Tested: Bagged vacuums lost suction when bag fills

[Mike81]

I just made a video where I compare suction when the vacuum has a full bag vs empty bag. Note that this only apply to fleece bags.
Reason why I did this test is because I have watched so many bagless vacuum commercials claiming no loss of suction and why bagged vacuums are so impractical and bags are expensive. This is something what I often read from the youtube also.
So this video should show quite clearly how "bad" bags really are. Note that this full bag has also a lot of very fine flour.
I am interested to hear what people here think of this.

 

[sebo_fan]

The thing is, collectors, reviewers, salespeople and owners can continually keep posting videos showing bagged vacs can still go the extra mile with suction but the damage has been done already on the mere promise that bagless eliminates buying dust bags.

I think it was Dyson that uttered that statement in the early days; pity back then the uprights that were being made had drive belts that also had to be purchased, and not all of them were cheap to buy as per the model in question.

Even now there are only a few bagless uprights that might have motorised lifetime belts. How easy the owner forgets that if they own a vacuum that requires drive belt replacement as well as the "joy" of actually putting the new one on.

Other false claims that exist of course are HEPA filters in bagless vacs. All very well until that piece of dog hair or cat hair gets stuck around the shroud and requires to be pulled out manually. HEPA filter ain't going to save you then from the allergens, the moment the stuff becomes airborne.

 

[Mike81]

I totally agree with you, the damage has been done unfortunately.
When you think how much those fleece bags can hold dirt is amazing. People don't realize that the bagged vacuums compresses the dirt and therefore one bag can easily hold (roughly) 10-15 bagless canister full of dirt in them. Also cost of the bags is concern for many consumer. I don't think that bags are too expensive at all. For exhample 5 bags what I use cost under 10€ and that's not bad. Not to even speaking how dirty it is to maintain bagless vacuum.
I personally hate those uprights/powerheads with stretch flat belt compared to the geared lifetime ones. This Lux seen in the video has powerhead with stretch belt and it needed replacing even when the head had a very little use in it's past life. My Miele SEB-217 ph and Kärcher upright both has a geared belt and it keeps the constant rpm for the brushroll. Kärcher is from 1999 and the belt is original!

 

[myles_v]

I've never had any issues with bagged machines losing suction until they become completely filled, and even then the only vacuums I've filled far enough to lose suction are canisters where the bag is designed so the whole thing is able to fill evenly.
However, bagless machines in my experience lose suction very fast. I believe that the Shark models are better in this sense because on every model I've used the filters are directly under the dust bin in a way that each time one removes the bin they see the filter, thus any owner can see the dust buildup and decide when to clean the filters.
Bissells, Hoover Airs, and Eureka machines most seem to almost hide the filters. They stick them under flaps and little doors on the bins where many people wouldn't even realize there is a filter unless they read the manual.
I'll always remember my grandmother telling me about how she is always cleaning the filters on her Bissell (which she purchased to replace a Kirby G4 that she dreaded using), thinking I would be proud of her. So I reached down and pulled open another little door on the front to expose yet another filter, one that she did not even know existed.

 

[Mike81]

Yes. I have to say that if I had not done test with the turbo brush side by side I really would not notice any loss of suction.
Bagless vacuums do lose suction quicker if the filters are not regularly cleaned.
Well Dyson has now Cinetic vacuums (no pre motor filter), but I would never use them for vacuuming very fine dust like flour. It would go trough to the motor and finally clogging the post motor hepa filters. Cyclone technology in Dysons is best of bagless vacuums, but they still need messy emptying and bin cleaning.
I obviously like more bagged vacuums, but I also like some bagless vacuums. I just think that bagged is much more effortless because mainentance needed is minimal.

 

[wyaple]

I posted some HEPA bag tests back in February

I wanted to answer these two questions:

1) How much performance do you lose by re-using a cloth HEPA bag and
2) How much performance do you lose by completely filling a cloth HEPA bag.

Mike81,

What you see (really hear) is airflow loss, not so much suction loss. If the brush roll is spinning slower, it's mostly because the air "speed" is going down as the bag fills up.

