Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners

[jmurray01]

"<a name="start_22844.258915">Well you didn't offend me, rather you painted yourself as been work-shy."</a>


 


I see what you mean, but that couldn't be further from the truth.


 


For the last 5 months I have been working 40 hours a week at an Estate Agency in a training position, which will be progressing to a Modern Apprenticeship in January and thereafter (hopefully) employment.  Additionally I am also attending college for a computing course.  I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have been given this opportunity, but the work is very hard.



 


As you can hopefully see I am not work-shy, but rather, to be blunt, a bit of a snob.  As I said I don't look down on people who are cleaners or suchlike, in fact I think highly of them, but personally I wouldn't like to be seen doing such a job.


 


I know that last paragraph sounds awful but it's the truth.  What people think of me for it is their prerogative.

 

[vintagerepairer]

I wouldn't like to be seen doing such a job.

And this is the very reason why there is such a demand for domestic workers. All one hears is that jobs do not exist because foreign workers came here and took them. There would not have been that opportunity had a good deal of natives not had this sense of "pride" which you speak of and refused to do the jobs which the immigrants are largely doing.

You are right, is IS someone's perogative to think what they will of someone, which is why I know you won't mind me thinking far more of a person who goes out and cleans lavatories for a living than I do someone who chooses to stay at home and breed, living a life on welfare hand-outs, as is so often the case in this country now.

My mother did several jobs from assembling goods in factories, through to receptionist, and via all that to cleaning and housekeeping. Her pride then was in looking after her family, not what job people saw her doing. How things change.

 

[nycwriter]

It's a matter of economics for most of us ...

It's not that we're "snobs" because we wouldn't be caught dead cleaning other people's houses.

It's that our skills and labor are usually much more valuable elsewhere in the economy.

I clean like no one else; I'm extremely thorough to the point where my friends joke that one could perform surgery on my bathroom floor.

I have yet to be offered, however, any house cleaning position that compensates me as well as writing and producing network television shows, or media consulting for Fortunte 500 companies.

For the vast majority of Americans (and Britons, I assume), it simply doesn't pay to clean homes. For unskilled laborers, though -- particularly for those who don't speak English and are most likely illegal and need to be paid under the table and who will work for just about ANY amount of cash -- it's an ideal position. It ends up being a win-win for both employer and employee: Employee is given a job he or she can easily do with no training required, earning money (which he or she would not be allowed to do in any legitimate situation, being in the country illegally). The employer gets his house cleaned without having to adhere to those pesky federal minimum wage laws (or ANY employment laws, for that matter).

THAT is why illegals are cleaning our homes, and not Americans.

 

[sebo_fan]

Don't assume, we're not all the same.

I actually don't know of any immigrant workers in a cleaning business - they're all British workers here. I have worked part time in my younger years as a cleaner both with a small self employed group and a much larger corporation. That aside from being an educator in primary and secondary schools that takes first priority.

Contract cleaning companies of course may well yield more expensive costs but for self employed private cleaners, a lot of them are British, middle aged women who just want to keep busy and keep a sideline job open. My neighbour down the street has three jobs to keep her five children in good clothing. She works for 4 days out of 5 in an office doing IT management and a part time cleaner as well as an accountant for another company. Her husband has a rather successful self employed business of cleaning windows - and cleans windows using pressure washer machines with extended lances. Gone are the days of climbing up a ladder where he is concerned.

I can't of course speak for everyone in the UK, but of the cleaners I know, they're all British/Scottish, Irish, English and not necessarily in that order. One of my best chums is a grandmother of 4 young children, 60 years of age and looks 40. The cleaning keeps her fit and she enjoys her work and the pride and satisfaction that it gives her - I wish I could say that as a high school tutor, I enjoy my job but sadly I am beginning to think that I will never find a full time permanent position in Scotland. I intend to move back down to England where i once studied, where there are more jobs and better prospects.

Legally speaking, you don't have to be a immigrant worker or otherwise to not declare tax, in any regard to working "under the table." The UK government don't make it easy but at the same time there's a handy loop hole here that allows anyone to work freely without paying tax unless they are working for more than 16 hours a week. Most of the cleaners I know who do declare tax are working more than 16 but I am aware of some who aren't declaring tax and working minimal wage. It is hard therefore to always be honest, because even if you do declare how many hours you are working over those hours, other taxes are then taken off, for example if you get a state pension from retirement.

 

[nycwriter]

Wait ...

"She works for 4 days out of 5 in an office doing IT management and a part time cleaner as well as an accountant for another company. Her husband has a rather successful self employed business of cleaning windows - and cleans windows using pressure washer machines with extended lances."

She's an IT professional.

Her husband owns his own "rather successful" window-cleaning business.

And she needs to clean houses to clothe her children?

