Sebo canister or Air-way

[bimmer740]

I'm looking to purchase a new vacuum but im not sure what to buy. I am a former member of the VCCC and have always loved vacuums since I was a little kid. I was always a huge fan of Electrolux but their current machines do not have enough power. I love my Kirby Diamond Edition but its loud and I having 75% bare floors its not the ideal vacuum for my house. I also have a Miele Red Velvet and Blue Moon. I like these machines but their power nozzles just dont seem strong enough for american homes with pets and they are awful when it comes to manueverability. I loved my Electrolux Ultralux that i had years ago and since the Air-way Centurion has a similar design and more power i thought this might be a good choice. I am also interested in the Sebo C3.1 canister. The Sebo is supposed to be well made and an excellent cleaner. I also would like to check out a Rainbow, but they are not popular in my area and im not sure if i want to have a machine that requires so much work to use it. All you need to do is plug in the mieles and you are set. Please let me know what anyone thinks about both the Air-way and the sebo. The Air-way sounds like a great machine but I never heard of them until i was part of the VCCC. Thank You! -Steven

 

[swingette]

well, the sebo got excellent marks in CR, and has an excellent powernozzle. if its as well-engineered as the sebo upright... good thing. ive always wanted a sebo canister, or a sebo *felix*.

http://www.sebo-vacuums.com/Media/pdf/ET-CManual.pdf

 

[compactc9]

What power nozzle are you using on the Mieles? If you are using the SEB217, then you might want to get the larger one with the headlight. Otherwise, I personally ould go with the AirWay, its a great vacuum that is built to work well and last.

 

[dualsanitronic]

The AirWay is the very best of its type,bar none!

 

[air-waycharlie]

Air-Way

I always tell people that inquire about Air-Way........after you get tired of trying 2 to 3 different vacuums and they are unsatisfactory for whatever reason, you will want to purchase an Air-Way. It's designed to last a life time and longer. Hand assembled, made of lightweight metal, the finest in filtration, the power nozzle is now "Quiet Drive" and built in the USA.

An Air-Way is the last vacuum you will need to purchase. I still use my Grandmother's Mark II 88 from 1973. I would put it's cleaning ability against any other manufacturer and it's filtration against any other manufacturer.

 

[bimmer740]

I have the 236 power nozzle (the largest one with a head light) on the Red Velvet. Its the standard nozzle that comes with it. On the Blue Moon i have the 226 i believe, it was the largest power nozzle prior to the models with the head light. They are very good, but not great. Does the airway power nozzle have a beater bar? Is the Centurion a quiet machine like the mieles? How does the rainbow compair to the sebo and airway? Sorry for all the questions, lol, but i know that you all you're talking about so this is the best resource for me.
-Thanks!

 

[kirbykid]

I LOVED MY AIRWAY!!! that is the brand i would suggest.... I have the Miele Red star(before the Red velvet) and I love it it is so quiet and powerful but yeah you are right the power nozzle sucks)and not in a good way)) oi !!

 

[air-waycharlie]

More on Air-Way

The Air-Way canister is a 12 amp vacuum so there is a moderate amount of noise. It is not as quiet as the Miele. However, the modest noise difference is well worth the difference!

About 2 weeks ago, I was with Jeff Parker and Fred Nelson in Chicago and we looked at Miele's in a variety of price ranges. I could not believe for the $$$$ how cheap the hose was! And, IMHO, I thought the power nozzles looked like something from "Barbie's Dream House."

The Air-Way power nozzle is made by Cen-Tec Systems. It has a 4 position height adjuster, headlight and is V belt driven making it very quiet. The beater bar was changed to a 4 brush strip brush roll--quadraflex type. It is very effective and the customers that have purchased from me really like them. I have received many unsolicited testimonials from customers.

I have had no personal experience with SEBO so I can't comment. The newest Rainbows have much improved suction--as they should for a $2300 suggested retail price. I've tried to "like" Rainbows but I find them SO labor intensive to use. And, for that price, I would prefer it NOT be made out of molded plastic injection.

