Recreating/repairing vintage sateen bags

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jimbeckwith

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Has anyone had experience either repairing or recreating a vintage Hoover sateen bag? I just bought a vintage Hoover 541 on e-bay for $50 (yes, it cost more to ship it than it did to buy it, but it has arrived in good condition thanks to UPS Pack and Ship). It has the original bag, marked 3-24, but is very badly deteriorated through the lower rear reinforced section, and thanks to the scissor-style bag hanger, the top has damage as well but maybe can be repaired. The main body of the bag (with "The HOOVER" graphics) is just fine, though. Suggestions, anyone?
 
sateen bags

I'm excited for you! I've been looking for older Hoover bags forever, but it seems the demand has exceeded the supply. I think I may have seen your Hoover posting on Ebay or one similar to it. Often Ebay photos are cleverly taken at such an angle that it is impossible to determine the overall condition of a bag. In that case, I might request additional photos from the seller.
I have been toying with the idea of attempting to reproduce older Hoover bags like yours for years. Firstly, one would need a bag to use as a pattern. Secondly, the nearly exact material would have to be found. I believe that Hoover boasted that their sateen bags were chemically treated. Thirdly, the Hoover logo would have to be copied then silk-screened on to the bag. The good news is that you now have an accurate pattern to go by.
I don't think there would be any profit in reproducing a limited number of bags for sale. The trouble and expense would most likely exceed what you could sell them for.
It's an interesting idea however. You'd need to disassemble the old bag's stitching then lay out the individual pieces for your pattern. I believe it could certainly be done. I'd be delighted to see the finished product. I have seen some attempts at reproducing these bags, but the reproductions were poorly done, over-sized and not in the least becoming to the machines. Good luck and please keep me posted.
 
Sateen Bag Re-creation

I'm looking into finding someone locally that will use the existing bag as the pattern to create a new one. I know that sateen is made from cotton, but I'm clueless as to what sort of chemical treatment was used originally. Considering that Hoover warned against turning the bag inside-out or brushing it, the chemical treatment might be something as simple as sizing, which is rather fragile. Any ideas for re-creating the graphics? I wonder if there is someone out there who could fabricate an iron-on transfer of some sort? If it was done by silk-screening, who would I go to in order to have such a screen made? The quest to find answers for all of these questions will be an adventure...
 
Silk-Screening:

Custom T-shirts are often done by silk-screening, so if there's a custom T-shirt company in your area, you should be good to go.
 
THAT'S WONDERFUL! I THINK YOU'D NEED TO HAVE THE IMAGE COPIED FULL-SIZE FIRST, MAYBE THROUGH SOME PHOTOGRAPHIC PROCESS. A TEE SHIRT SHOP MIGHT BE THE PERFECT PLACE TO INQUIRE. ALL OF THE ORIGINAL SATEEN BAGS I HAVE SEEN WERE AN OFF-WHITE AND TANISH. WONDERING IF THEY WERE THAT COLOR WHEN NEW OR FROM AGE AND DIRT. I HAVE AN EARLY BLACK&WHITE HOOVER PARTS CATALOG, AMONG OTHER EPHEMERA, THAT SHOWS THE BAGS. I CAN SEND IT TO YOU, IF YOU'D BE INTERESTED. THIS SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING THREAD.
 
There is a product which will bond fabric to fabric...

however, the edges are usually bound with satin stitching. The heat activated adhesive will not permit air to pass through and thus put strain on the rest of the bag, problematic if the bag is an antique.

There have been amazing advances in heat-set fabric decorating technology. Why not have the VCCC digitize the image(s) and then sell them to anyone who wishes to recreate a bag or embellish a garment. Air-Way is out of business. I don't know if TTI has renewed copyrights on all the old Hoover logos.
 
