thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
If i lived closer and had a car id be at the meets for sure ....Being in Canada no wheel at the momment makes it a lil difficult one day .
The mighty Compact cleaning system
- Thread starter dysonman1
- Start date
Help Support VacuumLand:
dysonman1
Well-known member
Everyone has seen the Prototype for what became the Schoettler Patriot and Air Storm models.
dysonman1
Well-known member
This is what it looks like “in person”. I feel very blessed to have one. There couldn’t have been very many made
dysonman1
Well-known member
In Japan, the TriStar is called the Sunstorm. Again, the prototype was made in extremely limited quantities.
thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing i seen an add for Pinock vacuum a rebadge c6 compact for australia on yotube
thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
My cxl and c8 with pn
kirbylux77
Well-known member
TriStar vs competitors
I own a TriStar CXL, Miracle Mate Platinum and a Patriot, the same model Tom has. The TriStar CXL is superior to ALL it's competitors, including Vortech Force.
While these different brands were introduced to address what they saw as design flaws the TriStar had, they also have their own design flaws that make them inferior.
The Patriot seems like a good machine....on the surface. However, the flaws show up once you open up the body. The body is made of Noryl, a type of plastic, with metal grommets to secure the bolts and hold both upper and lower body together. It's construction is inferior....very easy to crack the plastic holes where the metal grommets are when reassembling the vacuum. Also, the vacuum uses a Ametek 116884-49 double stage motor that pulls 95" waterlift, only slightly more than the TriStar's Ametek 116311 double stage motor. But the motor has less copper in the field windings, about the same as a double stage Filter Queen motor, so it won't last as long as the TriStar motor. In addition, you MUST put a motor in with the same or MORE power, not less - the plastic body is so inferior, if you tried putting in a slightly less powerful motor in, the Patriot loses LOTS of power because the plastic body is unable to form a proper seal to the motor and loses it's power. When replacing the motor, you cannot use a motor with a long field coil like the Ametek 115923 as the switch is at the back and gets in the way. Later models also have a single stage Ametek Advantek motor that you can't even change the carbon brushes on. The Stormy Bag that Patriot uses is a mess to change because of the angle the dirt collects at in the bag - the forward angle does make the dirt collect more at the front of the bag, but it also makes it so the dirt is ready to spill out when you open the bag door. The only way to avoid this would be to remember to tilt the vacuum back before opening the bag door or to use the closed top bags that Schoettler offers for it. While it does offer a much improved Medik Aire HEPA filter and a swivelling cord hook, it's not worth the $3G asking price the DTD salesmen want for it.
Miracle Mate is interesting that they offer more features and a closed top bag, and also a superior motor since it uses the Ametek 115923 double stage motor that Miele used to use. But it's a bit heavier because of the type of metal they used, and the cord rewinder is a known issue on these - the cord breaks easily where it enters the winder and splits. Also, the Technostat filtration system is very poor quality....thin filters plus it leaks out right at the cord winder! STUPID that they would design a vacuum selling for big money DTD and put such a lousy filter system on it! Even more damning is the fact that the cord rewinder is separated from the motor compartment by a metal plate, so it shouldn't leak dirty air out the cord rewinder at all. And while the bags are closed top bags, they use poor quality filter paper....bad enough I would suggest using one of the HEPA Dome pre motor filters in place of the normal foam pre motor filter.
Vortech Force takes it a bit further than Miracle Mate did. The body is plastic with a double stage motor on the earlier green models, and like Miracle Mate has a cord rewinder. The first green models used a open bag with plain brown paper, then switched to a closed top HEPA Cloth bag on later models. One thing they did right that others should have caught on with is putting the Microfilter on the motor as a pre motor filter. Totally eliminates needing a sealed system, and also ensures the motor fans stay clean. Only thing they forgot to do was provide post motor filtration for the motor's carbon dust emissions! Particularly damning since the later models have a plastic cage with sponge material in it that a cloth microfilter media or pleated HEPA filter paper could have been used. On the later models though they did introduce a direct connect hose, wand and powerhead, a nice feature to see on a vacuum selling DTD for big bucks.
Of all these brands, TriStar and Vortech Force also had the best powerheads and accessories. Miracle Mate and Patriot came close in later years by offering the Sebo ET350, but still not quite as good as the Wessel and Tecnica powerheads that Vortech Force offered. Bottom line here, TriStar may have had their flaws, but of all these airflow type canisters, they got it right and executed it best. For my money, I would recommend a TriStar CXL or DXL to anyone looking for this type of canister right now.