When Dyson claims no loss of suction, that does not mean no loss of airflow, which really picks up the dirt. Think about it: if you clog/cover a Dyson's hose, suction (sometimes referred to as water lift) is mostly maintained, but airflow is completely cut off, hence no dirt pickup. In fact, how you measure suction is by completely sealing the hose.

If anyone is interested in actual measurements of a wide variety of vacs, just search my name and many posts with water lift and airflow measurements will come up.

For about $100, you can purchase a Marshalltown water lift (suction) gauge and a Baird airflow meter.

Bill


http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?31267

 

[Mike81]

Yes airflow is the most important thing for cleaning performance.
For some unknown reason this old (mid 90's) Lux has far more suction/airflow than any of my other vacuums. I presume it's due to the very simply/straight airpath. It even has much more suction/airflow than my brand new Electrolux UltraFlex which is one of the most powerfull vacuums of the new EU low wattage vacuums.
I would love to have airflow or suction meter.

 

[panasonicvac]

Some Kenmores and Panasonics used what's called "Optiflow" on their bagged machines that's designed not to loose as much suction and airflow when the bag fills up. I've seen some of those models that had a full bag but it surprisingly still pulls up alot of suction and airflow, even it doesn't make much of a difference when you replace the bag on those.

The only bagless vacuums that I have seen or used that doesn't loose suction when it's fills up would be a Filter Queen, a Rainbow, and a Vacuflo true cyclonic model. Not only that but I find them much cleaner to empty than any other bagless vacuums that I have seen.

 

[marks_here]

Speaking of Vacflo true cyclonic

I just emptied mine in the woods as usual & I still have yet to experience this massive plume of dust everyone keeps complaining about when they dump them. I guess being true cyclonic is why there's no dust when I empty it.

Mark D.

 

[mark40511]

I can attest to the amount of

bagless vacuum full bins a bagged vacuum can hold (in my case, electrolux epic 6500) and the bags are super cheap and work great.

See, I keep the Lux in my laundry room for suction only to clean up lint, etc from doing laundry and keeping the laundry room clean, but day to day I use my Shark bagless or my Rainbow. When the shark gets full, I take it to my laundry room and use my bagged lux to suck the bin, and the shark filters clean. I can do this SO many times before I need to change the bag - so many times that I lose count. It keeps dust from flying all over the place. It does lose suction somewhat, but with a bag getting 75% full, it still sucks the dirt out of the bagless bin with ease

 

[mchmike]

The newest vacuum I own was made in 1982 . I would never use any plastic machines I currently see at the stores. Who in their right mind would want to empty a bin. Yuck!!! As long as hepa c bags for Electroluxes are available that's what I'll use and at 35 cents a bag it'll hardly bankrupt me.

 

[rvarley]

downside of the bag

Here's one disadvantage that doesn't often get mentioned about bagged vacuums - the stench they produce as the bag gets full. And I own no bagless with the possible exception of a vintage lux and a Kirby with cloth shakeout bags. I have tried many solutions to the problem of 'bag stench' including charcoal, 'scent beads', essential oils, freezing the bag, putting the bag in the oven (bad idea) and nothing causes any of them not to smell. I am not a shill for bagless vacuums and don't own dyson, shark, etc. The stinky bags are, to me, far more disgusting than a little dust flying around when a bin is emptied (as in the old kirby) and it is gratifying to see how much dirt the vacuum has sucked up. The Kirby with the shake out bag smells less than my other bagged vacs and Rainbow is best of all (from the stench perspective). All that said, my most frequently used vacuum is the one that's easy to use - a Tacony Supralight. Yes, it smells, but it's so easy. With that in mind, I'm thinking of trying the over priced Dyson V8 for everyday use. Perhaps it will have the best of both things I appreciate - no stench and ease of use. Does anyone with a lot of modern bagless experience believe that the bagless vacs are just as stinky as the bagged? If so, I might re-think my purchase of the over-priced Dyson. I have always thought they look AND feel cheap. Ugly, IMHO. Just picking it up in the store they feel cheap. But not having tried one, this is a bit of contempt prior to investigation. I remember thinking the Supralight looked like a cheap piece of junk and fell in love with it the moment I tried it.

