Super J motor cleaning or maybe more...

[real1shep]

I  watched the video and it made my eyes burn. No thanks, unless as I've stated many time before, it was something rare. Then it's just my time. It's not daunting, just time-consuming.  In chainsaws we have an electronic module manufacturer called SEM's. They had units right underneath the flywheel that got too hot and the pulse capacitors fried. A EE solved the problem by removing the potting, wiring right to the PCB and installing a remote pulse capacitor outside the flywheel. The whole process is very tedious, but there are no choices other than to buy used modules and take your chance.


 


Point being that electronically, anything is possible given enough time. I think the rewinding vid I watched was sponsored by a tech college. Great project for students. Part of me wants to try it, but meh....don't want to give up the time.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

I am not interested in rewiring this motor anyhow.

 

[real1shep]

Giant waste of time when there are still parts out there. As I said before, it's usually the armature that goes bad on Elux motors. Yours tested out OK. A good working Super J should pull 80". In their sales lit it could pull up six steel balls they said. Four balls was the usual test the salesperson did in your house as a demo. My G pulled 3 and almost a fourth one when the Elux salesperson was selling me our first Diamond J.  She had a hard time overcoming that and I didn't let her forget it either....lol. 


 


Kevin

 

[tolivac]

In TRYING to watch the video---CRAPPY production and music.Armatures are usually wound by machine at the motor factory-same with the stators.Best just to get a new motor if you can.If not try to find a donor machine with a good motor.

 

[real1shep]

I've seen machines that hobbiest use to rewind motors. Kinda funny to watch....


 


Like I said, armatures are usually the culprit in Elux made motors. Or....you just wait for a used motor to pop up, test, repair and use.


 


Kevin

 

[tolivac]

I don't know if they are still available--you could get a small winder used by radio hams and repairmen to wind radio type coil,transformer bobbins-but not motors.You could cran kthe machine by hand or turn it with a variable speed drill.worked well.

 

[real1shep]

No, I've seen some contraptions on Youtube for rewinding field coils and armatures......probably home brew, but interesting to watch.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

Update: Earlier today I ran the motor without its plastic cover to have a good sight at the brushes, and they are clearly making lots of sparks on one side, and almost none on the other side. I made a video of this with my smart phone, but I'm just not smart enough myself to load it on my computer, meh !

So, what's next? Should I replace both brushes while I'm in it ? Will it cure the arcing ?

 

[real1shep]

Commutator stone first. You do that with the motor running....adjusts/evens the shape of the commutator to the brushes. Brushes need to have plenty of length though for this process....usually do this when the brushes are new. Super J brushes are about $14 for a pair soooo.....? 


 


There are some Youtube vids on this, but look for the ones that are for smaller electric motors. Doesn't serve any purpose to watch using a stone on a big electric motor.


 


Someday I'm gonna get a camera set up on the work bench and document rebuilding/testing motors.


 


Kevin


 

 

[quebecois]

Thnaks Kevin, my brushes are still 1 inch long so there is plenty left. I had a look at some videos on YouTube and it seems this is an easy process, just gently pushing the stone against the commutators while the motor is running, isn't it?

Where would I buy a commutator stone here in Canada ? I don't even know what it's called in French...

 

[real1shep]

Yes, exactly perpendicular to the commutator. I found some on eBay and when I linked some members to them, the price had doubled. Soooooo..I don't know if I got a good deal for two, or the place is just screwing people now.


 


I have no idea in Canada where you can get the smaller stones, sorry. They look very much in appearance only like the soapstone markers you buy for welding.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

I'll try to source them locally first, beginning with my Elux center.

 

[quebecois]

Another question about the SuperJ: I didn't find any filter in the rear end, unlike the others Elux's that I own, is it normal ?

I noticed that both my SuperJ's were pretty dirty along the sides where the air goes out, and it was obviously carbon powder off of the brushes, so I wonder if it is a bad design (no filter at all) or just my cans that are missing a filter ? What model of filter could that be?

 

[madman]

I suppose it depends on how bad your commutator is, but I usually just wrap a bunch of masking tape around the armature shaft, chuck it into a power drill, run the drill, and clean the commutator with a scotch-brite pad.

Hang on. I have a hunch.

Before you do anything else, try this: take the sparky brush out of the holder. Turn it 180 degrees. Put it back in.

