Panasonic arrived today

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

David,
Thanks as I could not find any information about using it on end in the instruction book.

Jamie,
That is what is so great about Robert having this web site. We can each share and see what is available.
I enjoy both the old and the new and almost all the different brands.
This machine is like using a vacuum from 20 years ago. Nice and quiet and simple to use. I have bought several high end canisters in the last few years that have been real junk or very difficult to use.

 

[mark40511]

I just remembered something else

I think in 2004, it was 229 dollars? Can't remember exactly....Used almost everyday for 2 years....which I guess is possibly the equivalent of ten years for a "Normal" person? Not sure....For 189 dollars.....used once per week which I would think MOST people would do, it could possibly last a long time if used correctly...but someone like me would only get a couple of years out of it....Maybe 3 max......There are videos on YOUTUBE of people ordering the part and changing the connections.....so it must be a pretty common problem. I actually did this to one of my Kenmores but it wasn't easy (for me) because those little plastic pieces are so fragile when taking them apart and trying to put them back together. You have to be so careful and I ended up breaking something. This is a video of a guy repairing the HANDLE part, not the lower part.

Out of the three Kenmore's I had.......I remember on ONE of them, I had a problem in ADDITION to the connections.......The cord that runs from inside the PN up to the neck of the nozzle started to FRAY....It's never really touched so I guess it's from the motion of using the PN over time. You could actually see the wire inside the cord itself. I put tape around it...

If the bag starts to smell before it needs changing, just put some Rainbow D&A on a cotton ball and suck it into the bag..When I do this with my Lux, there is no smell. That Green D&A must inhibit bacterial growth inside the bag.

 

[durango159]

Vacuum Scents

Most vacuums get a smell over time. You are removing dirt from a rug along with germs, bacteria and other things. Then that dirt festers in a dark, humid, warm closet inside that machine with more dirt being added on a regular basis. Darkness, moisture and warmth create the perfect elements for the growing of germs, dust mites and other things. The smell of vacuums come from the festering of dirt and germs. Unless you were changing the water like in a Rainbow, or had an Activated Charcoal cone filter like on a FilterQueen then any vacuum can smell. Replacing a bag generally eliminates this along with maintaining a clean pre-motor filter, which us collectors know very much about but many consumers ignore!! Kenmore HEPA bags will help reduce this odor along with scented tablets that you can get from Sears, Home Depot or manufacturers like Oreck, Electrolux, FilterQueen or other manufacturers scents.

I highly recommend the Micro Clean tablets that you can get from Home Depot, they are cheaper than Sears and smell very close if not exactly like the Hoover Tablets of years ago. I wish Hoover still produced packages of their tablets. I also miss the Vacuum Puffs scented beads that I could find years ago. That company available from many dollar stores came in Fresh Outdoor, Lemon, Georgia Peach, Vanilla, Apple Cinnamon, Pine and a few others. They were the best!!!!! Really wish they were still available.

 

[durango159]

Forgot

The Hoover Spirit, Dimension 1000, Futura, PowerMax, and 1st generation Windtunnel canisters all had a terrific bare floor brush. The Kenmore does have bristles down the middle similar to those. However the Hoover was much better because bristles were much softer for better dusting, and also had bristles along either side. The bristles on the sides help keep the tool well balanced and straight at a set height off the floor. The Kenmore tool primarily has very short stiff bristles along the middle. By lacking the edge bristles the tool has a large tendency to lean forward on the forward stroke thereby scraping the front plastic edge along the floor. Additionally the bristles are very stiff in my opinion and while being good with hair and crumbs they don't remove fine dust or sand well from a floor. That's why I suggest a generic horsehair brush. Just my personal suggestion, I've clean houses for years and have used many vacuums. The Kenmore bare floor brush leaves more dirt for the mop to find and makes the job harder in my experience when compared to many others.

 

[suckolux]

I loved those Hoover tablets, will have to try the micro clean I guess.

 

[ultimatevacman]

I agree with Jamie, it's a very nice looking vacuum! It's about time we get some good cylinder vacuums with PNs over here. They never seem to be very popular though.