I also think that Mieles are frightfully costly for all plastic bodied vacuums. Air-Way is all metal, hand assembled and well under $1000 dollars. Seems to make far more sense to me.

 

[andy]

Sebo/Miele

Steven

I am a dealer for both machines, and I personally prefer the Miele hands down. The Sebo handle is very small, and the powernozzle does not clean nearly as well as Miele's 236 powerhead. The Sebo is an excellent machine, but it is not nearly as refined and user friendly as the Miele. Have you seen the new S5's? They have the absolute BEST floor tool on the market.

I also prefer Miele over Airway, but then again, that's just me. The airflow of the Miele is far superior, and it's much less clumsy than the Airway. However, I am VERY interested in seeing this quiet drive powernozzle that you speak of, Charlie. I hated those old style Kenmore powerheads. They were rattly, and while they cleaned well, they didn't groom my carpet worth a damn.

I'm probably gonna commit social suicide on this board with these next comments, but one thing that I don't understand is why people get all hung up over this plastic/metal issue. The old owner of this store sold many Royal all metal uprights, yet I get several in every week that have worn out pieces in the handle fork. The pins that hold the bag ring on wear out, and there are just several areas that get loose and rattly over time. The problems that I see with plastic machines is mainly in uprights that use high speed brushrolls and motors mounted in plastic housings that melt from all the heat build up. Yet I hardly ever see melted 7 amp Hoover Elites. I got some three year old Windsor Sensors in for service the other day that were used in a Sleep Inn. Once again, every day use. They're an all plastic machine, but you know what was wrong with them? The housekeepers had run over the cords and chewed them up.

Don't write off Miele and other modern machines just because you see alot of plastic in them. There's far more to the design of the vacuum that determines overall quality. And like my Royal example, all metal isn't necessarily better. Our area Molly Maids uses Miele as an attachment machine. They brought one in that after 11 years of daily use, had a burnt out motor. The other parts of the machine were just fine.

 

[talktotravis]

Miele hose

With no disrespect to Air Way (and I actually don't know about their hose so I'm just guessing) I prefer the Miele type any day, any time. For one, the hose is very lightweight, so that if one is dusting it won't knock over things on a table or counter. Secondly, Miele hoses ARE entirely crushproof, despite their light weight--I have seen many a crushed wire-reinforced hose, it just takes one step too many. While others such as Aerus and Kenmore claim better airflow due to being wire-reinforced, I find the tradeoff minimal--thier relative inflexibility, weight, and fragility are not worth it. (And I have yet to find a cleaner that matches the performance of the Miele vortex motor). As Andy says, the Miele has the right stuff where it counts--sometimes it's in the design.

 

[talktotravis]

Miele Floor Tool

Forgot to add--just as Andy claims, the new Miele floor tool (parquet) is unmatched--there's simply nothing like it on the market. It swivels in all directions, is low profile, does not leak at the neck, and can lay completely flat to go under furniture. Even though I love the machines, I also find them pricey--but this tool is worth it.

 

[andy]

Hoses

The Airway hose is a lightweight crushproof style, but it is the common 1-1/4" diameter variety which facilitates less airflow than Miele hoses.

 

[bimmer740]

New Mieles

I was just looking at the new Miele S5's and they look nice. However the power head is the same as the one i have on the red velvet. Is the Red Velvet vortex motor the same as the one in the s5? I like that they have improved the hose handle on the top of the line model and how the hose doesnt swivel at the canister end (i cant stand the swivel on mine). I dont know about the new floor brush, but i will tell you that i absolutly HATE both the smooth floor brush and combination brush i have for mine! They both get clogged with hair and just push the dirt around the front of the bristles. They kirby bare floor brush from my diamond edition is my favorite! Anyone know how the length of the cord on the Airway compares to the Mieles? I do think that the mieles are over priced for a plastic machine and i loved my all metal ultralux. Thanks!

