Riccar R27

[lokisdads]

Has anyone else heard about the new Riccar R27 yet. Apparently the R25 is going away. The R27 will basically the same machine, but in a different color and only two models. Production will be shifted from China to Vietnam. I actually talked to a Tacony rep on Saturday in a local vac store.

 

[panasonicvac]

Certainly news to me. I'll keep my eye on this thread for any updates.

 

[hank]

Shifting to Vietnam likely to avoid higher tariffs on China. Would have loved to see Tacony bring back assembly here with the newer machines, but I never thought they would anyways. Was talking to my local vac shop owner a few weeks back, said he’s already had to eat the 30% on what he sells in store and raise prices accordingly.

I asked him what he thought about the tariffs and his response was something along the lines of “it’ll force riccar to be US made again!!”

Yea. Ok buddy.

 

[kirbylux77]

Hank - Yes, that could be the case. But, knowing Tacony, I would be willing to bet the real reason they are moving production to Vietnam is quality control issues. The fact they changed the model name and slimmed down to 2 models is proof of it - if there weren't known issues with the R25 series, they wouldn't have changed the model name! And I personally have heard a mixed bag about these uprights - that they clean well, but nowhere as good as the Miele Dynamic U1 models did when they were still in production, and overall lower quality than their previous Vibrance/Symmetry uprights and lower quality than other premium brands. Also note, Tacony did have quality control issues with Chinese manufacturers in the past - if you remember, with the Prima/Wonder canisters, they were specifically disassembling them and checking for quality issues at the St James, Missouri plant once they arrived from China because they KNEW there were gonna be issues.

Hate to say it, but if Tacony keeps on their present path, I don't see them surviving and staying in business much longer.

 

[blackheart]

Avoiding tariffs does seem to be a very likely aspect to it. I am curious though being out of the industry what specific issues were they having with them?
I don't think we'll see a shift back to US manufacturing with them. Sad too, they were once a pretty reputable brand but they've definitely fallen from grace to a degree.

 

[rlsellman21]

Has anyone else heard about the new Riccar R27 yet. Apparently the R25 is going away. The R27 will basically the same machine, but in a different color and only two models. Production will be shifted from China to Vietnam. I actually talked to a Tacony rep on Saturday in a local vac store.

It would be even better if they shifted production from China to the USA.

 

[cheesewonton]

All those tariffs are being shot down by the courts. Presidents do not possess the authority to impose tariffs unilaterally. Only Congress has that authority. Firms making hasty decisions based on these tariffs are going to be worse off in the end. If Tacony's move is related to build quality or to the fact that Xi Jinping has been forcing even US companies to hire a person from the Chinese Communist Party who's job is to ensure the ideological purity of the workers and managers including forcing companies to pay employees to attend monthly party meetings then I could see a reason to move. But really, Vietnam is only very slightly different. China and Vietnam, while regional rivals are two peas in a pod in terms of how their governments are organized and both are harsh police states.

 

[Ant_Tenna]

I've been wondering more than anything if they're going to be coming out with a new canister line to replace the Prima. I'd like to see them go back to a unit more akin to the old Pristine and Impeccable/Immaculate.

I hope this new R27 solves my two big issues with the R25: quality/reliability and despite having a pretty powerful suction motor it never seemed to get that power down to the nozzle very well in my experience. I really like the R25 on paper but it's execution didn't impress me sadly.

 

[kirbylux77]

Ant_Tenna, I agree with you! That is what I have heard mainly. Also, it seems that they were attempting a Electrolux-style upright, with some Singer touches like the front headlight mounted in the bumper. But, unfortunately, poorly executed. Like the small bag and the fact they didn't make the metal baseplate and brushroll STANDARD on the base model! That was a HUGE MISTAKE considering Tacony makes it a big point all the advantages metal brushrolls with replaceable strips have over wooden and plastic brushrolls. For a premium machine, that's unacceptable for it not to be standard on the base model!

As for the canisters, I don't think they will make their own canister again. The fact they dropped the Prima/Wonder is proof. Why they would do that, instead of evolving the design, is dumb. Makes no sense to spend millions to develop a product and then drop it after less than a decade on the market. I actually picked up a Simplicity Wonder with the compact powerhead over the winter for $100 - yes, it needs some improvements, like the quality of the HEPA Filter paper, the hose handle could be better made, and the bag is way too big for the compartment - but it's made decently enough that if they made a few changes, it could have easily competed with the Miele canisters. And I totally agree with you on the older canisters - I own a Simplicity Gusto.6, a Bank Vault (black Simplicity Verve) and a Riccar Pizzazz, and they're actually really nice canisters! Sure, not quite the quality of the Miele/Sebo canisters, but also priced accordingly when they were on the market. And they also filled a nice in-between gap between the "budget" Kenmore/Panasonic canisters and the high end Miele/Sebo canisters.

