Rainbow vs Sebo/Miele

[dylanmc]

I am not a "collector", but I have had a strong interest in vacuums from a very early age. I would say I have a deeper knowledge of vacuums than the typical consumer, but I (without a doubt) don't know all the ins and outs like the folks on this forum do. I am looking for some (objective) advice when considering my next purchase.
I am a DIE HARD Rainbow fan. Someone in my family has always .... ALWAYS had a Rainbow. My mom's D4 from 1986 just bit the dust last year. I have an E2 Gold model that still works fine and is our primary vacuum. I just have an itch to update/upgrade. I (feel) like the newer model Rainbows aren't as good as the older models. So, if I go with another Rainbow, I'm looking to get a used E2 Platinum or an E2 Black.
HOWEVER, my interest has peaked at the thought of going a different route and investing in either a Miele C3 Marin or a Sebo E3 Premium. There is a lot of discussion on the web comparing the Miele to the Sebo, but I would like to hear people's opinion in regards to one or the other (or both) when compared to a Rainbow E2 Platinum or Black model.
Since I've known Rainbow my entire life, it's hard to think about switching to something else, but in our current state of life (busy work schedules and growing family) something that cleans (and filters) well while requiring less maintenance does seem appealing.
Our home is mostly hardwood flooring with only the non-primary bedrooms having plush carpeting, and I have really bad allergies.
Thoughts?

 

[amtraksebo1997]

Good riddens to the Rainbow, I say

Unless you're an avid collector, I would not recommend a Rainbow (or any water filtration vacuum for that matter) to anybody. They're more hassle for next to no benefit. My dad has a D4 himself, and that machine is by far my least favorite one to use. The wood-paneled nightmare doesn't even filter well, which I thought was the whole point of those types of vacuums. Rainbows were never good machines compared to other machines on the market.

I can't speak much on behalf of Mieles, but I'd definitely recommend a Sebo. They're quiet, decent performing, and can easily be serviced if you know what you're doing. If you want a canister, maybe go for a K3 with an ET-1 head. If you want an upright, go for a Feilx or G1.

 

[dylanmc]

To AmtrakSebo1997

Interesting. I agree, the D4 is not the best performing or easiest to use. I do like my E2 Gold. It cleans well and seems to keep the dust down in the house. I worry about a vacuum that uses a bag starting to get that musty "bag" smell from the dust and dirt just sitting in there. That is the thing I love best about my Rainbow. Once you dump the water and clean the basin, there's no dust/dirt left to develop odors. In your experience, do Sebos develop odors over time? My brother in law has a Miele upright, and you almost have to open the door when you turn it on from the smell of dust. Grant it, he doesn't use it much and he has a dog. We are a pet-free, smoke free home.
Also, what makes you recommend the K3 over the E3?

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[kirbyman65]

Personally

I have an E2 and it works alright. I agree with AmtrakSebo1997, the k3 with a power head would be your best bet. As for the musty bag smell you mention, you can buy vacuum bag scent beads. I have one in my hoover elite and I never get that musty bag smell. Heres the link.
-Jack

https://www.sebo.us/accessories/90687AM/VBS

 

[dysonman1]

Both Miele and Sebo are overpriced in the US, they are far more reasonable in Europe. Repair parts for Miele can be outrageously expensive.
Disposable bags for Miele are quite expensive per bag, there are non-genuine Miele bags that work just as well for much less. Miele vacuums are very sensitive to bag alignment, many bags come adrift and ruin the motors (ask me how I know - I have many photos).

There are many brands of good vacuums that use Hepa disposable bags and are of very good quality - for much less.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

dylanmc

Mine dad's D4 is especially horrible, as it's one of the ones that has a completely separate hose for the power nozzle that you can't use with the attachments, which begs the question as to why it even has an on-board tool caddy. If I were to get another Rainbow if I so desired, it would probably be an E2.