 

[talktotravis]

Miele

Yes, the SEB 236 is the same in the S5, and the hose connection to the body is much improved--it does not swivel, but feels sturdier and does not leak air. I believe that the early Red Velvet models used the 2-fan 1100W motor and the latest ones, prior to the s5, have the Vortex. The way I always tell is by looking at either the hose control or the control on the body--1100W is 2-fan, 1200 is Vortex. The new floor tool, although only for hard floors, is night and day compared to a combo rug/floor tool (which I don't like either). The hose handle is now a pistol grip system similar to Sebo, but doesn't leak and feels better made. I like the Kirby floor tool as well, but the Miele stole its lunch and is my new favorite.

 

[andy]

Floor brushes

Miele has addressed the issue of hair getting caught up in the bristles by making the brush out of a combination of natural and synthetic fiber. Just try this new floor tool, trust me, you'll be hooked.

 

[air-waycharlie]

With due respect to my fellow posters, I will only add at this point, that a prospective buyer should really just try out the vacuums they are considering and see what feels/works best for them and their pocketbooks.

I think we all have our favorites for a variety of reasons which is what makes this club and site so much fun.

I'll admit that I am partial to Air-Way and grew up with them as well as Electrolux and Hoover. So, I'm probably always go to recommend them and I've arrived at this point in life, (mid 50's now....gosh that scary!), that I really believe in putting American made money back into the hands of American workers. And, yes, I drive an American made car. Okay, go ahead and shoot me now!

Seriously, I'm glad we can have a discussion of this sort on a site like this and I stick with what I said. It's like buying a car.......take a test drive, or vacuum if you will, and determine what is best for your and your needs. I've always let my customers "play" with an Air-Way if they have any hesitation as part of being successful in the world of selling vacuums is putting the right machine with the right buyer. I do sell several other lines as well.

 

[andy]

Charlie

Do you have a pic of that powernozzle with the new brushroll? I find this very interesting.

 

[talktotravis]

Charlie

Well said, everyone has their favorites and I respect your opinion. I honestly haven't used an Air-way, and I'm sure they are great machines. (Last canister I had, however, was a Royal "pony," and they seem similar--that was a great machine). For me, the Miele suits my needs fine now, and should for a while, but that can always change and then I may look at Air-way. No doubt that it is a very well-made machine, and being American-made is great also.

 

[air-waycharlie]

Andy,

I should have said "Hi!" to you long ago and congrats on your store and I have followed your articles regularly with great delight that appear in the VDTA magazine. We missed you in St. Louis! Any chance for Omaha?

Back to business, UPS just delivered several packages from Air-Way while I am writing this.

Upon opening the power nozzle box, it is the original power nozzle but with a chevron brush roll and no beater bar. They did tell me they were going to go back to this but never gave a time frame. I'm going to check the other boxes and see what power nozzles are in them.

A Quiet Series was sold to Fred Stachnik and several other non-vacuum people but regular customers. You may want to inquire Fred about pictures of that model.

Air-Way, as you know, has made several changes including the bags and as I mentioned here, the power nozzle. The Quiet Series was used starting this year and now it seems to have reverted back.

Pictures will be forthcoming here later today or tomorrow.

 

[air-waycharlie]

New Info RE: Air-Way

Okay, I just got off the phone with Air-Way and here it is direct from the factory:

The housing for the most current power nozzle is just like the one used when the Signature Series was introduced as modified by Tom Gasko.

The brushroll is a chevron design using the V belt and motor. It is considered a "Quiet Drive" series because of this. It still has the 4 height adjuster, headlight, quick connect/disconnect and "cord management" holder at the hose end for direct connect to the hose.

I will do pictures later.

 

[air-waycharlie]

P/N

Here is the complete power nozzle with wands.

 

[air-waycharlie]

Close up of the power nozzle only.

 

[air-waycharlie]

The underside showing the chevron brushroll with fairly stiff, nylon brushes.

 

[air-waycharlie]

Here you see the Cen-Tec labeling and note the last letters are QD for Quiet Drive.

 

[bimmer740]

New Air Way power nozzle

One of the things that stuck out in my mind was that the Air Way still had a beater bar on its power nozzle. I thought that it may be what the power nozzles on my other machines were missing to make them good and not excellent. Why would they change to a chevron brush with no bar? Is the beater bar power nozzle a better cleaner? Are their any canister that have a beater bar anymore?
Thanks
-Steven

 

[air-waycharlie]

This is my opinion ONLY.........I think to stay competative, Air-Way had to reduce the noise of their vacuums. The only way was to reduce the noise of the power nozzle as the main canister is not the loud.