 

[turbo500]

They never seem to be very popular though

That's largely due to shag carpeting never being particularly popular in the UK and in recent years, the increase in popularity in laminate and wood floors. The UK market tends to flit between uprights OR straight suction cylinders mostly.

I agree with others, this is certainly an attractive looking cleaner. That wooden brushroll looks great too. Hope you're happy with it.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Power nozzles

I think the air driven turbine heads are more reliable and cheaper to buy than the electric nozzles. Why buy a canister with an electric nozzle anyway, when we can now buy small and light uprights that weigh only 5kg that do just as good a job. I can never understand why people would buy a canister vac for use on longer pile carpets - surely that's what uprights were invented for. Canisters as a general rule are better for short pile carpets or hard floors, and turbine heads have now largely replaced power nozzles in the UK. The last model that Miele produced for the UK with an electric nozzle was the Revolution, but these are now discontinued. AEG produce the Ultra One with a power nozzle but reports I have read about it were not good regards it reliability.

 

[turbo500]

A cylinder with a powernozzle seems to be the preference for a lot of our US friends, and I can see why with so many homes in the US having such a variety of floor types. I mean, one floor of a house could have so many different floor types. It's not like here in the UK where everyone has either low-medium pile carpet (except in the kitchen and bathroom) or laminate flooring. A friend of mine in Tenesse has:

Living room - deep pile carpet
Dining room - solid wood
Hallway - Parquet
Kitchen and utility - tile
Study - low pile carpet
Stairs - solid wood with a carpet runner up the middle

Bare in mind, that's just 1 floor if his house. A cylinder with a powerhead ensures that all the surfaces are cleaned to the best possible standard without having to switch machines.

Air driven turbobrushes are fine, but they tend to slow down on thicker carepts and don't groom the pile or get between the carpet fibres to effectively remove embedded grit like a powernozzle does.

Cylinder vacuums with a PN are better compared to uprights with brush controls, but even then you can't switch to a floorhead better suited to a particular floortype if needed, unless you own a Sebo Felix.

And it's not just the US. It's also important to note that in mainland Europe, very few people have upright vacuums. I imagine this is largely due to the popularity of bare floors in hotter climates where an upright would be useless, but even in countries like France and The Netherlands where the climate is more similar to the UK, uprights are not popular. Infact, all of my friends and relatives on the continent have cylinder vacuums.

Cylinders with a PN are still widely sold across Europe, again aimed at homes with a variety of floor types. I was in a department store in Amsterdam last month and there wasn't 1 upright on sale, but all the high end models had powernozzles.

 

[turbo500]

And it's not just the US...

It's also important to note that in mainland Europe, very few people have upright vacuums. I imagine this is largely due to the popularity of bare floors in hotter climates where an upright would be useless, but even in countries like France and The Netherlands where the climate is more similar to the UK, uprights are not popular. Infact, all of my friends and relatives on the continent have cylinder vacuums.

Cylinders with a PN are still widely sold across Europe, again aimed at homes with a variety of floor types. I was in a department store in Amsterdam last month and there wasn't 1 upright on sale, but all the high end models had powernozzles.

 

[turbo500]

It seems the cylinder cleaners with a PN are the machine of choice for a lot of our US friends, and it's easy to see why. Homes in the US, from what I've seen, tend to have such a variety of floortypes that a cylinder with a powernozzle is the best way to effectively clean all the different surfaces without having to change machine.

For example, a friend of mine in Tennesse has:

Living Room - deep pile carpet
Dining room - solid wood with rug in the middle
Hallway - Parquet
Kitchen & utility room - tile
Study - low pile carpet
Stairs - solid wood with a carpet runner up the middle

Bare in mind, that is just 1 floor of his house. It's not like in the UK where a lot of homes have 1 type of flooring throughout. Because the floorhead can be changed so easilly from powernozzle to straight suction, the PN cylinder is the obvious solution for homes with a variety of different floortypes.

The other alternative is an upright with brush controls, but even then they often have a habbit of just pushing larger particles around and not actually sucking them up. And unless one owns a Sebo Felix, the floorhead cannot be changed to a more suitable one between floortypes.