Retest.

http://https//www.ebay.ca/sch/i.htm...tor+stone.TRS1&_nkw=commutator+stone&_sacat=0

 

[real1shep]

I just assume that everyone marks their carbon brushes so they put them back in the same. It's easy to put the worn brush back in 180 degrees wrong. But that's what the stone is for; to even everything back up again with new brushes.


 


Mostly the dirt you see on motors is dust/dirt that got past a cheap, paper bag. For your motor's sake, use a HEPA Type C bag and then a secondary filter like Aerus has between the end of your bag and the motor.


 


Kevin


 


 

 

[quebecois]

Here is a picture of the sparks after a few minutes of running with the left brush (bottom on the picture) rotated 180 degrees as per Madman suggestion. Arcing is still a bit more obvious on the same side as before (bottom side on picture) , but a lot less than this afternoon.

 

[quebecois]

here is what's left of the black dust under the top cover, I removed 99% of it.

 

[quebecois]

Actually I thought about a filter past the motor like the rectangular one in the AP-100 and E2000 and so on.

 

[Deleted member 1090]

well then

Welll if you can fix your super j i can fix my model ZB 86 need a motor hose and handle for it im on the hunt il post pic as i go along and il read some tips thanks.

 

[quebecois]

That SuperJ is something impressive, it's very powerful !

After I put it all together yesterday evening I used it in my apartment and went to the point where I left a quite big screwdriver on the floor, and it sucked it up !!!

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Blue sparks are normal. Any Orange sparks shooting off is a bad arc.

 

[real1shep]

Blue sparks are normal...and even on both sides. What has happened is you put a worn brush in 180 degrees from how it had worn in originally. And since it ran that way for awhile, it was trying to re-break in the other way.....so that's why the spark is not perfectly even, although you have reversed it back to its original postion. You even have to return the brush to the same side it came out of.....if you want to reuse it.


 


In that era, few if any manufacturers where very conscious and alert to things like alergins and fibromyalgia. So.....nobody thought much about brush dust either. You can't really blame Elux or anyone else for that matter. Now there would be no excuse not to consider these things in the design.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

I had a few orange sparks on both sides, from time to time.

The black dust isn't good for health nor it is aesthetic when it sticks to every part of the vacuum body, they apparently didn't think about that either.

 

[madman]

"Arcing is still a bit more obvious on the same side as before (bottom side on picture) , but a lot less than this afternoon."

I helped! :3

I bet the brush was the wrong way around, that's all. It should wear back in after a bit of running.

 

[real1shep]

It takes a long time for vacs like the Elux to shed that much carbon brush dust. Of the dozen or so Diamond J 's I've restored for example, I don't ever remember seeing much in the way of carbon dust. 'course I have no way of knowing how much escaped into the air......as they learned with the Diamond J motor, arid/desert climates had a bad effect on the commutator and brushes. 


 


This could be a design thing with the Super J's.....big motor, big brushes, big mess.....I haven't put yrs of use on any Super J yet.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

"This could be a design thing with the Super J's.....big motor, big brushes, big mess"

I like that!

I did measured the current this SuperJ draws again, after a few minutes of use, and the reading was 8.1 amps. COnsidering the cord has two repairs that become a bit hot during use (current loss) , I suppose that the reading could be below 8 amps (not so off compared to specs) with a good cord , does it make sense ?

 

[real1shep]

Yes, that makes sense....a motor trying to draw through bad cord repairs will fractionally draw more amperage. Most high power vacs have cords that are one size too small anyway.....they do that for suppleness and cord winders. I tried putting a decent cord on a 1205 winder once and it never was satisfactory. I could have shortened it to work, but then I lost my length.


 


Kevin

 

[quebecois]

last update: I used this SuperJ yesterday and pulled the cord gently out but apparently too much, because I heard the same noise, the noise the spring makes when it slips off of the spool inside...

I'm a bit upset with this...I think I will source a good cord, install it in the spool without the spring and simply wind it around the can...

 

[real1shep]

The biggest trick to Elux cord winders is to leave about three spring wraps on the spool with the cord pulled ALL the way out. Your problem is common to a newbie and Elux cord winders.


 


Kevin

 

[madman]

You should probably address the cord issue. It's kind of... not good if a repaired part of a wire is getting hotter than the rest of the wire. It'll melt and let the pixies out eventually.

Bummer about the cord winder. Realshep's probably right, winding any kind of clockspring is a huge pain because you pretty much need to know exactly how many turns it needs at a certain point.