Royal 884, bent armature fan. What to do?

[superocd]

I recently disassembled my Royal 884 5.4 amp. Upon trying to spin the suction fan loose by locking the armature fan with a screwdriver (and being as gentle as I could), I bent the armature fan quite a bit.

After pulling the armature out of the shell, I noticed that the armature fan was quite rusty and felt brittle. I bent the blades back as best as I could, however, they are not perfect and I'm afraid that it will throw the armature off balance and wreck the bearings (though eventually, I'm contemplating replacing the front bearing/plate assembly even though it seems to run smooth, simply because any Royal parts are only going to be that much harder to find as time goes on and I don't want to be stuck with a bad front bearing down the road and no ability to track down a replacement).

Are my concerns about the armature fan valid or am I making much ado about nothing? How would I even go about replacing the cooling fan? Is it even possible to replace it? I would think that it is crimped on there permanently and would require replacement of the entire armature, which would be a shame because it is in otherwise perfect condition, with barely any wear on the commutator.

Too bad they didn't copy Kirby's ingenious idea of a locking hole in the armature shaft.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Superocd

You will likely have to obtain a new armature. In this case, you'll want to find part no. 1-618001-000 if the cleaner was made before 1990, or part no. 1-884001-000 if it was made after 1990.

~Ben

 

[lesinutah]

Hey

Believe it or not but the fan does come off. Take it off. Clean it really well. Get a level maybe a protractor make sure everything is perfectly aligned.
The brittle feel is how they all feel.
When putting back on get a big socket that goes around armature shaft. Slowly press down it goes back into place but spin armature inhousing making sure no wires are getting cut.
I have done this 2 or 3 times. Les

 

[broomvac]

Today may be your lucky day. I spotted an armature on eBay (link below) which, according to Ben, just might fit your Royal. Not at all at a bad price, either.

If you don't want to buy a new armature, you could just bend your fan back into shape as best as you can and call it good. It's highly unlikely that any kind of imbalance caused by a bent cooling fan would wreck the bearings any time soon, if ever. Bearings are cheap and easy to replace, anyways.

Alternatively, you could pull a used armature from a scrap Royal at a local vac shop. You would be surprised by what some of the old shops hang on to.

Finally, I suppose you could give your armature to a machinist who could check its balance. He/she could shave off some metal where needed to put it back into perfect balance.

When I remove vacuum fans, I think it is best practice to hold the suction fan with a leather glove and spin the belt pulley off with a vice grip. If you already tried this technique and the suction fan slipped without loosening the pulley, then yeah, I guess jamming the cooling would be your only hope of getting the motor apart. That said, I resort to that only if there is an absolute need to. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

https://www.ebay.com/i/282729119684...=56281259645&rlsatarget=pla-483901421219&abcI

 

[broomvac]

In case you were curious to know, ball bearings fail because

a) the lubricant fails (unrelated to vibration) and causes wear, or

b) the rolling elements (ball bearings) fatigue and begin galling. Most properly lubricated ball bearings will eventually fatigue because, in normal operation, the balls roll to the underside of the bearing where they have to support the force on the shaft from the belt and then roll back up to the top of the bearing, where they are now not loaded. This cyclically stresses the balls which can fatigue them and eventually cause material failure.

Any vibration from an imbalance is just going to be another cyclic load superimposed with the load imparted by the belt. In your case, any stress from vibration would likely be negligible compared to the stress placed on the bearing from the belt. That means you don't have to worry about it.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

The link you submitted: that is for a 3 amp armature.

Here's a guide to all the Royal armatures over the years:

For 3 amp motors (post-1976):
1-608001-000 = armature
1-801002-000 = field
1-608004-000 = fan, screw on style
1-608261-000 = drive shaft

For 4.5 amp motors (1980 to 1989):
1-880001-000 = armature
1-880002-000 = field
1-608004-000 = fan, screw on style
1-608261-000 = drive shaft

For 5.4 amp motor (old style, 1985 to 1990):
1-618001-000 = armature
1-618002-000 = field
1-620004-000 = fan, screw on style
1-618261-000 = drive shaft

For 5.4 amp motor (new style, 1990 to 1995):
1-884001-000 = armature
1-618002-000 = field
1-608005-000 = fan, slip on style
1-380261-000 = drive shaft

For 6 amp motor (old style, 1984 to 1990):
1-620001-000 = armature
1-618002-000 = field
1-620004-000 = fan, screw on style
1-618261-000 = drive shaft

For 6 amp motor (new style, 1990 to 1995):
1-680001-000 = armature
1-618002-000 = field
1-608005-000 = fan, slip on style
1-380261-000 = drive shaft

For 7 amp motor (1990 to 1995):
1-780001-000 = armature
1-780002-000 = field
1-608005-000 = fan, slip on style
1-380261-000 = drive shaft

~Ben

 

[broomvac]

Ben,

Sorry for the confusion. It seems I did not link the correct armature. I misread the number by one digit. Sorry to misquote you.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Superocd

You could try to straighten the armature that you have back into shape, and straighten its cooling fan into shape again. My Dad did successfully do that with my 1972 Kirby Classic's armature cooling fan.