Air driven turbobrushes are ok, but they do have a habbit of slowing down on contact with carpet and they simply can't groom a carpet or get between the fibres to remove embedded grit as well as a powernozzle.

As for reliability, I imagine there is little to no reliability difference between a PN cylinder and an upright. Dyson motorhead cleaners are not more reliable/unreliable than any other Dyson cleaner. And the Sebo Felix is essentially a cylinder with a PN stood upright - no complaints on reliability there either. Infact, I've heard of more Turbobrush failures due to larger particles being sucked up by the user and shattering/jamming the turbines.

And it's not just the US. It's also important to note that in mainland Europe, very few people have upright vacuums. I imagine this is largely due to the popularity of bare floors in hotter climates where an upright would be useless, but even in countries like France and The Netherlands where the climate is more similar to the UK, uprights are not popular. Infact, all of my friends and relatives on the continent have cylinder vacuums.

Cylinders with a PN are still widely sold across Europe, again aimed at homes with a variety of floor types. I was in a department store in Amsterdam last month and there wasn't 1 upright on sale, but all the high end models had powernozzles.

 

[suckolux]

In fact, in my small home there are 3 floor types and 3 carpet types, so that rings true here. As for trouble, have only had to replace a breaker on my 30 year old Lux, but the brushroll was worn down by then too,that had to be ten years ago.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

I agree with you Rob on the fact that when you store the dirt it has the perfect place to develop odors. It just hit me one day that I don't store or save old dirty clothes or dirty dishes and I don't SAVE bags of garbage in the house so if I am using a machine to remove the dirt, why not remove it from the house and clean the container. Hence the Rainbow made perfect sense to me. It was well worth the extra few minutes to dump the filth and rise the container.
I can even clean inside of the hose of dirt and odors in seconds.
I see what you are saying about the tables but you are really only masking the problem with another odor. These bags, filters and tables all add up to quiet a lot of cost over time. many of the "good" smelling additives will give a person with asthma problems.
Quite different from the old days when housewives always emptied their Hoover bags every time before putting the machine away for storage.
I have found that the newer plastic bag less machines tend to absorb the smell into the plastic itself over time.
Then we use a high speed electric motor to force air through the stored filth and wonder why we have a smelly house and machine. It is really nasty practice when you think about it.

I also agree with you on the floor brush that came with the machine. It is fine for loose crumbs on the kitchen floor but I could still see a dusty layer on the hardwood after use.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

Mark,
I agree with you about the Panasonic vs our Electrolux. It pains me to say there are a few things I like better about the Panasonic.
I like the smaller hand gripe and the ability to shut the power on/off and brush control right under my thumb compared to our Lux with the control on the machine itself and on the power nozzle.
Also prefer the suction relief right under the thumb Vs the Lux with a screw type under the hose handle.

 

[suckolux]

Yes on the grip!!! and the suction control. With the condition of my hands anymore I can't even open or close the suction on the Lux screw type anymore.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

Mark,
I am also finding the Panasonic power nozzle is doing a better job on my thick pile carpeting in the bedroom. It may be because you can adjust the height of the power nozzle or maybe just a different design.
Also appreciate that the handle will stand by itself and the machine is easy to make 180 turn around with the big wheels located at the rear of the machine compared to our Lux's smaller wheels which are located further up from the end of the machine's body.
The hose swivel helps with the turn around too.
I would guess the Lux would last longer but then it costs 4 times as much and these are BOTH the entry level machines. Both very good machines but the Panasonic is easier to use and I love the long cord and step on cord rewind.
It is a joy to use. Time will tell how much I still like it.

 

[mark40511]

Masking the problem

I'm not sure what's in those tablets......but "if" it's something to kill bacteria, that wouldn't be masking. To me masking is Spraying air freshener where a wet dog has been. Now, it smells like air freshener AND a wet dog.

Someone on here mentioned this product a while back.......so I will include a link. It's a small bottle of solution that kills odor. I'm sure it kills the bacteria as well. I've been meaning to buy some to try in the vacuum bag to see if it works.

http://www.amazon.com/Wrap-On-Compa...6?ie=UTF8&qid=1385158476&sr=8-6&keywords=odor

 

[suckolux]

Could not find the Micro Clean tablets at my local Home Depot, nor could they.

