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Nick, I deleted your post. That was not approriate for this thread, if you have a problem with the way Fred runs this site then send him an email. Posting your beef publically to add more uncessary drama to this thread wont be tolerated.

Fred N. we believe a parent paid for him, but we will do more research tonight to determine that.
 
OK

I did not take Evan's posts as disrespect of other members but that he was just trying to explain himself.  I do think he was disrespectful in the latest post saying Pi.....  With that I think everyone should review the posting rules.  I did that before I made my initial post.  For one reason or another this got out of hand.  As most of you know, I am mainly a member of the club for Scott but it is more than that now....good friends.  Agreed Evan and all of us should check our spelling and grammar when we post.  I know I make mistakes but not on purpose.  Along with that I think we need to calm down, think before we post, and move on.  Thanks, Barb
 
There are several things going on here ...

1. Lazy is lazy is lazy. I realize we're not typing up resolutions for the United Nations, but correct grammar is correct grammar, and should be used in ALL communication.

2. As a professional writer, I can tell you that being a "good writer" is not the same thing at all as using correct grammar, spelling, syntax, and punctuation. Those are the BASE MINIMUM skills. Being a good WRITER is taking it to a whole different level by using those basic skills to artfully and masterfully convey complex ideas and narratives. It's like defending someone's inability to add 1+1 by arguing that they weren't "blessed" to be a good actuary or statistician. Basic arithmetic -- addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division -- are BASE MINIMUM skills just to be a contributing member of society, regardless of occupation or profession. As are basic spelling, grammar, and punctuation skills.

3. Not to attack Evan, but the word "tomorrow" is a second grade vocabulary word. It is a word heard and read EVERY SINGLE DAY by nearly every adult not in a coma (and quite a few IN comas, most likely). No 13-year-old should see the word "tomaro" and think it's the correct spelling.

4. I'm troubled by the increased dependence upon "spellcheck" (which was Evan's defense) by the younger generations. Just as I'm increasingly worried about the younger generation not even learning how to write -- cursive or printing, for that matter -- with a pen or pencil at all. Their technology-obsessed parents think its so cute that their children go immediately from drooling in a sippy cup to punching out words on a keyboard. It is a dangerous dependence on electronics that will leave these people in a major bind if and when the electricity, for whatever reason, goes out for any extended period of time. Our entire modern infrastructure is more delicate than most people care to think about; we're just one atmospheric bomb detonation away from the nation's entire power grid getting fried, and the power going off -- for YEARS. Knowing how to intuitively spell correctly and communicate via pen and paper will be paramount. At the very least, barring any disaster that takes our electricity away, handing over these very basic human skills to computers makes us as a human society collectively weaker.

5. All THAT being said, we don't know Evan's situation (could be dyslexic, etc.), and correction should be given gently and good-naturedly. People -- TEENAGERS in particular -- don't respond well to condescension. Any correction should be done in the spirit of helping that person better themselves, rather than one feeling superior to another.

6. He was so excited about getting his first Fantom, and just wanted to share that excitement with the rest of us -- people who GET it. Don't break that spirit.

7. Let's give Evan a collective hug and welcome him back.
 
I have to say

I am shocked at how many of the adults on here are acting childish. I am 23, so I am old enough to know how to act as an adult, yet still young enough to know how it feels to deal with adults disregarding everything you say, because your the kid.

As has been stated before, he could have been dyslexic. Or maybe he just made a typo. I am having to be very careful writing this, because I now know at the slightest mistake, I will have someone jump on me, however, I am sure I am still making some. The kid was excited about getting his first Fantom vacuum, and you guys turned his excitement and desire to share it with us into a personal attack on him just because of a few spelling and gramatical errors. SHAME ON YOU!

Furthermore, I saw nothing disrespectful in what Evan said! What, was he disrespectful because he didn't roll over and let you guys walk all over him? Was he disrespectful because he stood up for himself? What I think adults play the, "We are the adult, your the child" card too often. Does that mean that you can attack the kid, beat him down, over a SIMPLE mistake, in essence, be disrespectful to him, and then when he get upset about it they pull the "Oh your being disrespectful" card.

That is not to say a kid who mouths off to his parents or elders when they are in the right should get away with it, but when you attack someone, as was done on this forum, you are misguided if you think that your not going to have the kid fight back.
 
Furthermore, I saw nothing disrespectful in what Evan said! What, was he disrespectful because he didn't roll over and let you guys walk all over him? Was he disrespectful because he stood up for himself? What I think adults play the, "We are the adult, your the child" card too often. Does that mean that you can attack the kid, beat him down, over a SIMPLE mistake, in essence, be disrespectful to him, and then when he get upset about it they pull the "Oh your being disrespectful" card.

I couldn't disagree with you more Michael, that child's posting was disrespectful. A teacher wouldn't stand to be talked to like that and neither will we. While you might think a fresh child is cute, those of us who have to run this website absolutely do not. Many do not realize this but there is a big push in the Members Only Forum to no longer allow anyone who is either under 18 or not a paid in full member to post on Vacuumland any longer. While I personally disagree with that stance, whatever the board decides on we will abide by. At the same, time those of us who run this site can try to find some middle ground here between those who want to make Vacuumland adult only, and those who do not. Fred and I have to update the rules because of a different incident last week, while we are at it we will add a second new rule along the lines of members who are under 18 years old must treat any adult member who post on this site with respect or they will be banned. This might help the alleviate the situation at least temporarily.

Had Evan's response be more along the lines of "I'm sorry, my grammar and spelling are not very good, but I will try a bit harder" this whole situation would have been avoided and all would be well now.

Once the changes to the rules have been made we will make a new post in Off-Topic.
 
I meant no disrespect in post number 13.
I was just a little upset at the way Fred corrected me.

And after much thought, I have decided I will take a break from vacuumland for a month or two. I hope that when I come back, people will have learned to read something and move on without commenting on my spelling and grammar unless it is totally unreadable.

I got some of that from Morgans reply in the thread labeled "How do YOU access vacuum land?".

http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?19863
 
"It is pissing me off and it probably pisses others off when you do it to them." is not something I would tolerate out of a 13 year old. That is what was disrespectful. I made that quite clear in my posting above, while I personally don't care about the grammar I do care about how children respond to adults, it was the way I was raised. If you don't like that, too bad, need I remind you that we are the ones who call the shots on this site.

It is clear to me that nothing has been learned in this thread, by Evan or anyone else. It is done now, we will update the rules. We've had our final say on this.
 
There is much history with Evan that many seem to have forgotten over the past 12 months, that finally pushed Big Fred's buttons.


 


When you are a paid member another feature is the ability to click on anyone's post count and read every post they ever made. Reviewing those Beaverton posts tonight I fully support Big Fred's action (which if you read it over is actually delivered with good nature until the child smart-mouthed).


For senior members like myself, Robert and Little Fred's responses seem to be our last bastion of common sense at a Board guidance and leadership level.


It'll be a sad day when we give in to a child bullying the adults.


As much as I'd like to see posting privileges restricted to over 18, a compromise may be to begin with age 16 with limited posting at least.


 


In closing, it is convenient for some to read only what one wants to hear, ignoring the other posts besides #13. No apology at all would have been better than this clumsy crafty attempt to manipulate member opinion.


 


Dave
 

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