Stark/Royal Classic PowerTeam 4650, repair questions

[dartman]

Just joined becuase I picked up this guy to replace the Royal PowerTank 4.3 we've had since about 90 or so that I can't find a good hose for anymore.
Loved that thing so figured I'd keep a watch on Craigslist for one of the newer versions with the better powerhead or one like mine to use for parts or use parts from mine.
Paid 25 bucks for it becuase she said the vacuum and powerhead constantly stop working becuase she stored it with the hose kinked at the vac end in a tiny closet and it broke a wire.
Smells like dog but it does work if I set the 3 way switch to blower mode, has same suction and powerhead works fine. Variable speed doesn't really work and of course in the vacuum mode of the main switch it cuts out the tank unless you hold the hose just right.
It sure brings up the nap of the rug and seems to have a way better powerhead then my earlier version does, plus seems to have better suction too.
Didn't buy it becuase it's antique, bought it to use seeing how our original one has worked great and until recently parts were easy to find and reasonable cheap to either have the local Starks fix it or buy them myself and do it.
SO is there a way to disassemble the hose and cut it down to get past the 6 inches or so the internal cord is bad or am I better off to buy just a new hose or find a good used one?
I have found supposedly the hose by itself, and there is a blue 4600 version used on eBay right now as a complete hose setup for about 50 shipped, the hose only is new and about 40 shipped.
If I can just cut it down and redo the end I'd do that otherwise I'll get a new or used hose but anyways it seems to work as is now and she also gave me a bunch of new bags for it so it will go into service and I'll see what you guys here think about replacing or repairing the hose so everything works as intended again.

 

[fantomfan]

Try to go for a good hose.

Based on the manufacture label, It was made in 1998 (I think B means February) making it about seventeen years old. I have a blue Deluxe Power Team also made in 1998, two months after yours. They are GREAT cleaners, easily one of the best canisters from the 90's. I had to replace the wand AND hose on mine. It cost me over $100, but the parts look almost new. I couldn't be happier with it. Go for the hose, as long as the price is reasonable. The later Cen-Tec powerhead is MUCH better than the Filter Queen powerhead they used before. You should be able to find a good hose for your old one as well. It just may take some time. Best of luck- Mitchell

 

[dartman]

Thanks, I have the eBay link saved and the link to the new hose so I'll have to get one of those soon. I keep watching Craigs list and we have replaced that hose 3 times, and the powerhead once on my older one. I bought a good complete powerhead several years ago on eBay for around 60 bucks shipped when the motor and the housing were done for so I've kept it going since we got it it worked so nicely.
I actually bought it from a Kirby salesman when he realzed the crappy plastic Kenmore Canister I had at the time was on it's last legs and not worth trying to repair. He also knew I wasn't going or able to buy the Kirby so he told me about the two year old Royal he'd just taken in trade and I paid him 200 for it, it did look brand new back then.

 

[sbakerde]

Hoses are available

But only as a replacement hose blank. You would have to reuse the old ends and pigtail cord. The replacement for this model is black, red and blue are long gone. Not the cheapest part either the new blank along is around $90. I am also seeing the two wire hose blank is still available for the older 4250 machine. who knows how much time those has left before they are all gone. I have a 4650 which I had the replace the handle board and power nozzle socket along with the lower wand. I had the same problem as fantomfan. The plug and socket burned out for the power nozzle. Board is in and installed ( I ordered a spare while I was at it). Wand is available, and order is waiting to be sent. I agree, these are great vacuums and the centec style power nozzle is a huge improvement over the old style filter queen nozzle.

 

[sbakerde]

Any Generic hose blank

will fit your old machine. Since you don't have the newer handle grip you can find a replacement hose blank for that anywhere. They run about $30. I have several in different colors sitting in the storage unit. Gray, white, and black.

 

[dartman]

OK, so how do you reuse the old ends? Never tried to do anything with the ends and they don't look like they are designed to be taken apart and reused. If I could do that easily I could just cut down the bad hose and redo it.
I THINK the supposed new hose has the ends on it already but I'll have to double check on that, the other is a complete 4600 setup so other then the color and being 2 feet shorter it should plug right in to my new one.
Been searching Google for any repair guides or like that but not much luck, I guess most normal folks just buy the latest plastic cheapie and throw it away when it breaks.
Anyways thanks for the advice and help so far. I haven't even vacuumed the house with the new one yet but the powerhead really pulls itself along easily so not near the work like the older one was.

Well While I was waiting my half hour to post I fired up the new machine and MAN, it cleans and pulls nice. The autosetting really gets deep and leaves nice tracks where you've been. The carpet here was new but cheap when I bought it in sept 2012 and been trying to keep it nice and this guy certainly does the job, and yes the new powerhead is so much better then the old one that was really good as far as I could tell.
The variable speed control actually worked when I went back to all systems on and tweaked the hose just right so it was cool to see how it actually works, could definetly be a handy feature.
Too bad nobody makes machines like this anymore, at least not for a reasonable price that's easy to find.

 

[dartman]

Got the 4600 hose setup

OK, said the heck with it and ordered the used 4600 hose on eBay for about 45 bucks shipped, he had dropped the price 5 bucks just before the auction closed so I jumped on it with a minute to spare.
Said it was tested fine on a working 4600 so that should solve my hose issue for it for now when it arrives.
I also have a E mail in with the parts seller that lists a replacement hose for it to see if it's just a bare hose, or has the ends though for the price he's asking I bet it's hose only.
I'll have to hunt up a hose for the blue 4.3 someday as well, never hurts to have a good backup around.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

dartman

Terry,

That 1989 model 413 Power Tank - the one in light blue - also looks great!