Sateen Bag Re-creation

These are all great ideas. Judging by the bag that I have, its design looks rather complicated to me, (my tailoring experience is limited to sewing on buttons!)with fine stitching in a sort of brown-black color. Graphics appear to be brown-black in color also. The material itself is a very pale tan color - I doubt that it was ever really anything close to white. Reproducing one of these probably won't be a cheap date if it is done well...guess that I'll get to find out, though. Truckrx, that parts catalog sounds neat. Too bad that we can't just order from it!
 
Wish we could order from that catalog. It's actually 541 owner's manual with every replacement part shown and the cost (a la 1920's). I'll e-mail it to you.

BTW - could you honor us with some photos of your project bag?
 
Recreating/repairing sateen bags

Truckerx, I have the 541 manual that you are referring to, but I would be interested to see whether or not yours is earlier or later than mine. I have two manuals for model 105, one earlier and one later. Interestingly, the part numbers are very different from one to the other, but some are the same. That might account for the break in serial numbers on that model. I have an original bag on my early 105, and except for some pinholes, it is in great shape but is very different from the 541's. I will upload pictures of the bag(s) if I ever figure out how. I own a digital camera but I've never uploaded or downloaded anything from it yet...guess I'll have to read the manual and figure out how!
 
When it's all figured out and you have a new reproduction bag, I'd be interested (if affordable) in having one made as well to fit my Hoover Baby model. Baby is totally original except for the bag. Please keep me posted.
 
Sateen is a term often used incorrectly...

it is a weave structure of over four warp threads, under one, over four, under one.

It is available in a variety of colors. Most sites do not specify weights. There can be a huge difference in the thickness of the fabric and denseness of the weave. I would advise getting a sample first before ordering.

Next, the fabric MUST be treated as it will be during any silkscreen, lithograph, or heat decal process to avoid uneven shrinking and/or discoloration. Let me be absolutely clear: any chemical the fabric will be exposed to must be applied to the entire piece, and any temperature must be applied to the entire piece to avoid both shrinkage and discoloration.
 
Recreating/repairing sateen bags

Trebor-
Thanks for that bit of information. Any ideas what Hoover (or anyone else) used to "chemically treat" their bags to make them "dustproof"?
 
My guess would be...

that the bags were treated with the same substance that the old-fashion blue-gray flannel dust cloths were treated with so they would grab and hold dust. They were sometimes referred to as "oiled" dusters and had a chemical smell to them. It had to be a very, very thin liquid, almost like water. It would be of the same era. But I am not certain if the painting/silk screening was done first or after. The oil, however thin would not evaporate like water, but instead would cause the fibers to swell and remain tightly together, while allowing air to pass through. Would the screening process adhere with the oil in the fiber? Anything changing the character of the fabric would have to be done first, I would think. The instructions always warned against washing the outer cloth bags. I wonder if the lettering could be done with stencils and a Tjanting needle. The needle has a small reservoir of hot liquid wax, and is used to outline or draw a design. It can be removed with a hot iron and paper towel. If the wax was used on the back to keep the paint from going all the way through the fabric, and then outline the lettering on front, then treat the fabric, then paint the lettering, then remove the wax. The lettering would have clean fabric to grip, but not soak through. Due to wicking, the small outline of wax on the front would fill in with the dust proofing chemical after the wax was removed. I think something like lemon oil (which does not really contain lemons) or lamp oil (deodorized kerosene, which can be purchased or made. Purchased is made commercially with sulfuric acid, but it can be made at home by dissolving 1 part parafin to two parts kerosene, making it nearly odorless. I am pretty certain this is how the oiled dust cloths were made.
 