Rob
I own a TriStar CXL, Miracle Mate Platinum and a Patriot, the same model Tom has. The TriStar CXL is superior to ALL it's competitors, including Vortech Force.
While these different brands were introduced to address what they saw as design flaws the TriStar had, they also have their own design flaws that make them inferior.
The Patriot seems like a good machine....on the surface. However, the flaws show up once you open up the body. The body is made of Noryl, a type of plastic, with metal grommets to secure the bolts and hold both upper and lower body together. It's construction is inferior....very easy to crack the plastic holes where the metal grommets are when reassembling the vacuum. Also, the vacuum uses a Ametek 116884-49 double stage motor that pulls 95" waterlift, only slightly more than the TriStar's Ametek 116311 double stage motor. But the motor has less copper in the field windings, about the same as a double stage Filter Queen motor, so it won't last as long as the TriStar motor. In addition, you MUST put a motor in with the same or MORE power, not less - the plastic body is so inferior, if you tried putting in a slightly less powerful motor in, the Patriot loses LOTS of power because the plastic body is unable to form a proper seal to the motor and loses it's power. When replacing the motor, you cannot use a motor with a long field coil like the Ametek 115923 as the switch is at the back and gets in the way. Later models also have a single stage Ametek Advantek motor that you can't even change the carbon brushes on. The Stormy Bag that Patriot uses is a mess to change because of the angle the dirt collects at in the bag - the forward angle does make the dirt collect more at the front of the bag, but it also makes it so the dirt is ready to spill out when you open the bag door. The only way to avoid this would be to remember to tilt the vacuum back before opening the bag door or to use the closed top bags that Schoettler offers for it. While it does offer a much improved Medik Aire HEPA filter and a swivelling cord hook, it's not worth the $3G asking price the DTD salesmen want for it.
Miracle Mate is interesting that they offer more features and a closed top bag, and also a superior motor since it uses the Ametek 115923 double stage motor that Miele used to use. But it's a bit heavier because of the type of metal they used, and the cord rewinder is a known issue on these - the cord breaks easily where it enters the winder and splits. Also, the Technostat filtration system is very poor quality....thin filters plus it leaks out right at the cord winder! STUPID that they would design a vacuum selling for big money DTD and put such a lousy filter system on it! Even more damning is the fact that the cord rewinder is separated from the motor compartment by a metal plate, so it shouldn't leak dirty air out the cord rewinder at all. And while the bags are closed top bags, they use poor quality filter paper....bad enough I would suggest using one of the HEPA Dome pre motor filters in place of the normal foam pre motor filter.
Vortech Force takes it a bit further than Miracle Mate did. The body is plastic with a double stage motor on the earlier green models, and like Miracle Mate has a cord rewinder. The first green models used a open bag with plain brown paper, then switched to a closed top HEPA Cloth bag on later models. One thing they did right that others should have caught on with is putting the Microfilter on the motor as a pre motor filter. Totally eliminates needing a sealed system, and also ensures the motor fans stay clean. Only thing they forgot to do was provide post motor filtration for the motor's carbon dust emissions! Particularly damning since the later models have a plastic cage with sponge material in it that a cloth microfilter media or pleated HEPA filter paper could have been used. On the later models though they did introduce a direct connect hose, wand and powerhead, a nice feature to see on a vacuum selling DTD for big bucks.
Of all these brands, TriStar and Vortech Force also had the best powerheads and accessories. Miracle Mate and Patriot came close in later years by offering the Sebo ET350, but still not quite as good as the Wessel and Tecnica powerheads that Vortech Force offered. Bottom line here, TriStar may have had their flaws, but of all these airflow type canisters, they got it right and executed it best. For my money, I would recommend a TriStar CXL or DXL to anyone looking for this type of canister right now.
Rob
thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
Agreed
I would have to agree with you on this one . I have used Filter Queens , Electrolux, Kenmore ect but nothing and i mean nothing compares to a Compact Electra or Tristar CXL/ DXL/ EX20 . The moror bag fitler are pretty well sealed no matter what type of job your doing i t cantackle it and more . Just wish it hada tool storage on it i don't particulaly like having the tools on the wands . The power and ease of use of a Early Compact & Tristar is a winner in my books i havea C8 and a CXL can't beat em both are my daily drivers .
I would have to agree with you on this one . I have used Filter Queens , Electrolux, Kenmore ect but nothing and i mean nothing compares to a Compact Electra or Tristar CXL/ DXL/ EX20 . The moror bag fitler are pretty well sealed no matter what type of job your doing i t cantackle it and more . Just wish it hada tool storage on it i don't particulaly like having the tools on the wands . The power and ease of use of a Early Compact & Tristar is a winner in my books i havea C8 and a CXL can't beat em both are my daily drivers .
dysonman1
Well-known member
Rob
I completely agree with everything you posted. You are absolutely right. Thank you for taking the time to review all of them.
