.......HOW is that equivalent to a 3 HP motor? Horsepower is Horsepower. There's not different "levels" of horsepower. Peak horsepower means precisely nothing. It's about like saying your car has 120 horsepower, but it's "equivalent" to a 300 HP car! Yeah right.....

 

[hoover_elite_20]

Heh

My Shop vac claims to have 6.5 hp.
That translates to more than 40 amps!
I smell some bull s***!

 

[hoover_elite_20]

Though it must use alot of power

because sometimes if I don't turn off some extra things in the house I'll blow a curcuit! Thats a lot if power!

 

[animasinsulin]

Kirby Yahoo group

Some guy in this group said that the latest Kirby is a 1.5 HP. How does he know this???.....Bill in Az....

 

[hoover_elite_20]

Another nail in the coffin...

This thing is supposed to have 1 hp. Somehow I don't belive my shop vac or any other vac will have more than six times the horsepower of this massive 6 foot tall woodshop vacuum!

 

[kirbyotronic]

You want horsepower? Here's 507 of it.

~Alex

 

[vintageroyal611]

That is a really nice car.

 

[brandon_w_t]

Here is

around 2x that bmw. 1004 horsepower. 2 keys to start- one at 554 hp- 2nd key under seat to unlesh 1004 hp.

 

[kirbyotronic]

Wow, we just threw this thread off topic.

I still prefer Bavarian Motor Works, or you could say Best Motor Works! After all, it's a full sized family luxury sedan that goes like (you know what) off a shovel. I predict the next generation will be "fugly", just take a look at that new 7 series, talk about gross.

~Alex

 

[brandon_w_t]

lol

I dream of a BMW. My uncle had a 1989 BMW 750il V12, supercharged (!!!) with turbos and what not on it. New exhaust.

Man that thing was a beast. Well until he hit a patch of Ice in (yes) New mexico in April.

That thing would eat any other car on the road. XD I loved it. So fast. He almost considered taking it to germany to drive on the autobahn.


well we should get back to vacuums and HP. Any vacuum with 1 or more HP is a monster.

 

[aeoliandave]

Way way off thread but cars like these are far more automobile than the majority need, or could use properly. If one has the cash price then by all means, indulge. Lovely to look at, pose beside and sit in. That's why I go to the new & vintage Car Shows and Auto Museums where I find them across the nation. You get to look, touch and even sometimes sit in them...without the onerous responsibility of ownership and car payments.

Quite content in my 11 year old sleek & economical boat towing, vacuum hauling 175 HP Subaru Legacy GT Limited wagon and will be purchasing an off lease 2008 or 09 Black Obsidian or Newport Blue Legacy 2.5 GT Limited wagon in 2011.

Dave

 

[kirbyotronic]

No, the ///M5 is still very practical, with a spacious trunk for vacuum hauls. And it's under $100k, most cars over that are (most of the time) just "Loogit meeeee!!!!" cars. I could care less about a status symbol such as a car, all I want is performance, comfort, luxury, sporty, and something that is still practical.

~Alex

 

[tolivac]

I have a couple of the 10A Royals-older US built machines.their power isn't much more than the 7A ones-the dealer I bought them from dropped the 10A models from his stock when I showed him the 10A one didn't clean any better than the 7A models-and the 7A models are much quieter!.At present I have the Vita-mix "XL" 1.5Gallon blender-VM boasts a motor power of 4.2Hp for this machine-something doesn't add up-yes the blender is super powerful-probably the most powerful tabletop blender you can get.The 4.2Hp would be PEAK rating derived in a labortory.-not in typical use.Same with a vacuum cleanre motor-and a car motors for that matter.HP is cars is little meaning to me and others for the most part.You can move a human being with a vehicle equipped with a motor of LESS than 1/2 HP!Granted not as fast as the 1000hp car-but still MOVED.At work we have a 2700HP Cat generator-1.8MW cont. power and 2.2MW PK.The engine is 16 cylinder and just like on a locomotive-Cat even uses an engine model similar to the 3816(Gen engine we have)and supplies them to EMD locomotive division.Oh for the HP fanatics-my hybrid car has a 265Hp gas motor and a 130Hp electric one.More than enough to move me around.And remember those high HP car motors need----GAS!lots of it!!-the gen motor described earlier at my workplace-requires over 400G of deisel fuel pr hr of operation!glad I don't have to pay for it!There are two 7500g tanks that supply fuel to that MG set.

 

[animasinsulin]

Bledtec?

How would that blender compair to the Blentec blender. Look up willitblend.com.....Bill in Az....

 

[tolivac]

I have some Blendtec blenders too-a 20A Blendtec "Titan"-the new VM "XL" machine is 15A.the VM machine definlity has more torque.The motor is belted to the blade drive.the motor sits behind the container-remember the belt drive GE blenders on another thread?the VM XL is sort of like the GE machine but on steriods.the motor base weighs over 30pounds-the mass of a large KA mixer.In peaking thru the vent slots under the machine-you see a multigoove Kevlar belt going from the motor shaft pulley to the blender container pulley-and these are machine METAL pulleys.the Kevlar belt is sort of like what is on Riccar Brilliance,Radiance perm belt machines-same with Sebo.I have also dealt with these belts in power tools-belt sanders.small table saws.The Kevlar belts are tough.Also they are used on some DeWalt miter saws where the motor is behind the blade.Also Partner gas powered cutoff and rescue saws use these Kevlar belts.They are all around us.First time I saw one in a blender.I would think the VM XL would be more powerful than the Blendtec blender.
The "vacuum" shown in one of the pictures is a Shop-fox dust collector.This is used to collect sawdust, wood shavings, and chips from woodworking machines such as saws,planers,routers,etc.It is not intended to be used as a vacuum cleaner.The hose is 4"to 6" diameter on these machines-the Dust collectors have low suction pressure-but high CFM.The machine shown would probably be around 1200CFM.It is meant for a home work shop-like up to two machines.Larger ones use Cyclones-like a Dyson vacuum cleaner for commercial shops that have several woodworking machines going at once-and would have 5-15Hp motors.And on the workshop dust collector it has an induction motor-not a universal ones like vacuum cleaners have-and universal motors can have higher peak HP-again unusable ratings derived in the lab.to get those peak ratings-the motor is probably destroyed.-burnt out.
Oh yes-maybe VM should have a version of "WillitBlend" starring the XL blender.Would be interesting.Would think the XL could smash up anything put in it-don't wish to try that with mine.

 

[jdinstl]

Hmmmm...

tolivac said "You can move a human being with a vehicle equipped with a motor of LESS than 1/2 HP!"

You ain't met my sister-in-law.

That CAT 2700hp 16 cylinder you speak of might get her to budge, however...

 

[tristar]

OMG....

You owe me a keyboard John! I just spit rootbeer everywhere laughing when I read your last post!

 

[brandon_w_t]

well...

most central vacuums do not even have 1 hp. Maybe for a house larger than 5000 square feet, but for the average central, even from top companies like MD, they have around 20 amps.

 

[tristar]

1 HP = 746 watts. My Sanitaire with it's 7 amp motor (840w) is more than 1 HP.

 

[sireluxomatic]

Aside from the performance and efficiency issues of newer hyper-powered vacuums, there's also the consideration that older vacuums are, in a lot of cases, much more pleasant to use on almost every basis. My collection is stored at my folks' home, and I also have an Electrolux Epic 6500 that they use as their regular vacuum. Whenever I'm home and cleaning, I almost never use it. Instead, I turn to one of my old Luxes, with the easier-on-the-ears motor, the easier to use wand and hose handle setup, and the easier-on-the-eyes color and styling.