 

[sebo_fan]

If the bag smells spare a thought for the rest of the vacuum. Sounds to me like the dust channel needs a good clean out before the dirt hits the bag.

 

[sebo_fan]

Also, some shake out cloth bags in my experience aren't as thin as disposable fleece/synthetic dust bags so its a no brainer if the shake out bag starts to smell after several months.

 

[wyaple]

Here's a slight variation of the dreaded vac stink probl

Rvarley,

My house (3 humans and 1 dog) is clean enough that it would take at least a year (if not longer) to fill a Kirby bag. Soooooo, after about 30-60 days of very little dust/dirt buildup in the HEPA bag, the outer bag just begins to smell as well as the inner bag.

My solution, and it isn't for everybody to be sure, is to put in about 1 ounce of fish-tank rated charcoal pellets in the HEPA bag. I then take a scented dryer sheet and place it between the inner and out bag. For plastic vacs, I place the dryer sheet between the HEPA bag and outside cover. For my Kirbys, I wash the outer bag every 6 months. Then monthly, I take the cloth HEPA inner bag and reverse blow it out (outside of course) and re-use it. I have done the blowout and reuse up to 8 times over the last year (per machine) with great success! Very little airflow loss and of course no smell.

I have at least 7 machines that have cloth HEPA bags and since I could never fill them over any reasonable period of time, I clean them out and reuse them. Although I wouldn't mind tossing a $2 bag every month that's one-tenth full, I would have a difficult time tossing seven $2 bags every month.

You say, "ah-ha!", that's obviously a huge downside of any machine that isn't bagless. Welp, unless you're using something like a Rainbow, all my bagless machines require just as much work, if fact even more so. Cleanup on a Rainbow doesn't usually involve flying dust, but does involve drying time though.

My routine to keep my bagless Hoover and Dyson performing at tip-top levels is to blow out the dust bins and cyclones every use. That's in addition to washing and drying the sponge filters and letting them dry over night. My wife couldn't believe how much the remaining dirt "poofs" out of the cyclones when I get the leaf blower out to clean them.

I don't tolerate any vac stink at all and the above procedures eliminate that issue from all my vacs regardless of type. But note that ALL vacs require some periodic cleaning in order to keep them performing at or near 100%.

Bill

 

[sebo_fan]

Very true Bill, but also few owners realise that the hose and dust channels also require regularly wiping out to get rid of clogged oils and general muck stuck . Especially from dog hair!

 

[mark40511]

Cleaning hoses

I recently had the Shampoo my berber and I used my aquamate 3, and after done, you have to suck water through the hose to clean it, then hook it to the blower port and dry it, so the hoses get cleaned during the process

I've never tried to clean a bagged vacuum hose, but I've never had a vacuum ever clog. The bag stink to me is just this "stale" smell. A few months ago, I started using these Scent Tablets made by Oreck I bought from Amazon. The scent is super strong for a few weeks. I can't explain the smell. To me, they only postpone the stale smell for a few weeks, then it starts happening. It takes so long for me to fill my electrolux bag, I always end up changing it way before it needs it. I could imagine how much worse this would be if there were dog hair. I only have to deal with cat hair

Anyway - the smell we are smelling is bacteria growing in the bag - I don't have anti-bacterial bags, but wouldn't this fix that problem?

 

[rvarley]

Thanks for the suggestion about cleaning the 'dust channel'. Not sure how I will do that on some of the vacs, but I'll give it a try. As mentioned, I've tried just about everything else, including the fishtank grade charcoal, both powderized and as-is from the can. It might work for a short while, but the bag isn't nearly full before it starts to smell again. Hate the thought of discarding a 1/3 to 1/2 used bag.

I never let the kirby shakeout bag get full. The 'watcha-ma-callit' thing is dumped after every cleaning and the bag is give a good shake.

I do have two dogs, so I'm sure that's why I have the problem, but getting rid of them is not an option.

Rainbow is best from the stench perspective, but it's too much work for quick cleanups.