Anthony - that Hoover bag on your 612 looks good. Care to share the process? Did you use an original bag for a pattern, and how was the lettering applied?
Getting lots of good tips.
 
homemade bag

Hi again the 612 bag is made from heavy duty calico that i bought at the local market i then dyed it brown in the washingmachine it was then hung out to dry naturally i then ironed it . The bag on the machine was one of those grey replacement things with vacuum cleaner printed on it i unpicked it ironed it flat and used it as a template then it was out with the Singer which incidentaly is around the same age as the vacuum cleaner . the top opening of the bag has strips of an old tupperware container fitted to make it fold in the correct places what you cant see is on the intake end of the bag inside i made a cloth tube i then attached it to the intake opening when the machine is running the tube inflates allowing dirt to enter the bag when switched off the tube collapses stopping the dirt from falling back into the fan chamber the folds are stitched into place making sure the bag always collapses back into its correct shape. The bag isnt correct because at the time i hadnt seen an origional but it will do for now the lettering was simply cut out of a strip of sticky back plastic i then cut out very carefully each letter stuck it on and then used gold spray paint about 5 coats and that was it i wish i had taken more photos regards Tony

anthony++4-10-2012-15-06-28.jpg
 
homemade bag

this machine is getting on a bit now and the paper bags are getting hard to find so i made this one as well it works extremely well the machine is Goblin scoot it gets lots of use cleaning the familys dirty cars so it soon gets full but now its so easy to empty and every now and again i bung the bag in the washingmachine to freshen it up

anthony++4-10-2012-15-27-59.jpg
 
Jim, the 541 (probably all Hoover bags of a certain time span) bag is a fairly straightforward pattern of 4 pieces seamed together, as you have discovered. Sewn & assembled in stages as the factory Gals did should produce a fair and convincing copy.

I was fortunate while in Minneapolis in November to accompany Fred & Robert when they picked up a fine original condition machine. My excitement was also that I would be able to examine and measure the bag at my leisure.
Back at the house we took the filled bag to the workshop and carefully vacuumed it out and cleaned it.
I then laid it out flat in various positions, photographing and recording accurate measurements along the way, with the determined idea that I would - WILL - produce a copy in ivory Duvteen of the correct weight.
Sketches were drawn with the intent of drafting my own pattern. Working at a Theatre with it's own in-house Costume Department I have access to materials and in fact about 10 years ago made myself a black Duvteen raglan sleeve spring jacket to recreate my favorite jacket I had as a 12 year old. The scraps were salvaged from costumes made for a production of Hamlet. So I know the exact material is still available (although perhaps not from a standard Mall fabric Store).

Anyway, Fred magically produced a book full of Hoover Factory Photographs (I think he said he got if from John Lucia many years ago (?) ).

I took two quick photos of the pages that show the pattern pieces being cut out with minimum fabric waste and the fabric being examined for flaws (pinholes). Passing this examination I expect the pattern was then placed in a silkscreen frame for the printing. And off to the sewing room we go...

Basically a contoured bag tube reinforced at the bottom with two leaf shaped lining inserts, with the bag top an oval disc, all secured and supported by lengths of four-layer 1/2" straps made up from the extra cloth around the pattern pieces. These are 1.25" strips of whatever length along the straight grain, folded upon themselves, then folded again and stitched along both margins for a strong 1/4" belt, inserted in the bag seams before sewing, looped and sized for the location. Sometimes the metal hooks were placed before sewing or added afterward.

Taken altogether there is more than enough information to faithfully re-create the bag, supposing one can also silk-screen - or hand letter - the Hoover Logo.

Series of photos to follow...

aeoliandave++4-10-2012-21-09-56.jpg
 
Seaming inside the bag. Nothing fancy, the leaf panels are simply double-stitched as the double weave nature of Duveteen/sateen discourages fraying.

Robert explains the string flexible weave of this material up above.

The oval shape of the top 'drum-head' shows as I folded it in half to make the bag body lay flat. It also shows the two support straps where they are captured during the sewing of the top piece. Again, nothing fancy or 'finished' off like couture tailoring.

Note: no side dart seams on this one. The reinforcement leaf shapes extend from the front "V" all the way round to the back seam.

aeoliandave++4-10-2012-21-21-34.jpg
 

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