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[vintagerepairer]

"illegals"

What an eloquent term. Only not. In the UK there is a suggestion the some people have come here and are working under the minimum wage. The proof of this is not always readily available to the people who believe this goes on. In addition, it is not every employer or end-user who wishes the work to be done by such individuals.

What is more than apparent is that whole generations of white British natives are now living a life of welfare hand-outs, having as many children as the fancy takes them, refusing to take any job because they feel they are far better off financially and morally by taking welfare.

I am not suggesting for a moment that anyone in a well-paid job should suddenly become a cleaner, nor did I say anywhere that it was renown for paying dividends. What I said was that the idea that when one needs money and finds oneself out of work, the concept of becoming a cleaner is very often beneath people. Some of the comments here are proving this point without the need for me to expand further.

The UK has a national minimum wage, whether it be for cleaning or any other job. Therefore I cannot see why it matters if one was to work four hours a day in a shop serving people, or four hours cleaning that same building. Indeed to compare the two, one would have to look far and wide for a retail job which paid much more than minimum wage, whereas in cleaning I know -often due to the politics of contracting out these services and to ensure staff do not leave- that a rate higher than minimum wage is a real possibility. Add to this the people like my lady who comes to me, who started her own business from nothing and was turning work down within a space of 6 months as she was so busy. And I don't mind telling you that she must easily be earning double the minimum wage based on what she charges, more so if one considers the tips that the likes of myself are paying her, proving that it is perfectly possible to make a living from it, if one has a good business head.

The whole idea that one should take any job as opposed to no job & welfare handouts is becoming truly lost in the UK. It may be laziness, it may be this "pride" which is being spoken of. Whatever it is, it is helping to ruin our economy.

 

[vintagerepairer]

"
She's an IT professional.

Her husband owns his own "rather successful" window-cleaning business.

And she needs to clean houses to clothe her children?

What's wrong with this picture? "

From where I am sat, nothing at all is wrong. I applaud anyone who goes out to graft to pay for their family. However, from the point of view of a lot of UK society, quite a lot of it is incorrect. If you can't feed your family, you blame everyone else for it, claim social welfare, and put your name down to appear on a TV documentary.

 

[spiraclean]

Trouble with the cleaning industry is that it isn't exciting, glamorous or sexy in any way, and therefore doesn't get a fraction of the recognition and respect it deserves. When you think about it, cleaners are absolutely essential; does anyone ever really stop to think what our workplaces, shops, hospitals and schools would look like without them? The easy answer to that would be "that isn't my problem", but I beg to differ if they were to suddenly stop turning up for their shifts. We'd all be surrounded by filth and asking why somebody doesn't do something about it.

And yet, cleaners are often regarded as being only one step above the office cat. The lowest paid, lowest status role in any organisation. There is a certain stigma attached to the role, mainly because many people see it as poorly paid menial work for those who have no other career options available to them. It's no wonder people aren't exactly falling over themselves to apply for such jobs, and I can't really criticise them for that. It's hard enough keeping staff let alone finding new, but I suspect this would be far less of an issue if cleaning was viewed more as a "proper" job with pay and conditions to match.

The only way to make cleaning pay is to go for volume (i.e. contract cleaners) or target the upper end of the market (private cleaning for well-off clients who don't care what it costs as long as they don't have to concern themselves with the nitty gritty). Even then you have to be the one in charge to actually make money, the further down the ladder you go the smaller your cut will be.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well said spiraclean, very well said indeed. However, a job is still a job and it comes to something when someone is too proud to clean but sees no shame in sitting at home living off hand-outs.

 

[spiraclean]

VR,

Given the choice of working retail or cleaning for the same money, I know which I'd rather do. When cleaning you are generally left alone to get on with your work, and are rarely put in a position where you have to deal with with crazy people. The same cannot be said for retail.

 

[sebo_fan]

Also, although some members on here feel that a cleaning job doesn't require brains or training, that isn't quite true. I had to do a course on cleaning chemicals and what not to combine to cause caustic effects! Its all right if all you're getting paid to do is hoover an office, but when you have to operate the wet machines and clean toilets as well as handle heavy chemicals, without the necessary training it is possible to get it wrong.

 

[spiraclean]

VR,

Re: post 259196, I absolutely agree with you. Twice I've been made redundant in the past 10 years, but on both occasions, claiming dole was not an option. Having paid contributions all my working life I was perfectly entitled to sign on, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. The humiliation of attending the Jobcentre each fortnight to be questioned would absolutely break me.

First time it happened, I took a part time job cleaning at a local school while searching for another job. Hated every single minute of it, but it got me out of the house and meant I was paying my own bills. Second time, I went it alone and started cleaning houses. Rather like your own cleaning lady, I started with nothing but eventually it morphed into a full time occupation and I was able to charge fees equivalent to £18-£20 per hour. Some of my professional friends weren't even earning that much, yet they still had to deal with office politics and bringing home a briefcase full of work each night. I didn't! Not bad for something that was originally only intended to keep my head above water.