Also, there was a time where nobody at our old house would let me use any of my other machines because they "smelled bad", and the Rainbow was the only one that somehow didn't. Like yeah, I get that it can be annoying, but the smell goes away after like less than an hour. Just suck it up (no pun intended). I'd only worry about the smell if I suspected the machine wasn't filtering well (to be fair I was running cheap paper bags in my machines back then, and not super great about upkeep on them, but still).

As for why I recommended the K3 over the D4, it was mainly because I think the K3 has a bigger bag capacity, as it uses the same bags as the X and G series machines, but that doesn't mean the D4 is a bad machine by any means. Though, my experience is mainly with Sebo uprights, but I've got no reason to believe that they're any less good than those.

 

[dylanmc]

dysonman1

While I agree there are less-expensive options, I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for". As I said earlier, my mom's Rainbow D4 from '86 just died. There's not a "problem" with my E2 Gold - I just want something less time-consuming without sacrificing quality and cleaning performance. While I've always had a Rainbow, I've also owned nearly every other brand: Hoover, Eureka, Bissell, Shark, and yes ... even Dyson. They all crapped out in a short amount of time. The only other non-Rainbow I've owned that didn't disappoint was my Kirby Avalir. The only reason I sold it was because when we built our new house, we didn't have enough carpet to justify the Kirby taking up so much room in the closet. Plus, even with tech drive, the thing KILLED MY BACK. It did clean exceptionally well, though.
All that to say, I don't want to buy a vacuum that isn't going to last and be less quality than what I've already got. Rainbows (however controversial) last forever with the proper maintenance and models like mine (the E2) seem to be built well.

 

[dylanmc]

AmtrakSebo1997

Same as my mom's D4. Old style with the cord held to the non-electric hose by plastic rings. She upgraded to a SE PN2 hose and power nozzle. The K3 is appealing from a price perspective; however, I don't like that the attachments seem like an afterthought. Like, why should I have to connect the upholstery tool to the end of the crevice tool? Hmmm ...
The E3 seems to be a good middle ground.
Regardless of which Sebo I go with, if I get one, I will have to upgrade the hard floor brush to a more premium version. It comes with the same standard, cheap looking floor brush like mother in law's Eureka-made Electrolux Oxygen came with. I have too much hard floor to not have a really good floor tool, as that is what I'll mostly be cleaning. Honestly, that's what draws me to the Miele because of the parquet twister. The Miele just seems more expensive without justification. I priced it out, and if I bought from Sebo direct online, I could get a E3 with upgraded hard floor tool, and extra motorized turbo tool and still be under the cost of a Miele Marin. Lots to consider.

 

[panasonicvac]

Definitely the E3 Premium, that is in my humble opinion the best portable vacuum on the market today. It's like the most perfect canister ever made. The K3 is also a good choice but the E3 has some improvements that were addressed over the K3 so I think it's worth the extra. Only thing I do like about the K3 is they have an optional HEPA filter, everything else I like the E3 more. The bare floor brushes they come with are pretty good, of course the optional parquet brushes SEBO offers are better especially with alot of barefloors. I'd recommend you take them out on a test drive from your local dealer. And if you're set on buying a SEBO, buy it from a dealer. Because if you buy it from a dealer, you'll get an extended warranty. The standard is 5 years on the parts, 5 years on the labor, and 7 years on the motor if you buy it online. If you buy it from a dealer, 10 years on the parts and motor, and 7 years on the labor. Mieles are excellent too, only things I will say that I like about Miele more are the performance and filtration. But everything else, I like SEBO better. If I were to recommend a Miele, the C1 Classic Home Care Powerline would be my choice. I don't think it's worth the extra on the Marin in my opinion especially if you want something that'll last for a long time.