 

[mark40511]

William -

Where did you buy this?

Someone once told me that if you buy the Panasonic INSTEAD of the Kenmore, that some key areas are made more robustly than the Kenmore.......but I'm not sure if that's true. It looks EXACTLY the same. Oddly enough, those connection do fit nice and snug so you would "THINK" that you wouldn't have a problem for a long time.....I saw this for 189.98 free shipping @ walmart.com.... Most other places on the web this same vacuum is as much as 300 to even 400 dollars!

And what made you want to buy this out of curiosity?

 

[durango159]

The scent tablets from Home Depot are about $6 for 8 tablets. I use 1 tablet per bag and usually break it into 2 or 3 pieces. I find that brand and the Sears Home Care brand are very pleasant smelling and not overpowering. It's not a Good Cop/ Bad cop situation when the bag is full, usually it's about neutral. Normally by the time a bag smells putrid without a scent, it's about 2/3 full anyways so it's time to go and refresh your vacuums efficiency. The tablets are nice, because it's a whole large tablet and not a fine powder like some other scents that can clog pores. Large tablet can't go through exhaust so all you're doing is smelling and not inhaling harmful fumes or powders.

The pre-motor filter is part number: CF-1 Generally these are sold as a 2 pack for about $6 I've had no problem washing these filters myself as well. I'd say depending on use they should be washed or changed quarterly.

The post motor HEPA filter part number: EF-2 Generally sells for around $13. I believe this one lasts about 9 months.

There are several threads available discussing Canister vs. Upright and Turbo head vs. Electric power head. Therefore I'm not going to beat this horse too hard but, here's my quick thoughts.

Years ago many thought that uprights were the carpet warriors and that canisters domain should be bare floors only. Electric power nozzles have come quite a long way. There are many power head canisters that perform better than many uprights. Vice versa there are some uprights that do better than some canisters. Much of it comes down to user preference and home design. Personally about 90% of my home is carpet. Canisters are my preference. I'm more than happy with cleaning ability with the machines that I've chosen. The maneuverability, quiet noise, ability to shut off brush roll, high performance air flow for deep cleaning carpets and for attachment use with out bothering with a stretch hose are all things I love. Additionally a fitting a 1.25" metal wand around furnishings and tight spaces along with getting under beds and other furniture is FANTASTIC!!!!

The air driven turbo nozzles look very nice, and sound cool and perhaps some work better than others. Much of the problem lies that they steal much of the machines airflow in-order to power turbine for brush roll. The electic power nozzles allow both motors to perform full power. Just a couple weeks ago I did a Filter Queen demo for a central vac household with a Turbo Cat Zoom head that was in great shape. Brush roll bristles looked great and were clean. The Turbocat head sounded great and left nice groom marks on the rug. I ran it over an area for 100 passes. Then I ran the FilterQueen for a couple swipes. The amount of dust, sand, pet hair and lint found by the FilterQueen over the same spot where the TurboCat Zoom had just gone over 100 times with very good air flow from the central vac was unbelievable!!! I really thought using the Turbo head with powerful central vac had done a good job. I was COMPLETELY amazed what the FilterQueen found on several dirt pads from the same area.

Attached link is a youtube video with a turbo head vs. electric power head.

Happy vacuuming to all!!

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

Mark,
I got mine from Home Depot. They have JUST changed the price to over $300.00 when I checked yesterday as another collector friend was going to order one at the $189.00 price.

I ONLY bought one because after reading over 200 reviews from owners who had the Sears machines, they seemed to all LIKE TO USE machines so well. I found so many of the owners of the high end Sears machines had the very same problem with the electrical connections.
I noticed a big difference between the Panasonic reviews and the Sears reviews.
I would not have paid $300.00 for this type machine after my experience with the Dyson DC23, Hoover Anniversary and Miele which were each a lot more money. All had serious things I did not like about the machine such as the short cord, short hose, baby attachments, turbine nozzles and nasty dirt bins to empty. I sold them all.
I was just curious about the Panasonic/Sears machines and the price was right for less than $200.00 and Home Depot has a return policy of 90 days so if it has reliability problems within 90 days it will go back.