Like you, I find the TriStar to be my favorite on a number of levels. Mostly maneuverability. I also find my TriStar to be somewhat quieter than the Patriot and M.M.
I completely agree with everything you posted. You are absolutely right. Thank you for taking the time to review all of them.
Like you, I find the TriStar to be my favorite on a number of levels. Mostly maneuverability. I also find my TriStar to be somewhat quieter than the Patriot and M.M.
Tom....
As you know, I have had several Tri-Stars of various iterations over the years. I do think the CS, in spite of it's heavier weight than earlier models, is the best they made. Interesting in that it is the last model too. (I think some tweaks were made to the blade tips to increase air flow).
I have modified my power nozzle in a way, (still using Lux/Aerus parts), that it out performs Lux/Aerus/Tri-Star original equipment for this model. Since I want to bring it to your free September convention which is focusing on power nozzle cannisters, I will not reveal what is different about it until we see it win!
Rob,
Your analysis is spot on! Many thanks for spelling it out in great easy to read and understand terminology.
As you know, I have had several Tri-Stars of various iterations over the years. I do think the CS, in spite of it's heavier weight than earlier models, is the best they made. Interesting in that it is the last model too. (I think some tweaks were made to the blade tips to increase air flow).
I have modified my power nozzle in a way, (still using Lux/Aerus parts), that it out performs Lux/Aerus/Tri-Star original equipment for this model. Since I want to bring it to your free September convention which is focusing on power nozzle cannisters, I will not reveal what is different about it until we see it win!
Rob,
Your analysis is spot on! Many thanks for spelling it out in great easy to read and understand terminology.
dysonman1
Well-known member
Charlie
Who will win, indeed? Last years cleaning competition was won by the Perfect combination of airflow and suction, along with a very well designed nozzle. The rug we use for the competition is perfect as well. Because it has the ability to be beaten. It can be lifted off the floor, beaten upon a cushion of air, and suction cleaned all at the same time. I expect to see the “test dirt“ jump at least 6 inches up as the power nozzle approaches.
Rob Shore used a Rainbow with the straight suction jet air rug nozzle last year. Remember, the damn thing was shaking so hard from all the foam. Good times.
Owen Perkins thinks he can hook a 30 foot electric hose up to a central vacuum that he sits on the floor, and it should be considered a power nozzle canister. So really, anything is possible.
In the “old days” it was all about the vacuums. And all the fun, like when Jimmy Martin’s Hoover, with a hole in the bottom of the bag, was entered in the competition. We were choking on dust. Good times.
Remember when CBS Sunday morning news filmed us for three days? No one had ever seen a Dyson vacuum before. I brought two of them. They weren’t even here in America yet. I’ve learned from my many decades of throwing conventions they should be about the Vacuums and not about the garden party. The hostess should just shut up, and stay in the kitchen. And stop talking to herself. Again, and again, and again.
Who will win, indeed? Last years cleaning competition was won by the Perfect combination of airflow and suction, along with a very well designed nozzle. The rug we use for the competition is perfect as well. Because it has the ability to be beaten. It can be lifted off the floor, beaten upon a cushion of air, and suction cleaned all at the same time. I expect to see the “test dirt“ jump at least 6 inches up as the power nozzle approaches.
Rob Shore used a Rainbow with the straight suction jet air rug nozzle last year. Remember, the damn thing was shaking so hard from all the foam. Good times.
Owen Perkins thinks he can hook a 30 foot electric hose up to a central vacuum that he sits on the floor, and it should be considered a power nozzle canister. So really, anything is possible.
In the “old days” it was all about the vacuums. And all the fun, like when Jimmy Martin’s Hoover, with a hole in the bottom of the bag, was entered in the competition. We were choking on dust. Good times.