 

[dylanmc]

panasonicvac

Thanks so much for the feedback!
Would you say there is enough difference in filtration to make you pick Miele over Sebo? Also, our carpet in the bedrooms is very thick. IS there enough difference between the power nozzles to make one lean one way or another? If I got a Miele, I would have to have either a SEB 228 or 236 for as dense as my carpet is. How do those compare to the ET-1 on the Sebo as far as performance goes?

 

[panasonicvac]

Honestly, both are great filtration wise. Miele does have a slight edge cause their bags are like the best that I've seen, and if you upgrade to a HEPA AirClean exhaust filter, you're guaranteed to trap 99.99% of dust. But as what Tom mentioned, the bags are expensive and so are the filters unlike SEBO which are more reasonable. So for that reason I don't believe Mieles are warranted to pick over a SEBO but I'd rather buy Miele bags and filters over buying a new Rainbow vacuum which is ridiculously expensive even the parts are honestly more expensive than Miele. However when it comes to thicker pile carpeting, that I'd say would be worth considering a Miele over a SEBO. SEBO powerheads does do a good job but Mieles would clean circles around them. Miele's powerheads are by far the most powerful that I've used, either the 228 or 236 would be great for thicker carpeting. I'd recommend you test drive them out at a local dealer to see which one you'd like the best.

 

[dylanmc]

panasonicvac

Again, thanks so much for the feedback!
There's so much a person has to consider to make sure they'll be getting (as close) to perfect for their specific cleaning needs - especially at the price point of any machine mentioned.

 

[panasonicvac]

One thing to note if you're set on a Miele, I'd recommend buying one from the red Home Care line. Those are only sold through dealers but they have an extended warranty for up to 5 years. The rest are 1-3 years. That's one of the other reasons why I like SEBO more cause they offer a longer warranty. Another thing to note about SEBO, only the onyx (black) models like these are available through dealers. I took this photo from my last vacuum store that I used to work at.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

dylanmc

Glad to know we shared the same kind of suffering. :]

Seriously though, who at Rexair thought that using two separate hoses was a good idea?? I guess somebody in Cadillac, Michigan was a sadist.

Also, you could absolutely use a different bare floor tool with your Sebo. There's the Wessel Werk Parquet Twister tool, which I myself have for my Nacecare Henry, and it works amazingly, or Sebo's parquet tool, which is also very good.

 

[dysonman1]

dylanmc

Price and Quality do not go hand in hand. Canister vacuums should make the chore of using the above-the-floor attachments very easy. The ones that do not just get cursed every time I have to use the dusting brush. Twenty years ago, I sold Sebo. Among other brands. I never was "sold" on them, they were just for industrial users. I couldn't imagine actually using a sebo canister as my only vacuum. There were two models, a huge one and a slightly less huge one. I seem to remember the bags went in the bottom. And the hose connection was off-set. But they did not seem like higher quality machines than other brands, and when I discovered there were double in price in the US as compared to the rest of the world, I stopped selling them.

No one EVER bought a second package of bags for a Sebo when I was actively selling them, and no one has ever bought a package since. This is my 43rd year in business. I think people become discouraged with Sebos.

 

[dylanmc]

dysonman1

Interesting.
I called some dealers close to my area yesterday. One, in particular, sold both Miele and Sebo. When I told him what I was looking for and why, he recommended Sebo hands down.
In all honesty, I don't know that I can commit to using a bagged vacuum as my primary vacuum after using water my entire life. THE selling point for me for Rainbows is that the dust and dirt isn't sitting in the closet waiting to be blown thru again next week. Both myself and my wife are terribly put off by the "vacuum smell". I've never seen or heard of a Rainbow having "the smell".
I am still heavily considering all options, though.

 

[rainbowd4c]

Rainbow is a different experience for everyone. Not everyone loves their Rainbow. Or some hate them then grow to love them or get one and get rid of it. I have had my D4C since 1997. It's dates tamped 1987. It's still my daily driver and I wouldn't change anything about it. All I have ever had to replace on it were the hoses. This model still has the external power cord for the power nozzle. Again I have had nothing but a positive experience with this model. I have no reason to upgrade on this mostly because the newer models have more to go wrong.

