Tristar Compact Hepa Filter - How Much Is Enough?

[Sanifan]

Hi, all!

Can you tell me if it's a good idea to use both the dome shaped pleated Hepa motor pre-filter in conjunction with the outboard mushroom Hepa output filter on a Tristar CXL, or is that too much?

I understand that any type of fine pored-filter will negatively impact suction and airflow. Is it better to use both? If only one, which is the better choice? The dome filter protects the motor, of course.

What would you do?

 

[twocvbloke]

I'm using the dome filter on it's own in my Tristar, the "buttplug" filter is stored for safekeeping (you can't buy hem new at all any more, only the little "Filter fresh" filters which are severely restricting), and the amount of carbon dust blowing out the back end is negligible so only needs the diffuser to stop the thing blowing pictures off the wall and ornaments off shelves...

You can use both if you like, but the big filter sticking out of it's exhaust can get caught up on furniture which could end up breaking it, which wouldn't be good...

 

[Sanifan]

I have the Filter Fresh...

So the Filter Fresh is not so good? Agh! Would you recommend using it at all if it's so constricting?

 

[danemodsandy]

What I Use:

I use the standard motor filter and the standard flat-disc afterfilter. I do not have allergies that require HEPA.

Since there are four levels of filtration in a TriStar (paper bag, cloth bag, motor filter and afterfilter), I do not see dust again for a good while after vacuuming thoroughly. It is a very noticeable difference from my Luxes, which have only one level of filtration - the paper bag. And the inside of the vac stays clean, as well, so I don't think any dust to speak of is blowing into my motor and fan. The motor filter collects a very light residue of dust that I wash away a couple of times a year. It's not enough dust to knock off the filter, more like a slight soiling - something like dirty clothes.

My personal feeling is that since I don't have allergies, and since I'm a frequent vacuumer, I don't need any more than the standard TriStar filtration, which is already four times more than many vacs give you.

 

[twocvbloke]

Just get an exhaust diffuser and a HEPA dome filter and you'll be sorted...

There's a part of the filter that you can pull out to open it up a bit, but, I've forgotten what part it is, I think it's the black foam pad, but heck, there's only three parts in there, so easy to do trial & error testing...

 

[floor-a-matic]

HEPA filter

I ONLY use the pre-motor HEPA dome filter AND the regular flat disc exhaust filter on the TriStar & Compacts because I have allergies; & there hasn't been a significant reduction in airflow & suction.

 

[floor-a-matic]

Exhaust filter

Has anyone tried this filter here on the TriStar's exhaust? If so, how good does the vac work?

This filter is washable, but VERY expensive.

http://www.air-storm.com/collections/frontpage/products/washable-room-air-filter

 

[twocvbloke]

I have that "VacFX" filter in my Tristar, and yup, no loss of suction, and the filter is still a pristine white, even with single-layer paper bags & the cloth bag...

That 2nd filter looks pretty darned ugly though, probably works, but, I wouldn't want to try it myself... :&#92

 

[aeoliandave]

I have a few of these early 'Space Needle Restaurant' IEC after-motor filters that contain a replaceable pleated ring cased in a metal diamond mesh with rubber gasket rings, inside the transparent smoked plastic 'tower'. Reminds me of a Holley carb air filter and may very well be with IEC roots in industrial aircraft standards.The tapered end is a match for the hose coupler and and does fit the angled exhaust port but really only looks good and right on a Compact with the oval vertical exhaust port.


It does not pretend to be HEPA and even so I have yet to see one blackened by carbon.


But because of it's precarious exposure to obstacles, whatever the mounting angle, they are usually found with the lower tube snapped off.


 


The 'butt plug' mushroom filters I've examined are nothing more than a black scouring pad disk sandwiched between two open cell foam discs of slightly different porosities - hardly HEPA in my books.


 


But if you are one who believes in the advertised effectiveness of domestic HEPA what does it matter how ugly it is?


And they are unnecessarily ugly lumps on such a sculptured and powerful vacuum. In the end the Compact/Tristar  is an extremely well made and functioning machine from its inception, that needs only the pre-motor filter as preventive maintenance should either of the bags inexplicably leak. As Sandy points out The Compact was ahead of the competition from the get-go such that decades later the tweaks to the system seem to be more marketing department driven - to keep up with the fads - than engineering mandated.