~Ben

 

[lesinutah]

Hmm

Like I said you can spend money or try to fix it. It needs fixed or replaced. Pull it off try to fix it. I'm all for saving money and I have armatures pretty close to 109 years old. I have not had one ruined yet.
Les

 

[rivstg1]

on a positive POST surgery to a Royal upright....I sure enjoy using them. They just glide over the carpet and p/u everything thats there and presumably under the carpet . very nice machines!

 

[madman]

As long as the fan is in good enough shape not to fly off while in use, and to do its cooling job, there shouldn't be any harm in keeping it. You could always just balance your armature if the fan has lost sufficient material to unbalance it. Though I doubt the weight of the fan really compares to the weight of the armature.

You could buy a Dubro balancer, and you might have to make a piece of wood to mount it on, like I did. Stick the armature on it, see if it has a heavy side, and either add or remove weight to one side to balance it out. Pretty simple, really.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DuBro-...035161?hash=item2c708fd419:g:eXIAAOSwB5tbOSAx

 

[superocd]

Well, I bent the armature fan blades back as best as I could. They're not straight and true as they were from the factory, but good enough. I will have to find some other way to lock the armature should I ever need to remove the fan or get into the motor, as the blades are very easily bent. I ran the vacuum after I got it back together, and there wasn't any vibrations or weird sounds, so I guess it'll be fine, though it was a little nerve-wracking to know that there aren't any replacement 5.4 amp armatures availiable (let alone many other Royal parts). I've grown to love each vacuum in my collection!

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Superocd

How old is your 884, anyway?

If it is from before March 1990, it will have a six-blade fan (1-620004-000) and the older-style armature (1-618001-000) and field (1-618002-000); but if from there, it will have a nine-blade fan (1-608005-000), the newer-style armature (1-884001-000) and field (again, 1-618002-000).

~Ben

 

[lesinutah]

Balance

If you attach armature putting armature in straight it spins at a descent speed.
Your not going to get fan perfect. I used a speed square and a level to get as close as I could.
Attaching to drill is how I use commuter brush stone. I can clean off residue and not be in vacuum motor housing.
Almost every armature fan is going to wear. The fan balanced as close you can works. It's optimal to get it balances and new but as long as you have the fan attached correctly the fan isn't going to do much. It's lightweight aluminum and the armature is heavier. The armture fan is minute. A broken metal fan would be more detremental than this.
Les

 

[superocd]

Ben,

My 884 is from 1988.

How come Royal had so many revisions in their motors? Did they change suppliers frequently?

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Superocd

I wish I knew about that... I understand about the revisions, but as to change of suppliers, that is a tough question.

~Ben

 

[madman]

If you're worried about future maintenance, my advice would be to put some anti-seize lubricant (aka silver grease) on the threads for the fan blade, and then not to actually tighten the nut/blade. The threads are opposite of the rotation of the motor, so the nut will tighten itself. Sometimes it'll tighten itself so much, you'd think it was put on with an air gun.

Speaking of air guns, impact drivers are perfect for removing things like this. Just air gun the nut off without holding the armature at all. Though if the blade itself is the nut, you might not be able to do that.

This crosses over with my mechanic-ing. Old fashioned belt-driven radiator fans, the kind that screw on, I never tighten them, and always put a little silver grease on the threads. I've had many other mechanics berate me for doing that, always saying the fan will unscrew itself if it's left loose. But actually, I've had many occasions where I'm working on a car I worked on years ago, and I've had to fight to unscrew fans that I never tightened.

 

[lesinutah]

Meh

Mechanic
Madmen that post reminds me of the old 1976 Dodge ram charger I had. It had a 440 in it. I dropped transmission and transfer case in it. I spent a guess 10k on it over 3 years. The radiator fan also threw the belt off. It took a chunk out of the radiator. That vehicle never went more than around the block. It was the black hole. I had a guy put a transfer case conversion kit. He put the thing in upside down. I wondered why it never came out of 4wheel drive even with a suburban front end in it.
Wow it's been a few years. I learned alot of what or how not to do things.
Most fans before have a slotted portion that is threaded in same direction as the armature shaft. It then goes into threads. If you try to thread it backwards before reaching threads it will strip the threads.
Nice tangent anyways.
Les