Recreating/repairing vintage sateen bags
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aeoliandave
Well-known member
Jim, the 541 (probably all Hoover bags of a certain time span) bag is a fairly straightforward pattern of 4 pieces seamed together, as you have discovered. Sewn & assembled in stages as the factory Gals did should produce a fair and convincing copy.
I was fortunate while in Minneapolis in November to accompany Fred & Robert when they picked up a fine original condition machine. My excitement was also that I would be able to examine and measure the bag at my leisure.
Back at the house we took the filled bag to the workshop and carefully vacuumed it out and cleaned it.
I then laid it out flat in various positions, photographing and recording accurate measurements along the way, with the determined idea that I would - WILL - produce a copy in ivory Duvteen of the correct weight.
Sketches were drawn with the intent of drafting my own pattern. Working at a Theatre with it's own in-house Costume Department I have access to materials and in fact about 10 years ago made myself a black Duvteen raglan sleeve spring jacket to recreate my favorite jacket I had as a 12 year old. The scraps were salvaged from costumes made for a production of Hamlet. So I know the exact material is still available (although perhaps not from a standard Mall fabric Store).
Anyway, Fred magically produced a book full of Hoover Factory Photographs (I think he said he got if from John Lucia many years ago (?) ).
I took two quick photos of the pages that show the pattern pieces being cut out with minimum fabric waste and the fabric being examined for flaws (pinholes). Passing this examination I expect the pattern was then placed in a silkscreen frame for the printing. And off to the sewing room we go...
Basically a contoured bag tube reinforced at the bottom with two leaf shaped lining inserts, with the bag top an oval disc, all secured and supported by lengths of four-layer 1/2" straps made up from the extra cloth around the pattern pieces. These are 1.25" strips of whatever length along the straight grain, folded upon themselves, then folded again and stitched along both margins for a strong 1/4" belt, inserted in the bag seams before sewing, looped and sized for the location. Sometimes the metal hooks were placed before sewing or added afterward.
Taken altogether there is more than enough information to faithfully re-create the bag, supposing one can also silk-screen - or hand letter - the Hoover Logo.
Series of photos to follow...
I was fortunate while in Minneapolis in November to accompany Fred & Robert when they picked up a fine original condition machine. My excitement was also that I would be able to examine and measure the bag at my leisure.
Back at the house we took the filled bag to the workshop and carefully vacuumed it out and cleaned it.
I then laid it out flat in various positions, photographing and recording accurate measurements along the way, with the determined idea that I would - WILL - produce a copy in ivory Duvteen of the correct weight.
Sketches were drawn with the intent of drafting my own pattern. Working at a Theatre with it's own in-house Costume Department I have access to materials and in fact about 10 years ago made myself a black Duvteen raglan sleeve spring jacket to recreate my favorite jacket I had as a 12 year old. The scraps were salvaged from costumes made for a production of Hamlet. So I know the exact material is still available (although perhaps not from a standard Mall fabric Store).
Anyway, Fred magically produced a book full of Hoover Factory Photographs (I think he said he got if from John Lucia many years ago (?) ).
I took two quick photos of the pages that show the pattern pieces being cut out with minimum fabric waste and the fabric being examined for flaws (pinholes). Passing this examination I expect the pattern was then placed in a silkscreen frame for the printing. And off to the sewing room we go...
Basically a contoured bag tube reinforced at the bottom with two leaf shaped lining inserts, with the bag top an oval disc, all secured and supported by lengths of four-layer 1/2" straps made up from the extra cloth around the pattern pieces. These are 1.25" strips of whatever length along the straight grain, folded upon themselves, then folded again and stitched along both margins for a strong 1/4" belt, inserted in the bag seams before sewing, looped and sized for the location. Sometimes the metal hooks were placed before sewing or added afterward.
Taken altogether there is more than enough information to faithfully re-create the bag, supposing one can also silk-screen - or hand letter - the Hoover Logo.
Series of photos to follow...
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Examining the cut patterns
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Bag front - date stamped April 1924.
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Bag back with central spine seam.
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Bag from the side.
The lower opening to the bag has a piece of hemp rope sewn into the seam as reinforcement. It can be a separate piece of piping trim.
The lower opening to the bag has a piece of hemp rope sewn into the seam as reinforcement. It can be a separate piece of piping trim.
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Seaming inside the bag. Nothing fancy, the leaf panels are simply double-stitched as the double weave nature of Duveteen/sateen discourages fraying.
Robert explains the string flexible weave of this material up above.
The oval shape of the top 'drum-head' shows as I folded it in half to make the bag body lay flat. It also shows the two support straps where they are captured during the sewing of the top piece. Again, nothing fancy or 'finished' off like couture tailoring.
Note: no side dart seams on this one. The reinforcement leaf shapes extend from the front "V" all the way round to the back seam.
Robert explains the string flexible weave of this material up above.
The oval shape of the top 'drum-head' shows as I folded it in half to make the bag body lay flat. It also shows the two support straps where they are captured during the sewing of the top piece. Again, nothing fancy or 'finished' off like couture tailoring.
Note: no side dart seams on this one. The reinforcement leaf shapes extend from the front "V" all the way round to the back seam.
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Hanger strap detail
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Hanger strap width
You know I will be posting pictures whenever I get around to making a bag or two for my bagless early Hoover coffeecans.
Dave
You know I will be posting pictures whenever I get around to making a bag or two for my bagless early Hoover coffeecans.