Remember when CBS Sunday morning news filmed us for three days? No one had ever seen a Dyson vacuum before. I brought two of them. They weren’t even here in America yet. I’ve learned from my many decades of throwing conventions they should be about the Vacuums and not about the garden party. The hostess should just shut up, and stay in the kitchen. And stop talking to herself. Again, and again, and again.
dysonman1
Well-known member
My 50th anniversary TriStar. I just got it today as an early birthday present from a good friend. I love that the filter is still intact. It quiets it down so much.
thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
I also have a Tristar CXL 50 got free repalcemy power head runs good niiiice lucky oyu enjoy it .
kirbylux77
Well-known member
Tom - Thanks, I appreciate that. And yes, I agree with you on the TriStar's maneuverability, it is sooo easy to pull around and turns on a dime. In fact, I will go as far to say that the TriStar and Lewyt Big Wheel were the most maneuverable canisters ever made. Screw Miele! Sure they are maneuverable, but try those damn casters on a thick rug and forget it, you'll curse the day you bought the damn thing! Now, that 50th Anniversary CXL....that is a beauty!! . One of the very first used canisters I started my collection with was that exact model. Bought it for $60 from the local vac shop with the hose which had a generic metal replacement handle. Later had TriStar replace the body because the paint was getting very drab....what a mistake that was! They sent mismatched upper and lower body for a DXL. If I could ever find one that didn't have tons of paint chips in the black paint or permanently dirty looking upper body, I would buy it. Sooo classy looking, especially with the 50th Anniversary logo.
Charlie - Thank you for the kind words. I don't know about the last TriStar CS being the best....I feel they were at their best with the CXL/DXL machines like most collectors do. However, I would give a close 2nd place to the EXL. From what I understand, all those models had pretty much the same suction and airflow, and with the motor being so much better quality than the VM3 and Johnson Electric motors, I would have to give the EXL the nod for 2nd place. Also, sure they did modernize the TriStar, but they could have done a better job at it. The weight and filtration system being my biggest criticisms. There should have been a pleated HEPA filter incorporated into the design and HEPA Cloth bags. Also, it would have been nice if it had a better suction relief valve on the hose, and if they put a little more effort into the redesign of the Electrolux powerhead for the TriStar. A headlight should have been nade standard equipment, and they should have put a more aggressive brushroll in and kept the suction relief valve the CXL powerhead had for people with thick carpets.
Antoine - Agreed, a TriStar is definitely a top choice. Personally though I would take a Electrolux 2100 or Epic 6500 over the TriStar CXL though if I had to choose. For me, Electrolux solved the issues you have with the TriStar, plus better quality bags which work out to the same cost per bag and better cyclonic action. Also, I do like the Electrolux hose handle that the 2100 and earlier canisters used, so easy to hold and vacuum with, great suction relief valve, and the direct connect wand system is a really nice touch. I also think Electrolux incorporated the geared belt better on their powerheads than the later geared belt version of the CXL powerhead, and the fact you could get a Electrolux powerhead with a headlight and the optional Sidekick seal the deal.
Rob
. One of the very first used canisters I started my collection with was that exact model. Bought it for $60 from the local vac shop with the hose which had a generic metal replacement handle. Later had TriStar replace the body because the paint was getting very drab....what a mistake that was! They sent mismatched upper and lower body for a DXL. If I could ever find one that didn't have tons of paint chips in the black paint or permanently dirty looking upper body, I would buy it. Sooo classy looking, especially with the 50th Anniversary logo. Charlie - Thank you for the kind words
. I don't know about the last TriStar CS being the best....I feel they were at their best with the CXL/DXL machines like most collectors do. However, I would give a close 2nd place to the EXL. From what I understand, all those models had pretty much the same suction and airflow, and with the motor being so much better quality than the VM3 and Johnson Electric motors, I would have to give the EXL the nod for 2nd place. Also, sure they did modernize the TriStar, but they could have done a better job at it. The weight and filtration system being my biggest criticisms. There should have been a pleated HEPA filter incorporated into the design and HEPA Cloth bags. Also, it would have been nice if it had a better suction relief valve on the hose, and if they put a little more effort into the redesign of the Electrolux powerhead for the TriStar. A headlight should have been nade standard equipment, and they should have put a more aggressive brushroll in and kept the suction relief valve the CXL powerhead had for people with thick carpets. Antoine - Agreed, a TriStar is definitely a top choice. Personally though I would take a Electrolux 2100 or Epic 6500 over the TriStar CXL though if I had to choose. For me, Electrolux solved the issues you have with the TriStar, plus better quality bags which work out to the same cost per bag and better cyclonic action. Also, I do like the Electrolux hose handle that the 2100 and earlier canisters used, so easy to hold and vacuum with, great suction relief valve, and the direct connect wand system is a really nice touch. I also think Electrolux incorporated the geared belt better on their powerheads than the later geared belt version of the CXL powerhead, and the fact you could get a Electrolux powerhead with a headlight and the optional Sidekick seal the deal.