So far I really like the performance of the machine. This may change very quick it the suction and air flow drop off and the bag starts smelling.

I like getting the dirt out of the house when I am finished. This won't replace the Rainbow for sure as I use the Rainbowjet to clean the hardwood and kitchen floors besides the dry vacuuming.
Rob

 

[tolivac]

Now I know that HD sells Panasonic vacuums-the HD place in Greenville closed several years ago-the building still sits empty-Costco was supposed to move in-so far--no Costco.Would give Sams Club down the street a little competition.Hope the Panasonic works out-Its a sarace between the Panasonic and the Rainbow!

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic has arrived

Rex,
That Panasonic is just a wonderful machine to use. Do you remember the very first time you used a Hoover 28, Hoover 63, Hoover Convertible , Automatic Electrolux E, Electrolux G, Air-Way 88 you fell in love with the way the machine sounded and they such a pleasure to use. That is the same thing for me when I used the Panasonic.

So many of the new machines like my Dyson DC 23, Miele, Hoover Anniversary, Hoover Windtunnel- I would try so hard to like to use but in the end there just to many things I really disliked about their use. Not picking on these cleaners or the brands, just giving some examples.

There is no contest for me, the Rainbow will win out because of the sanitation and removing the filth from the house every time and the machine is put away clean.
When I saw that white hepa filter come out of my Rainbow after over 2 years use, I knew it was doing a much better filtering job.
Some of my most expensive canisters had dirt on their hepa filter after only a few uses.
I will say there is a night and day difference between the new Rainbow and my last SE in ease of use too.

I really like the shape of the dusting brush on the Panasonic. I would like to buy the better grade with the real horsehair brush at some point.
Just a fun and easy machine to use.

I appreciate all the input from the posters on the forum, it makes trying a new machine fun.

 

[eurekaprince]

Rob...as someone previuosly mentioned, don't forget that you can add an electrically-powered Kenmore Powermate Junior to your new Panasonic. It will connect to your hose handle with no problem!

Not sure how much these cost at Sears though......

 

[eurekaprince]

Oops...*previously

 

[williamr1248]

panasonic arrived

Update:
I opened the bag compartment today to find a fine layer of dust covering the whole interior of the compartment. It shows very plain as the interior is a dark burgundy color.
Very disappointed as I loved the machine. I did check and the bag was installed correctly and was using the correct Hepa cloth bag. I also checked the pre motor filter and there was dirt on it too.
I have heard about this problem from other owners of this machine but was hoping it was only the Sears models that had this problem.
I can except this condition on a machine like my Hoover Spirit that was built 23 years ago and used the old single layer paper bags but not on a new machine today.
I think it may have been leaking at the bag collar which is cardboard.

It is such a shame because the machine was a joy to use but not for someone with allergies and asthma.
So it's back to the Rainbow for me.

 

[suckolux]

I would guess bag collar, have seen it happen, not always

 

[mark40511]

I hate that bag collar system

It's like it barely makes good contact with the hose connection going into the unit... I think that's where the leaks are. Not the bags themselves. It needs redesigned.

 

[jade_angel]

It might be possible to MacGyver some kind of extension on there so that the seal mates up tighter. I had that same issue with a Kenmore Progressive (which AFAICT is pretty much this same machine, with a few differences), and I thought I might have been able to fix it, but I gave up on the machine when I moved

 

[tolivac]

Rob:Yes any of those vacuums you mentioned are nice-VINTAGE ones instead of many of the junky plastiones made today.
Its too bad you discovered the leaking problem in that new Panasonic-I had high hopes for that machine giving you satisfaction-instead it turned out to be a dsappointment.Such a shame.As you say-back to your standby that hasn't let you down-Your Rainbow.Would be neat if Panasonic or someone made a horsehair dust brush like the Sears/Panasonic ones.If you had a lot to clean they were better than the Asian-Europeon "Doll Dust" brushes.I use the "doll" ones for Hi-fi and electronic gear and the car.They get into small places well.