 

[suckolux]

Emptor

 

[sebo_fan]

I am assuming that you machine wash the shake out dust bag regularly? Either way, a pipe cleaner with a piece of cloth on one end pushed through can be achieved as well as near wet wipes. I have used wet wipes before and find them to be great, provided I then push a dry lint cloth through the dry off the channel at the same time.

I realise there is a limitation in terms of a dirty fan vac design of an upright but if the Kirby's main dirt channel leading to the bag that can dismantled completely, i.e the filler tube as on the Kirby Tradition, then that's a start. If the filler tube is completely removable, its easier just to lay it into a bath of hot water and some washing detergent. This loosens all the muck and dog hair oil. Tubes can normally be hung up to dry right through, particularly if it is coiled where water will stay collected.

 

[human]

That's all just too much trouble

Reduced suction is just the vacuum cleaner's way of telling you it's time to replace the bag, which takes all of 30 seconds and then you're back to being productive without getting all covered with filth. In what universe is all that shaking and washing more convenient than just changing the disposable bag?

 

[n0oxy]

bagged verses bagless

This debate will probably continue as long as vacuums exist, personally I don't like bagless models, they are very messy to empty and the filters do clog much faster. If a bagged vacuum uses cloth bags instead of paper, which most do, the only time the performance would drop noticeably is if the bag is very full, and it's always good to change your bag before it gets to that point. Usually around two thirds full is a good reference.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well actually no, there are other variables to take into account with disposable dust bags or bagless - if suction is reduced there's a clog in the system. The first rule of thumb is to check airways which, lets face it average Joe may not do. Collectors are different though - they know what to do in general if there's reduced suction in general.

Respectively there may be a reason for those who prefer shake out bags. I know I did when I had one in my Vax canister vacuum. I didn't mind shaking out the dirt because I stood away from the bin when I did it and promptly threw the bag into the washing machine. The reason for this is purely because Vax don't yet produce synthetic dust bags for their Vax tubs. Why I'm unsure but the paper bags have a tendency to burst open at times if full suction power is applied.

Not all bagless vacuums are messy when emptying dirt. Not all bagged vacuums are clean when taking out the bag either - especially if ones don't have a seal upon removal.

 

[vacerator]

Naturally, and so many gimmicks

like the central vacuum system cloth's you can buy which claim to "clean" the pipes as they are sucked through the system.

 

[Mike81]

My sense of smell isn't the greatest (smoker) and I haven't noticed any "bad" smells. However I have noticed when I vacuumed a lot washing powder (for testing purposes) with my Lux Royal, smell came through it and there was a strong smell of it. Not bad smell by any means. Lux didn't have HEPA converter & HEPA filter installed. HEPA filter for it is optional and VERY expensive costing 61€. I really don't feel need to invest to it.

What it comes to much newer Electrolux vacuums with the HEPA13 filter they seems to keep the smell away very well. I have had UltraOne (bagged) and UltraPerformer (bagless) in the past. Now I have UltraFlex (bagless) and it has the same thing, no smells coming trought it.
All Ultra-series vacuums have A-class filtration, but that doesn't necessarily mean that bad smells can't get trought of those.
If that happens I would highly recomend to try Anti-Odor Pet s-bag EL203 bags. Those might help things.

http://https//www.amazon.com/Genuine-Electrolux-Anti-Odor-s-bag-EL203/dp/B00026730C

 

[vacerator]

I've tried

the E-Lux anti odor S bags. They do work the first couple of times. Then as the bacteria from pet hair grows inside the bag, they emit odor. What I did was spray Lysol disinfectant on the hepa filter before vacuuming.

 

[vacuumlad1650]

I'm bagged all the way
Andy

 

[marks_here]

It doesn't matter to me

Like I've said before i'm bag-saxual

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I've bought cleaners from Ebay.

Sometimes, you can smell a dog, etc.  I take care of that right away.


 Years ago, my late mother would spread moth crystals,  not balls, on the floor, and later, would vacuum them up.  I'm sure it was bad for us, but, I got used to that smell.  I also have 4 cedar closets in the house, so  THAT scent is very familiar as well.