Smooth belts and V belts are much less noisy than geared belts. The power nozzle with the beater bar used a geared belt. Not only did you have the vibration of the beater but the whiney noise of the geared belt. To me is was no big deal to others they would claim it was damaging their hearing.

If they had kept the beater bars with the V belt, it probably would have been too much drag/friction for that type belt making it stretch out too fast or even break. The beater bar was very effective and I'm sorry to see it go.

However, much of today's carpeting just really does not need a beater bar any longer. Royal discontinued using the beater bar nozzle as far as I know on their canisters and I'm not sure Kenmore is using it any longer. The brushes are so aggressive and well made, that in conjuction with the chevron design are quite effective.

I've used the new nozzle on my berber, which is one of the most difficult to get really clean, and it seems to work fine. Customers that have purchased the Air-Way with the new nozzle have had no complaints to me but only sing praises of their vacuums.

 

[normvac]

New Air Way

Charlie
I am a major fan of Air Way (I have your old 55 and 66). I have been watching for a decent 77 to collect. You just don't
see them here in the columbus, ohio area.
Can you post a picture of the new/current machine. I would
like to have a visual of the difference between then and now!
Thanks

 

[rexairman]

I am a big fan of both Air-Way and Rainbow, and sell them both. I still have trouble figuring out what makes any of the European canisters special, other than a protected profit for their dealers. This includes Miele, Bosch, Sebo, etc. I am constantly approached by these companies to sell their products, but have not done so. They are all very well built machines, but of very conventional technology. I love the Air-Way for the fact that it is built the way it always has been. Incredible, all metal, hand built quality. If a customer needs a vacuum that performs only the traditional functions of a vacuum cleaner, Air-Way is the way to go.
Now the Rainbow is a completely different situation. They have completely overcome the objection of being difficult to set up and use, with the new e2. The e2 is A.H.A.M. certified as an air cleaner, and designed to be used like any other air cleaner, running continuously around the clock 24/7. To accomplish this, a new motor, which has no carbon brushes (to produce emissions or limit motor life) has been developed. On low, air cleaning, speed, the machine is virtually silent. The user lets it run all the time, cleaning the air, which it does with better than HEPA results. When you want to vacuum, you simply connect the hose, and turn the switch on to high speed. When finished, pour the dirty water down the toilet, refill the basin with clean water, and turn the machine back on, on low speed, and let it run. I have talked to customers whose machines have run 24/7 for two and a half years, since this model was introduced. The machine also picks up water, enabling it to scrub the kitchen floor, and clean carpet. The new AquaMate II shampooer is very convenient, and does such a good job that there is no product I carry on which I have received as many compliments on the job it does. And these machines have a history of running for 40 or 50 years without problems. What is also amazing is that in the US, the Rainbow is the second largest selling canister cleaner on the market. Only the combined number of Kenmore and Panasonic (who build the Kenmores for Sears) is greater. And according to surveys conducted by Nordhaus and Associates of Southfield, MI, and The Schoenwald Group, of New York City, the Rainbow has the highest owner satisfaction rating of 98%.

 

[bimmer740]

Air-Way

I am still waiting for product material to arrive from Air-Way about their machines so can check them out. I dont think that there is a dealer in my area, since i had never heard of them since Tom G. told me about them when i joined the VCCC a while back. Is there any place online that has more detailed info, since the AirWay site has very limited info? I also noticed while checking out one members pictures online that they have the purple Centurion, and it has the newer style (kenmore like) centec power nozzle. Anyone know if that is what the Anniversary Edition power nozzle looks like? What is the price of these machines? All I know is that they are less than the $1200 that the Red Velvet lists for. Has anyone tried the new Windtunel? I bought a new self propelled one and then quickly returned it about 6 months ago because it was loud enough to make a person go deaf and it was sooo clumsy! It was however a pretty decent performer. Are the new ones any quieter and easier to steer?

-Steven