Rob
kirbylux77
Well-known member
Tom - Thanks, I appreciate that. And yes, I agree with you on the TriStar's maneuverability, it is sooo easy to pull around and turns on a dime. In fact, I will go as far to say that the TriStar and Lewyt Big Wheel were the most maneuverable canisters ever made. Screw Miele! Sure they are maneuverable, but try those damn casters on a thick rug and forget it, you'll curse the day you bought the damn thing! Now, that 50th Anniversary CXL....that is a beauty!! . One of the very first used canisters I started my collection with was that exact model. Bought it for $60 from the local vac shop with the hose which had a generic metal replacement handle. Later had TriStar replace the body because the paint was getting very drab....what a mistake that was! They sent mismatched upper and lower body for a DXL. If I could ever find one that didn't have tons of paint chips in the black paint or permanently dirty looking upper body, I would buy it. Sooo classy looking, especially with the 50th Anniversary logo.
Charlie - Thank you for the kind words. I don't know about the last TriStar CS being the best....I feel they were at their best with the CXL/DXL machines like most collectors do. However, I would give a close 2nd place to the EXL. From what I understand, all those models had pretty much the same suction and airflow, and with the motor being so much better quality than the VM3 and Johnson Electric motors, I would have to give the EXL the nod for 2nd place. Also, sure they did modernize the TriStar, but they could have done a better job at it. The weight and filtration system being my biggest criticisms. There should have been a pleated HEPA filter incorporated into the design and HEPA Cloth bags. Also, it would have been nice if it had a better suction relief valve on the hose, and if they put a little more effort into the redesign of the Electrolux powerhead for the TriStar. A headlight should have been nade standard equipment, and they should have put a more aggressive brushroll in and kept the suction relief valve the CXL powerhead had for people with thick carpets.
Antoine - Agreed, a TriStar is definitely a top choice. Personally though I would take a Electrolux 2100 or Epic 6500 over the TriStar CXL though if I had to choose. For me, Electrolux solved the issues you have with the TriStar, plus better quality bags which work out to the same cost per bag and better cyclonic action. Also, I do like the Electrolux hose handle that the 2100 and earlier canisters used, so easy to hold and vacuum with, great suction relief valve, and the direct connect wand system is a really nice touch. I also think Electrolux incorporated the geared belt better on their powerheads than the later geared belt version of the CXL powerhead, and the fact you could get a Electrolux powerhead with a headlight and the optional Sidekick seal the deal.
Rob
. One of the very first used canisters I started my collection with was that exact model. Bought it for $60 from the local vac shop with the hose which had a generic metal replacement handle. Later had TriStar replace the body because the paint was getting very drab....what a mistake that was! They sent mismatched upper and lower body for a DXL. If I could ever find one that didn't have tons of paint chips in the black paint or permanently dirty looking upper body, I would buy it. Sooo classy looking, especially with the 50th Anniversary logo. Charlie - Thank you for the kind words
. I don't know about the last TriStar CS being the best....I feel they were at their best with the CXL/DXL machines like most collectors do. However, I would give a close 2nd place to the EXL. From what I understand, all those models had pretty much the same suction and airflow, and with the motor being so much better quality than the VM3 and Johnson Electric motors, I would have to give the EXL the nod for 2nd place. Also, sure they did modernize the TriStar, but they could have done a better job at it. The weight and filtration system being my biggest criticisms. There should have been a pleated HEPA filter incorporated into the design and HEPA Cloth bags. Also, it would have been nice if it had a better suction relief valve on the hose, and if they put a little more effort into the redesign of the Electrolux powerhead for the TriStar. A headlight should have been nade standard equipment, and they should have put a more aggressive brushroll in and kept the suction relief valve the CXL powerhead had for people with thick carpets. Antoine - Agreed, a TriStar is definitely a top choice. Personally though I would take a Electrolux 2100 or Epic 6500 over the TriStar CXL though if I had to choose. For me, Electrolux solved the issues you have with the TriStar, plus better quality bags which work out to the same cost per bag and better cyclonic action. Also, I do like the Electrolux hose handle that the 2100 and earlier canisters used, so easy to hold and vacuum with, great suction relief valve, and the direct connect wand system is a really nice touch. I also think Electrolux incorporated the geared belt better on their powerheads than the later geared belt version of the CXL powerhead, and the fact you could get a Electrolux powerhead with a headlight and the optional Sidekick seal the deal.
Rob
thevacomaticiec
Well-known member
Yes i agree some feature of Electrolux i like as you mention ad i like Tristar those are my 2 go to machines that i love to use .
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Anyone else think the pre "ball" Dysons had better Bin/Cyclone designs?
- Latest: rlsellman21