Two wires or three in a hose

[DesertTortoise]

I have older Kenmore canister vacuums with only two wires in the hose that allow the vacuum to be switched on and off at the hose end, and the powered brush can be switched on or off, either way, while the vacuum is running. It's a three position switch, off, on and floor.

More recent Kenmores have three wires to accomplish the same job. No motor speed control, just the same on/off and floor. Why? What does the extra wire accomplish and could I run a two wire cord with the old style switch on the hose end on a three wire vacuum and have everything function correctly?

 

[georgect]

I'm not sure...

But maybe the third wire is a ground wire added for safety.
Anybody else have an idea?

 

[sbakerde]

Did you have a power nozzle

If your vacuum uses an electric power nozzle you do have three wires. In order to run a power nozzle and activate the vacuum you must have three wires. It's not possible any other way.

 

[sbakerde]

No ground

One wire is power to switch. Second one goes from switch back to vacuum to activate the motor. Power comes from switch to power nozzle and third wire is the neutral from power nozzle all the way back to cord winder.

 

[DesertTortoise]

I got my answer today from the owner of a vacuum shop I frequent (I was picking up my next project....more to follow on that in the Vintage section).

The best of my older Kenmore canisters has a two wire hose, two prongs on the vacuum, and out on the hose end is three position switch: off/on/floor . There is no on/off switch on the vacuum. You turn the vacuum on from the hose, and you can have the powered brush on or off with the vacuum running. Today to get those functions on the hose you have to have three wires. My old vacuum with the two wire hose is all hard wired, no relays, fuses or anything. Wires are connected together with wire nuts like inside your home. One wire is power from the cord reel to the switch on the hose with nothing in between, the other wire completes the circuit to ground. The switch can energise the vacuum alone, or the vacuum and Powermate together through the same ground. That set up is apparently frowned on today for safety reasons. It's been trouble free for us for three decades but the insurance companies know better of course.

On the three wire systems, one wire turns the motor on, one turns the powermate on, and the middle wire runs to a relay that takes signals from the other two wires. The relay is a safety feature so the vacuum can meet a UL (Underwriters Laboratories: underwriters means insurance companies telling vacuum makers what to do) specification for safety.

I learn something new every day.

 

[sbakerde]

Check your machine end of hose

Even on an old kenmore there are three prongs one the machine end. The only way to have two wires is to run the two motors in series which will cause them to run at half power due to the added electrical resistance of the second motor. Two pins at the nozzle end is for the power nozzle only. That doesn't effect the location of the switch.

 

[rugsucker]

3--2 and 4

Older 5023 and earlier as well as first 5055 types had 2 wire at each end.Some of the more odd and rarely seen models such as bagless canister use 4.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Which vacuum are you referring to? Could you post a photo? I believe the first Kenmore with controls on handle was early 1980s last of the 5033 bag machines, just before the newer 5055 bag models came along. This had a switch for Off-suction only- or suction and PN near the PN plug. I don't know how many wires. Then with the first 5055 bag machines the TOL had the Power Handle with touch pad controls for canister and PN motors as well as to increase/decrease suction. Also a bag change indicator and flashing light to indicate tripped PN motor protector was on handle. Again don't recall how many wires.

By the 90s if they had the controls on handle they definitely had three wires. If you only have the control for the PN on/off and main power button is on canister itself, you only have two wires. The current lime BOL canister is set up this way, but orange canister with PN and canister on/off on handle has three wires as well as all Progressives with PN and canister on/off and suction control.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Nope. Look at the images of my lunch box shaped cream 4.1 canister model number 116.2399182 . We bought that vacuum in 1982. There is no on/off switch on the vacuum body, only a dial to select the infinitely variable motor speed. The switch on the hose selects between vacuum off, vacuum on but powered brush off, and vacuum on and powered brush on. You can switch the powered brush on and off with the vacuum running. The socket on the vacuum has only two prongs and it's an old style straight hose, not a swivel hose. I just took detailed images but have to wait until I get home sometime Saturday to upload and post them.

 

[DesertTortoise]

I should have mentioned that the images of the cream colored 4.1 are in the Vintage section under More Kenmore Porn. Sorry. I will post up some detailed images tomorrow probably so you can see.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Yes, that's the model I'm thinking of being the first with the switch on handle.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Here are some images of that old 4.1. The switch on the hose turns the vacuum motor on and off and turns the Powermate on and off when the vacuum motor is running. As you can see there are only two pins coming out of the vacuum and the hose is a two wire hose that has been repaired using now out of production two wire Sears hose stock and the original ends.

 

[cuffs054]

Desert, my relatively new KM Progressive (the possessed one) has the two wire setup also. Works great.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Cuffs54, do you mean two wires where the hose connects to the vacuum? I thought all Progressives had three wires on the vacuum and a relay to switch between vacuum on/off and Powermate on/off? Does your Progressive turn the vacuum motor on and off at the hose switch or is there an on/off switch on the vacuum body? Did you buy it new with a two wire set up? Maybe a previous owner did a little low budget, um, innovating and this is the reason it is "possessed".

 

[cuffs054]

Desert, nope it came that way. Both ends of the hose have 2 connectors. There is no power switch on the cannister just on the hose. Positions are OFF, VACUUM ON, VAC ON WITH EITHER PN. I would guess this set up is what the circuit board is for. There is a earlier post explains how they do it.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Cuffs, what is the earlier post so I can look it up? Muey interresante amigo.

 

[cuffs054]

Desert, number 286957. I think you posted it