 


Dave

 

[twocvbloke]

Somehow I don't think that Compact was meant to have a buttplug filter fitted, it obstructs the power switch, rendering it somewhat ineffective... :&#92

Anyway, the pictured filter is what I refer to as the "buttplug" filters, seeing as it is inserted into the exhaust, with the small engine air filter fitted (seriously, I've actually found filters, though not bought, to match meant for engines!!), and engine air filters are pretty much HEPA rated (after all you wouldn't want fine dust entering and ruining your engine) so are perfect for the job, that is until the dome filters came along removing the need for the external filter, just an exhaust diffuser cap...

The FilterFresh filters though as mentioned are not as effective as the dome or the buttplug, but as the former is easier to come by, then I'd recommend the dome filter and a plain and simple exhaust diffuser...

 

[danemodsandy]

Dave's Right -

The Filter-Fresh afterfilter is really, truly UGLY - a horrible excrescence that detracts from the beautiful looks of the Compact/TriStar design.

Comments here about the afterfilter obstructing the switch pedal and its susceptibility to damage are also correct.

One of the problems with a Filter-Fresh getting knocked off is that the filter basket (the plastic exhaust port the Filter-Fresh mounts into) can also be cracked or broken; my CXL had that problem when I got it. The filter basket is pop-riveted into place, meaning I had to drill out old rivets while being careful not to damage the gasket for the basket, and rivet in a new one, re-using the gasket. It was a lot of trouble, but I wanted the machine right.

 

[Sanifan]

Yikes! I paid $28 for my Filter Fresh outboard filter. But now I'm hesitant to use it. I think I'm careful enough to keep it fron knocking into things. I'm mostly worried about the constriction and impact on airflow and performance. Anyone have any positive experiences with this filter? It's the cream colored mushroom/knob shaped outboard filter.

Floor-o-vac, that filter you posted looks totally homemade. It's giving me an idea, actually. One could find a fiber-reinforced automotive-type rubber hose that friction fits into the exhaust port of the Tristar. On top of that, one could fashion some sort of cage that would accept, let's say, a replaceable Eureka Hepa filter.... oh, wait, that's what they've made, there. It just gives me a light bulb moment that I could probably fashion my own outboard Hepa filter with some thought and tinkering.

My GF has a lot of allergies, so good filtration is a must in my situation. At this point I'll just try the pre-motor dome Hepa filter and see how it goes.

 

[twocvbloke]

Talking about home-made filters, I remember seeing a home-made filter on someone's rather barstewardised Compact (sprayed silver too, badly!!) on ebay, they used an older-style Kirby elbow tool, sprayed silver, glued it into the exhaust, and glued an automotive cone-shaped filter onto it, and as the Kirby elbow was free to rotate, the thing was bound to catch on something and break immediately... :S

I'm not sure you'd be able to friction-fit a filter onto the tristar's exhaust, the volume of air it blows out is immense, enough that you could stand behind it and dry your hair without kneeling down (yeah, I've dine that!!), so any friction-fitting device would most likely be blasted into the next room via the wall... :S

As I've said about the FilterFresh though, if you remove I think the sponge part, it'll work better and allow the vac to breathe more, but like I say, I prefer to use the dome filter and exhaust diffuser...

I really should get pictures of the two...

 

[suckolux]

we keep talking tri stars and I may have to get one! 59 in the closet, more memories, had an 81, loose feeling power head put me off then. maybe different now

 

[kirbylux77]

Patriot Medik-Aire HEPA filter....

Khoi, I would not use the Filter Fresh filter on a TriStar. I have one, but never use it....It DOES restrict airflow signifigantly, plus I also found that the pleated filter clogged quickly with fine dust, too. And Sandy makes an excellent point of how easily the filter basket can be damaged if the Filter Fresh gets knocked off while in use.

I have the VacFX Dome HEPA filter, & I use it with my Miracle Mate, as there is no way of using an external filter with either Miracle Mate or Vortech Force. They are a good quality filter & seems to do it's job well, but the only thing I don't like about it is you don't get much filtering material- after all, there's only so much they can stuff inside the dome. And the dome filters also have to be replaced every 6 months. Also, there is no way to filter carbon dust. So, as much as they are good, I would only use it on a vacuum that there is no way to use an external filter.