Rainbow like Kirby is not for everyone.

 

[bisonian]

Re: Miele

I have two Miele canisters, a Flamenco II and a Solaris Electro Plus. Both are 20 or so years old and running just fine. I particularly love how quiet they are relative to other vacs, especially the Solaris.

I have hardwood floors, a dog and three cats. Neither machine has a "vacuum smell," despite being my frequent daily drivers.

Tip: if you do go for Miele, get the Parquet Twister floor brush. In my experience, it beats the regular floor tool.

 

[panasonicvac]

Rainbow definitely can't please everybody. When I was a kid, I thought they were shop vacs for inside the house. The very first time I've seen a demonstration on a Rainbow was when I saw a YouTube of comparing the E2 Gold to the silver Miele Capricorn just showing that Rainbow "doesn't" trap the dust unlike Miele which it did. And if you look at other videos, it clearly shows that Rainbows are humidifiers. All of my Rainbows have dust inside them. Even after servicing my E2 completely and no matter how often I change the water out especially filling it at the correct level, dust still got inside and escaped from the motor. So that's one of the reasons why Rainbows aren't my favorite, I'd feel dirty after using one. But, they are good vacuums at the end of the day. My favorite is the D4C, I own two myself. And the best model in my opinion is the E2 (single speed) which I also own. I feel alot cleaner using either a SEBO or Miele. You should know Dylan that the SEBO K3 is one of the only few canisters ever in existence that does all of the filtering before it gets to the motor, they offer a HEPA filter as their pre motor filter.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

PanasonicVac

They basically are, they're wood-paneled, overpriced Shop Vacs that are much more of a pain in the you know what to use than a normal Shop Vac.


I'd say water filtration vacuums are a complete scam. They're often advertised as being extremely well-filtering, when oftentimes that couldn't be further from the truth. So basically, you're getting a machine that is more hassle than a bagged vacuum, only for it to blow dust back into the air. On top of that, they're sold at premium prices. At least with a Kirby if you bought it new, you'd be getting a decent machine, but here you're getting a waste of time and money. Speaking of which, it's also additional money on your water bill, so there's that. The few and minute benefits of them are outweighed by their laundry list of cons.

Anyways, does anybody happen to have a DeLorean around here so I can stop T. Russ Hill from incorporating water into the Rexair design?

 

[bagintheback]

I think you should stick with Rainbow. The move to HEPA bags from what sounds like a lifetime of water filtration will be significant. Depending on how much dirt you have you might have a dirty bag sitting in your closet for months. That doesn't bother me much personally, but you noted you liked the freshness of a Rainbow. Sebo and Miele bags are also expensive and will feel like an added expense.

Sebo makes excellent vacuums, but as Dysonman1 noted they are significantly overpriced here. I gifted my grandparents a Sebo X4 a few years ago and so far it hasn't developed any major odors. It kinda just smells like The House. Their old Hoover smelt a similar way. I haven't owned a Rainbow for a significant amount of time to know if they start having The House smell too.

Go with what you love! If you're a Rainbow family there's no major reasons to switch horses.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

BagintheBack

Vacuum smells aren't something I think should be worried about unless your machine filters badly (ironically, pre-E2 Rainbows don't filter well and have next to no odors). I've kind of just accepted that even the best filtering machines of mine are just going to have them, and that the smells go away after an hour or so after vacuuming. If it drives you that crazy, maybe try using an air freshener of some kind (I.E. Febreze products, scent tablets, etc.). Me personally, I use Febreze or a small sprinkle of carpet powder (keyword being "small").