The Simplicity Scout, from what I can see, is nothing more than a rebrand of a cheaply made generic Chinese canister, with a ridiculously small bag compartment and a washable HEPA Filter. Tacony should be ashamed to put such cheap junk on the market!

 

[cheesewonton]

Kirbylux77, that Simplicty Scout is the same vacuum Airway is selling as the Quiet Kleen with an MSRP of $1,100. It is sold around the world with different brand names on it. The Australians know it as a Wertheim 7. In Germay and Switzerland it is sold in suction only form as a Sattrap Aspira. In Iran they are sold as the "Rugen Germany RU-1110" with a German flag on the box. But they are also sold there as the Persia France. Either way all of them are made by Qingdao Creation Industry & Commerce Co. Ltd. Same company makes the other canister Airway sells ( the Agilus and its twin who's name escapes me ), along with the Cirrus VC-439, it's Johnny Vac twin and the VAPamore ( CRAPamore ) MR500 Vento in all its screaming yellow glory. They also make one of the Prolux canisters.

I have a Riccar 1700 and that is good quality vacuum. Not sure if it was worth the $1,100 they sold new for but it has been durable and reliable for me.

 

[panasonicvac]

I used to really like Tacony, nowadays it's harder for me to recommend their products. I'll give them credit, they actually brought back the Riccar Vibrance uprights. How often do you see that from a company?

 

[bagintheback]

When did Tacony move its production abroad? I thought their whole thing was that they built products in St. Louis. Their prices have always been too high but charging $500-$800 for another a made-in-China Jet-Flo clone is wild.

 

[cheesewonton]

When did Tacony move its production abroad? I thought their whole thing was that they built products in St. Louis. Their prices have always been too high but charging $500-$800 for another a made-in-China Jet-Flo clone is wild.

Riccar's first upright vacuums, even before Tacony bought them, were made in Taiwan by the same company making their sewing machines. Later on they were buying rebranded Panasonic vacuums. Riccar was buying canister vacs from either Samsung or Daewoo in South Korea for long time ( models 1400-1800 were Korean made ). A few of the premium Riccar and Tacony canister models were made in the US but that didn't last and they have sourced canister vacs from China since 2010-ish I want to say. Some premium uprights are made in the US along with power nozzles but most Tacony uprights, especially those sold by Carpet Pro, CleanMax and Tornado are Chinese made. Simplicity are all Chinese made. Tacony got their wee-wees slapped by the Federal Trade Commission for putting their American flag stickers on Chinese made vacuums, again around 2010-ish. Dysonman would know the details best as he lived a lot of that when he ran their vacuum museum.

 

[bagintheback]

Oh wow, I didn't know about the FTC lawsuit. That makes sense! I haven't really taken a close look at a brand new Riccar for years. They used to put those giant American flag stickers on them which seemed to be the primary selling point for the dealers in videos I saw on YouTube for years.

 

[Ant_Tenna]

When did Tacony move its production abroad? I thought their whole thing was that they built products in St. Louis. Their prices have always been too high but charging $500-$800 for another a made-in-China Jet-Flo clone is wild.

The Riccar 8000 series, Vibrance/R20, SupraLite, and Brilliance/Radiance (along with their Simplicity versions) were built at the St. Louis plant using varying degrees of American made and Globally sourced parts. Over time the globally (China) sourced parts became more dominant especially as older established models were replaced with newer machines.

The higher end canisters were produced in South Korea by Daewoo before production was moved to the U.S around 2010 (the machines that use numbers like 1500, 1700, 1800 etc are the Daweoo built machines and when they switched to names like Pristine, Impeccable, Immaculate are the U.S versions). Those were phased out around 2019 by the Prima/Wonder which were entirely built in China but retailed for nearly as much as the previous South Korean/American made canisters. The Prima line was huge set backward for the Tacony canister line and IMO it being built in China is only one of it's problems. But that's a topic for another day.