~Ben

 

[dartman]

Thanks, like I said we got it in about 90 and were told it was maybe two years old so it was low miles and really nice.
Of course they were still making them then and parts were readily available, and we liked it so I kept fixing it as things broke.
I think we got one matching blue hose, then a red one, and finally the white one that is now got holes on both ends.
That powerhead came from across the country so I have some extra pipe and things now for it becuase it came with the pipes included, just no hose.

 

[dartman]

4600 hose arrived

Well the blue 4600 hose arrived today a few days earlier then claimed and it plugged right in and now everything works properly as far as I can tell.
One setting is just the cannister and the other is the cannister and the powerhead with variable motor/suction level for the cannister part, pretty cool.
Guess now I'll have to vacuum the whole house again and play with all the setting, other then being 2 feet shorter and blue it fits and works great and seems to be in really nice shape. Seller did a great packing it too and gave a honest description of it's condition though to me it might be a bit nicer then what he claimed.
I can add photos later if anyones interested.

 

[human]

Glad you got what you needed and at a good price. It sounds as though replacing the hose has restored full functionality to the vacuum cleaner. I can't help but notice how much those power nozzles look like the ones that used to come with Electrolux canisters back in the '60s and '70s. The blue one especially looks like the PN-1 I have with my Electrolux 1205. The red one looks more like a PN-2.

 

[dartman]

Well it would be cool if they actually work considering the problems trying to find new or good used ones these days.
Just noticed the little devider plastic prongs under the power hear cover where the brush sticks through are gone or cracked. I never noticed it before seeing how everything seemed complete and everything worked.
I think they are just to give the brush a bit of extra support and protection but still works, even after grabing a power charging cable that was laying on the floor today when I fired it up and did the house again. Wrapped it around the brush and shredded the cable but unwound it after turning everything off and that's when I noticed the little devider straps cracked or broken.
The 600 power head is different so can't just swap the bottom cover plate thing.
Guess I'll keep watching craigs list and eBay till a good one shows up cheap but doubt it needs to be intact to work properly.
It sure fluffs up the rug nicely.

 

[ngchris2]

Royal Classic 4650 motor replacement

Hi!
My old Royal 4650 canister vacuum that I bought new has a motor that "smelled" like it burnt out. I have the vacuum disassembled and I thought I had all the screws holding the motor out so that sliding it out of the canister would be simple. HA !!
I was wrong. I have tried using a large screwdriver to push the motor out of the canister, but it's stuck in there big time. Is there a special tool that needs to be used to remove the motor or is brute force the only way to get it out?
I hate to damage the canister or deform it by forcing the screwdriver between the motor and the housing, but unless I can get some advice, that's what I might have to do. And then I'll need to find a new motor.
I wanted the old one out so I could make sure that I was ordering or searching for the right part number.
Anyone that can help me, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks!

 

[fantomfan57]

My experience...

Had the same problem. It is the front and aft motor seals who are "hanging on" to the insides of the canister.

I tore the old motor up completely trying what you did, but it needed replacing.

I did not try it, but you may carefully squirt PB Blaster around the outer edge of the rear seal while the canister is facing down and leave that to soak. Wipe up all spillage and turn the canister the other end down, repeat....will be hard because you have those larger holes to get through deep inside the vacuum bag chamber.

Whatever you do, use a LARGE screwdriver, width has to fit through the inside bag chamber holes and tap around the perimeter to dislodge the front seal, the motor and the rear seal.

Best of luck!

 

[lesinutah]

Hey

Has anyone done cfm tests on these vacuums. They look like there a beast with massive air flow.
Les

 

[dartman]

Still using my 4650

I know when I'm doing my carpet it actually pulls it up and vibrates the carpet around the head like crazy so I think the suction is very strong but I have nothing to measure it with. They really need the variable speed slider as when doing throw rugs it'll pick them up and stop the brush if too low and max power. I think my 5700 upright is a bit stronger but it isn't as versatile as far as cleaning anything with extra attachments. It's too bad they stopped making them but I guess plastic bagless became the new must have and way cheaper to make.

 

[ngchris2]

Royal Classic 4650 motor replacement

Thanks for the info on motor replacement fantomfan57!
I will go ahead and do what you suggested. Hopefully I won't ruin the old motor taking it out and I have a large screwdriver I was trying to hammer the thing out with, but stopped because it is really stuck and I didn't want to destroy the housing.
The motor did smell burnt, but if I can't look at it to see what is wrong, then I won't know if it really is dead and what motor to replace it with. I found a motor on e-bay that says it fits a Royal Classic canister, but you are probably aware that it's hard to find replacement parts for these "vintage" machines.

 

[ultralux88]

I’ve got a truly beautiful blue one that I bought back in 2005 from Marty Rocha at the LA convention, and one of those red ones fromAlex Braun in 2013. Love both of them!

 

[fantomfan57]

My Royal...

came to me from a Vacuum Shop owner who was told by her husband that the motor was bad and that the motor was no longer available.

My $25 purchase came with everything, all attachments and a super long hose.

I can not remember where I got it from, but I replaced the motor with a Lamb one that looked the same as the old motor. Well except the old motor fan housing was badly damaged by me...trying to remove it.

Went in and runs perfectly. I did lightly lubricate the seals when putting the motor back in with a bit of diluted dish washing soap knowing it would dry. I waited to make sure before turning the motor on.