You have to find work, it won't come looking for you. Sometimes there isn't any to be had in your field of expertise. That means you either need to work at something else instead, go out there and create your own employment, or sign onto the rock 'n' roll. IN THAT ORDER.

 

[tolivac]

Truthfully-cleaning IS A SKILL-the person doing it has to be trained on the equipment,methods and chemicals to do it right,and safely to him and others.The most difficult job is for cleaners--the dirt that gets tracked into homes and buildings is DIFFICULT to remove!!

 

[nycwriter]

"From where I am sat, nothing at all is wrong."

If you're an IT professional and your husband owns a "successful" business, you're clearly not handling your money properly if you need to clean toilets just to clothe your children.

 

[spiraclean]

Sebofan,

Again, I absolutely agree. There is this notion that working a cleaning job means just randomly flicking a duster and doing a bit of vacuuming while eavesdropping on the client's conversations in the next room. If you were to go solely by what was portrayed on TV, that would indeed be true.

The reality is very different, even more so if you are getting into hard floor or carpet care, and the use of all the associated chemicals and machinery. Untrained amateurs not only won't have a clue what they're doing, they could very easily end up doing more harm than good and causing expensive damage.

If anyone doubts this, try using a floor buffer with no prior experience and then get back to us on that one. Or wet cleaning a Belgian wilton carpet and watching as it shrinks before your eyes and pops off the gripper rods. Just because in theory anyone "can" clean doesn't mean they "should".

 

[nycwriter]

Well ...

"There is this notion that working a cleaning job means just randomly flicking a duster and doing a bit of vacuuming while eavesdropping on the client's conversations in the next room. If you were to go solely by what was portrayed on TV, that would indeed be true."

Here in New York, that is INDEED true.

"Untrained amateurs not only won't have a clue what they're doing, they could very easily end up doing more harm than good and causing expensive damage."

And again, here in New York, they DO. All the time. It's one of the difficulties in this city of finding even marginally competent help.

 

[vintagerepairer]

"If you're an IT professional and your husband owns a "successful" business, you're clearly not handling your money properly if you need to clean toilets just to clothe your children."

Well that is their business, and anyway, none of us know her actual circumstances. Point is, she could have supplemented her income with benefit fraud or petty theft. She didn't. She was not too "proud" to take on a cleaning job. My own father earned a good wage and as we found out upon his death, had squirreled money away into all sorts of investments, property, and bank accounts. When he passed away, he left my mother a small fortune, yet it meant so little to her, given that he had penny-pinched all of his life. She worked before I was born, cleaned part-time for years whilst I was a child, then went back to work full-time when I was 13. She worked way past retirement age, and had she not done so, she wouldn't have had a penny of her own. I hope this gives an insight into why somebody has got out there and taken on extra work. I would never -and never have- looked down upon or judged anyone for doing any honest job. It is not my place to do so, nor is it anyone else's.

 

[kirbysthebest]

I have cleaned for others throughout the years

When I was 11 I used to clean neighbor's houses for pocket money. I had several ladies I vacuumed, dusted, moped for an made $5 a week doing so. It was good money for an 11 year old that also mowed yards, and house sat while neighbors were on vacation.

Later in life, I worked several jobs. I had my "day job" that paid the bills, and I had my contract jobs that I used for extras. Cleaning office buildings was a good job because I could set my schedule anywhere from 6PM to 6AM and could go at my own pace. I quit that job when I started being limited to how long I could be in the building (2 hours) to clean two floors with 40 cubicles and individual offices on each floor/ It was impossible to do a good job (IMO) and vacuum, empty trash, mop break rooms and restrooms in that time frame. I was in a dead run from the minute I punched in the alarm code to enter the building until I punched it to leave. I quit the second week after they timed me. I figured I was contract there was no FLSA involvement, but they were afraid of espionage or something if someone spent too much time in the office.

I do agree with NYWriter, it is not snobbery, but economics; if one can make more at another job, or in my case the money was good but no longer convenient. Then they should do so, if good cleaners are in demand. Then employers have the option of using a service, or upping the antie.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Spiraclean

My lady is a former air hostess. From what she has told me, she was privileged to get a good education, then went on to work on airlines for a good deal of years. By her early 30's she was married and starting a family, eventually going on to have four children. Between each birth, she worked as either a night-worker in shops or as a cleaner on commercial premises. This ended with her working as the cleaner in the sheltered housing complex where I now live. She proved to be such a hit amongst the residents that she was soon cleaning for them too, when her youngest son went to secondary school she finally quit the job she was doing to start her own domestic cleaning business.

This was a good while before I moved in. I had to wait for over a year before she had even the smallest gap in her schedule, during which time I used a much larger organization. I paid a lot for that, and got a lot less than I do now, but they were just one of many, many services I contacted who were all booked up solid.

 

[sebo_fan]

Ty Benny - I completely agree!