The R25 replaced the Vibrance line and is also entirely made in China. It's unfortunate because theres a lot to like about the R25 feature wise, but it's been rather disappointing especially for it's price. Miele's entry U1 started between $150-$200 cheaper than the entry R25 for a higher quality German built unit with similar features

 

[cheesewonton]

I have an early Riccar 2400 canister vacuum that is nothing more than a Kenmore Whispertone with Riccar branding. Simplicity also sold a version of the Whispertone. I collect Japanese vacuums off Japanese on line flea markets using a Japanese proxy buying service and have seen Riccar branded vacuums sold in Japan way back in the 1970s that were funky Japan market Panasonic models with Riccar branding. None of these were sold outside of Japan.

Remember Riccar is originally a Japanese company. The Riccar Company was founded on September 16, 1939, originally under the name of Nippon Shokusan Kogyo; then Rikagaku Kogyo. They changed their name to the Riccar Sewing Machine Company in 1949 and in 1973 changed their name again to Riccar Co Ltd. Later on Riccar contracted with Zeng Hsing Industrial Co Ltd of Taiwan to manufacture their sewing machines. The same company would also make upright vacuums for Riccar based very closely on the Panasonic Jet Flo design. In 1985 the Riccar Company was bought by Daiei, the Japanese equivalent of Marks & Spencer. I have not been able to figure out when Tacony bought them.

 

[cheesewonton]

The Riccar 8000 series, Vibrance/R20, SupraLite, and Brilliance/Radiance (along with their Simplicity versions) were built at the St. Louis plant using varying degrees of American made and Globally sourced parts. Over time the globally (China) sourced parts became more dominant especially as older established models were replaced with newer machines.

The higher end canisters were produced in South Korea by Daewoo before production was moved to the U.S around 2010 (the machines that use numbers like 1500, 1700, 1800 etc are the Daweoo built machines and when they switched to names like Pristine, Impeccable, Immaculate are the U.S versions). Those were phased out around 2019 by the Prima/Wonder which were entirely built in China but retailed for nearly as much as the previous South Korean/American made canisters. The Prima line was huge set backward for the Tacony canister line and IMO it being built in China is only one of it's problems. But that's a topic for another day.

The R25 replaced the Vibrance line and is also entirely made in China. It's unfortunate because theres a lot to like about the R25 feature wise, but it's been rather disappointing especially for it's price. Miele's entry U1 started between $150-$200 cheaper than the entry R25 for a higher quality German built unit with similar features

Nope. The Pristine was made in China. Likewise the Simplicity Cinch.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wbcAAOSwKJBoVF8R/s-l1600.webp
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QBEAAOSweFNnjENB/s-l1600.webp

The Impeccable is US made however.

 

[cheesewonton]

Here you go, made in China but the power nozzle has their little made in the USA sticker. Technically true since the power nozzles were indeed made in Missouri but not the vacuum cleaner. This is what got Tacony sideways with the Federal government. No big fine but they got a Federal finger wagged at them very publicly, and deservedly as it seems even now some still think the Chinese made machines came from Missouri.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256982761177?_skw=Riccar+canister+vacuum+cleaner&itmmeta=01JYHQ2CSCX42JP3JRTK7X1MF8&hash=item3bd55dbed9:g:zMUAAOSwmZBoVFzL&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAABAFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1fYbfuPl7cVyCzxjvnkA/KxCA/5NirupSVFKQMTrAQqCKN2btwRNwNH47n2xNeA2JBV26YY+174COu1s9rp5/FIuERLR85xw0jN5xyyPq0hY1e8u1fXBAode/UXMMsn+Zrajd8M+tS2Y7XXCZgqBKL3renOy5BAmJgtqHS/XTzTk57jJCxqk/uD5RVMsX2hVywLX5fh/hVdELMkghTVciDYHR2mH2jiyFg2uDfyhtC2cDNs42QR5WLNIV0kGkYgjfzsek7IOhDSkXke4IaylhZTA0Moy4Kt+DVNPp0MzAv4tQK0BEnx27mN4cqSq9zpY+Y=|tkp:Bk9SR5bNibf0ZQ

 

[panasonicvac]

Their central vac power units are assembled in Canada by Trovac Industries who are the makers of CycloVac and several brands they eventually bought out like Beam, Cana-Vac, Hayden, etc. Speaking of Hayden, the Simplicity Summit/Riccar 2400 uses the exact same Panasonic power nozzle as the SuperPack in both ivory and grey. The hoses, at least for the last 10+ years, are made by Platiflex in Mexico. Everything else they get from their canisters as their attachments. If I had to get a Riccar today, I'd get one of their central vacs. The only change I'd do is to swap the electric powernozzle brushroll from a two row to three rows like on the Immaculate/1800 canisters. It's interesting as I prefer the three row brushroll on the powernozzles but I prefer the two roll brushroll on their tandem air uprights.