 

[dylanmc]

bagintheback

Thanks for the feedback! I do love my Rainbow - it's just not very time-friendly to use. I agree that the switch to bags would take some getting used to. I'm still considering all options. I watched a video from Performance Reviews on YouTube yesterday where he reviewed a Rainbow E2 Black (what I would upgrade to), and his review didn't sell me. I personally don't like the newer style power nozzles. I think the one that came with the E2 single speed through the E2 Platinum work better. I could be mistaken, but that's just what I "think". I never understood the need for side spinning brushes, and I HATE the first version of the power head with spinning brushes that ALSO had a center belt. Like, why am I only going to get (what feels like) 6 inches of cleaning per pass? ... NAH.
Anyway.
I do have one "collectible" that I don't use much that is a bagged machine. I have a Hoover Elite 200, and like you said, it just kinda smells like "the house".
I think since we don't have pets, and don't plan on getting another indoor dog anytime soon, the odor wouldn't be as much of a problem as I think I'm making it out to be - still an adjustment from water, though.

 

[panasonicvac]

I don't know what your budget is or what your house blue prints are but if you're looking for something that won't stink up the place at all, the best vacuum in my humble opinion is a central vac. With having a unit in the garage or basement and venting it outside, you won't smell anything at all. Also depending on the model, they can be more powerful than either SEBO or Miele. And with the bags so huge, you'd only need to change it out like once a year. This powerhead from OVO is good for starters but they can be later upgraded down the road with a 228. Anyways, just a suggestion.

https://www.amazon.com/OVO-Powerful...ocphy=9029718&hvtargid=pla-1889892848292&th=1

 

[rainbowd4c]

Rainbow now user friendly.

@ DylanMC. You do have a little bit of a point about Rainbow not being user friendly. But you just have to get in a routine. Once a month I give mine a really good cleaning (water pan, separator and underside). But just for daily I have it down to a science where it maybe takes me all of five minutes at best. I tend just dump the water down the toilet rinse it out really good and flip it upside down on the sink to dry overnight.

My Kirby on the other hand. It was a gift from my mother in law. That I feel like i need a Masters in Engineering to use.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

RainbowD4C

Kirbys are really not that hard to use. I daily drove my Ultimate G for a long time with next to no frustrations. The key is to read the owners manual, and/or watch the instructional video for it (which Kirby themselves have uploaded the ones for the Heritage II-Sentria ii on Youtube). The most important things to understand are how to properly adjust the height,how to properly use Tech Drive, how to remove the nozzle and/or attach the hose, how to change the bag and belt, and how to adjust the brushroll endcap height. Anything else can be looked up in the manual or VHS tape.

 

[mark40511]

Personally, I prefer having a HEPA bagged vacuum AND a Rainbow...which is what I have now... I use the HEPA bagged more but I still use my rainbow..

Also - I agree, I watch Kirby enthusiast on youtube (I think he's from Australia) He goes over all about how to use them... It really doesn't look that bad... I like how you can get a super long hose for the Kirby and take the front off/ connect the hose and clean everywhere.. Which is what I do with my current vacuums...About 3 years after I got my rainbow I discovered they sold a separate 14 foot non-electric hose and it changed EVERYTHING... After having used a vacuum with a long hose like that to clean basically anywhere, I wasn't aware they made those types of hoses for OTHER vacuums as well...so I bought one for my HEPA bagged upright.. I turns pretty much any vacuum into a central vacuum basically rendering whether to choose an upright or canister useless because the extension hose/tools allow both an upright or canister to basically do the SAME thing... aside from maybe a little more portability (vacuuming under beds with the power brush) etc. But all I do in that case is just run the floor brush under the bed to get dust bunnies

 

[panasonicvac]

That's great to see Rexair also offered an extension hose for the E2 models. I've only seen this once on another thread from a D4C. In addition, Fred serviced his Rainbow in his dishwasher including the motor which I'm sure you remember Mark. If I was using a Rainbow or a Kirby as a daily driver, that's how it should be serviced yearly. But, I'd rather have a machine that only gets tuned up once in a while like SEBO or anything that filters the dust before it gets to the motor.

https://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17494