There is another option here that I'm sure never entered the minds of my fellow posters here. One of the TriStar copies, the Patriot vacuum, has the Medik-Aire HEPA filter. It was basically Patriot's take on the "buttplug" filter. It does look massive- it literally looks like they put a balloon on the back of the vacuum- but it does an excellent job of filtering! I would dare anyone on here to find a better HEPA filter than it on ANY vacuum....you're not gonna find a better one. The filter comes mounted onto a metal tube, & it twists into place same as if you were to use the TriStar as a blower with the hose attached. The filter fits very tightly- it does not come off easily while in use. Patriot claims this filter will last for 3 years before it needs changing, but I feel that's being conservative....I think it should last at least 5 years before it needs changing, if you were to wash the cloth filter bag & foam filter inside the dome every 6 months. The only drawback is the filter is VERY expensive....they ask $200 dollars for it brand new, whether purchased direct or thru a distributor. But to me, it's worth it, especially when you consider what some other HEPA filters from other manufacturers, such as Miele, sell for. You would find that over the course of 5 years you would easily spend over $200 dollars replacing HEPA filters in some other vacuums.

If you are worried about the filter basket on the TriStar becoming damaged, the filter basket from the Patriot can be used on the TriStar. They are identical, with the difference being the Patriot's filter basket has a metal pin, not plastic.

Another option would be to use the Vortech Force MicroFilter. This is essentially the same thing as the dome HEPA filter, except larger. But, again, you would have no way of filtering carbon dust from the motor.

The link below is to Patriot's website, showing the Medik-Aire HEPA filter.

Rob

http://www.homedefensesystem.com/filtrati.htm

 

[Sanifan]

Medik-Aire...

Thanks for the suggestion, Rob. I did, in fact, just find out about the Medik-Aire filter today as I was looking around on the web for information. It looks serious! And like a seriously good hepa filter. Like you say, the price is a head turner. When something costs that much upfront, it takes some convincing of the self before you are comfortable making the purchase. From the look of it, it may be the one to get. I'm sure I'm going to purchase one sooner or later. I just have to get comfortable with the idea of spending that much in one felled swoop, even if it works out to a reasonable cost over time. I wish I hadn't purchased the Filter Fresh. That's $28 that could have gone towards a better filter.

How much of a concern is the carbon dust from the motor, btw? I've never heard it mentioned before. As most motors are of a similar design, I'm assuming it's an issue not unique to Tristar. Are there any serious health implications?

Thanks!

 

[Sanifan]

Another Medik-Aire link...

Here is another link to the Medik-Aire, but this one is on the same site that Erik provided for the homemade-looking filter. Curious that the home website for it is www.air-storm.com. Is this website officially tied to the Patriot company? If so, could the homemade-looking filter be any good? Even at $45 it's a lot less expensive than the Medik-Aire. And actually not that much more than the Filter Fresh, which folks so far dislike. The question is, is the filter actually any good?

It's curious that the two Medik-Aire filters look different on the two sites. One has a foam filter around the circumference, of course, but they still look slightly different.

http://www.air-storm.com/products/certified-hepa-filter

 

[twocvbloke]

There's a fun fact about filters:

Every filter has to be replaced or cleaned when it's pores become blocked, be it a $7.95 filter or a $200 filter...

With the VacFX one, you can wash it, just a half-cap of straight bleach and some washing liquid in warm water, drop the filter in, slop it about for a bit, soak the filter in there for about 20 minutes, then slop it about some more and then rinse under cold water, and allow to dry thoroughly before refitting...

I did just that with the filter from that vax foldaway I had, cleaned it up nicely and allowed it to breathe, the vac was still a POS but it was good to have something to practice on...

 

[danemodsandy]

Rob:

When you refer to the filter basket, are we talking about the same part?

Below is a detail from the parts diagram for the CXL/DXL/EX-20 machines. On the diagram, the filter basket is part No. 34. This piece is molded black plastic; it fits into the exhaust port, which has a flange drilled to accept two pop rivets that hold the filter basket in place. The filter basket also has rivet holes. The filter basket has twist-lock tabs on it to allow an afterfilter (standard or Filter-Fresh) to be locked into place. Those tabs are what break if you let your Filter-Fresh hit something with any force.

There is no pin involved in this part of the TriStar, metal or otherwise, so I'm just curious to know if you're referring to the same part I was talking about.