Dave
truckerx
New member
Hoover sateen bags
Wonderful photos and information - thank you
Wonderful photos and information - thank you
jimbeckwith
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
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Sateen Bags
Dave - Wow, what great information! My sateen bag is exactly the same configuration as yours...no darts and is dated 3-24. Mine is badly holed/torn through the rear center bottom both the outside and inside layers. I noticed the broken rubber guard in your pictures. Where will you find a new rubber furniture guard similar to the original?
Dave - Wow, what great information! My sateen bag is exactly the same configuration as yours...no darts and is dated 3-24. Mine is badly holed/torn through the rear center bottom both the outside and inside layers. I noticed the broken rubber guard in your pictures. Where will you find a new rubber furniture guard similar to the original?
jimbeckwith
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 83
sateen bags
Dave: These photos of the Hoover bags with the darts cut out...this is how the bag on my Hoover 105 is made...I don't know if this pattern applies to earlier machines like the 102 or N, but it is certainly right for a model 105. By the way, the 541's bag is white under the bag band - not a bright white, but more of a flour-sack or newsprint white with black stitching. This came as a surprise judging by the rest of the bag.
Dave: These photos of the Hoover bags with the darts cut out...this is how the bag on my Hoover 105 is made...I don't know if this pattern applies to earlier machines like the 102 or N, but it is certainly right for a model 105. By the way, the 541's bag is white under the bag band - not a bright white, but more of a flour-sack or newsprint white with black stitching. This came as a surprise judging by the rest of the bag.
aeoliandave
Well-known member
Yes, I refer to the colour as ivory, which is not as yellow as cream.
Interesting that Hoover changed and simplified the bag pattern. Only reason I can come up with is that it saved a few inches of material so they could fit more bags on a given length of cloth? Also sewing up two less darts would have saved milliseconds of factory time.
T'was ever thus since the Science of Time Management reared its ugly head.
cribbed from Jack C's site:
"The sateen bag (1920-25) was chemically-treated with a dust-proof film. Hoover recommended that the bag never be washed, brushed, or even turned inside-out, because this caused damage to the chemical coating. The thin sateen material tended to wear out relatively quickly, and Hoover's Research and Development department was continually engaged in developing bag materials which provided better filtration, and were more durable.
Model 541 (1923) replaced Model 105, and featured a number of improvements over the former model, more durable bag: double-lined at the bottom for greater durability.
Model 543 (1926-29) was essentially Model 541, but fitted with Hoover's new Agitator. It also featured a bag made of the new, more durable 'Ronac' material, supported at the top by the patented bag spreader device."
"Where will you find a new rubber furniture guard similar to the original? "
Fortunately (?), it's Fred's Hoover, not mine. But I have had to replace bumper strips on all manner of machines.
Key word is 'similar'. On a good day you might have a junker that can donate but visit any Auto Parts store like Pep Boys, Walmart, etc.
Perusing the OEM aisles and the FanBoy Custom sections reveals an astounding array of vinyl trim strips that can serve the purpose. The Home Insulation department is a good bet, too. for rubber trims that can be pressed into service.
I WILL get around to making up some bags; I have a 425 and a 541 from Jeff Schroff Sr - hygiene903 - that came with modern replacements - that will benefit from something more 'vintage'.
Say, here's the 425 & 541 now with handles, tossed on the kitchen floor upon my Grand Tour return. Oh look, a yellow-gold hose that will go great on my Haley's Comet - I knew there was a reason I snatched this orphan hose from Chris'...
Btw, you do know about Jack Copp's invaluable HOOVER reference site:
http://www.vintagehoover.com/models105750.htm
Interesting that Hoover changed and simplified the bag pattern. Only reason I can come up with is that it saved a few inches of material so they could fit more bags on a given length of cloth? Also sewing up two less darts would have saved milliseconds of factory time.
T'was ever thus since the Science of Time Management reared its ugly head.
cribbed from Jack C's site:
"The sateen bag (1920-25) was chemically-treated with a dust-proof film. Hoover recommended that the bag never be washed, brushed, or even turned inside-out, because this caused damage to the chemical coating. The thin sateen material tended to wear out relatively quickly, and Hoover's Research and Development department was continually engaged in developing bag materials which provided better filtration, and were more durable.
Model 541 (1923) replaced Model 105, and featured a number of improvements over the former model, more durable bag: double-lined at the bottom for greater durability.
Model 543 (1926-29) was essentially Model 541, but fitted with Hoover's new Agitator. It also featured a bag made of the new, more durable 'Ronac' material, supported at the top by the patented bag spreader device."
"Where will you find a new rubber furniture guard similar to the original? "
Fortunately (?), it's Fred's Hoover, not mine. But I have had to replace bumper strips on all manner of machines.
Key word is 'similar'. On a good day you might have a junker that can donate but visit any Auto Parts store like Pep Boys, Walmart, etc.
Perusing the OEM aisles and the FanBoy Custom sections reveals an astounding array of vinyl trim strips that can serve the purpose. The Home Insulation department is a good bet, too. for rubber trims that can be pressed into service.
I WILL get around to making up some bags; I have a 425 and a 541 from Jeff Schroff Sr - hygiene903 - that came with modern replacements - that will benefit from something more 'vintage'.
Say, here's the 425 & 541 now with handles, tossed on the kitchen floor upon my Grand Tour return. Oh look, a yellow-gold hose that will go great on my Haley's Comet - I knew there was a reason I snatched this orphan hose from Chris'...
Btw, you do know about Jack Copp's invaluable HOOVER reference site:
http://www.vintagehoover.com/models105750.htm
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