Not worth it: Riccar/Simplicity tandem air uprights

[mike811]

Okay so this is a bit rant.
I have seen these been tested on the airflow box and results aren't impressive at all. Now to remind you they that they cost up to 1600$.
So obviously you will get huge performance from these due to the two motor system?
Sadly that's not the case here.
Nozzle airflow with the bypass motor only running is 76 cfm and both motors running 81 cfm. So direct air motor only boosts 5 cfm when it is added to the vacuum.
So my biggest complaint is that did they even test it when it left from the drawing board? There is quite many single suction motor uprights what can do the same and even better than this fancy tandem air vacuum.
Tandem air system doesn't add agitation or anything else. Only thing what it adds is the production cost and complexity of the vacuum.
You are better off with cheaper Riccar/Simplicity. They offer the same airflow and agitation and they cost a lot less. Naturally suction is unaffected by the Tandem air design.
My intention was not to upset anyone. These are raw numbers and they don't lie.
Just choose normal single suction upright and you will have the same or even more performance. If you really want high airflow upright go for the traditional direct air vacuum.

 

[vacfan1982]

Yes bit of a gimmick and over complicated. I wouldn't want to service one!

As you say go for a Kirby if you want maximum airflow and maximum annoyance

My choice would be the Sebo Felix you can pick them up in the UK for £260 what a bargain!

 

[mike811]

I have seen service video of it and indeed it's very complicated
You can get the same performance a lot cheaper. For example I saw US version Sebo Felix in test and it got 81 cfm. That is very good. EU version with 700 watt motor gets 74 cfm and that is still good. 900 watt Vorwerk VK 135 has whopping 100 cfm.
So much better options are available.
Riccar SupraLite would be cool. Similar design Hoover Platinum Lightweight UH30010 pulls 114 cfm!

 

[n0oxy]

definitely go for the Felix

I think the Felix is by far the best upright you can get. It will clean better than any tandom air upright and will probably clean better than a Kirby as well. And it will clean hard floors as well as a canister cleaner.
Mike

 

[mike811]

Yep I love my Felix. I bought it just because of the hype, but oh man was it worth it.
Very versatile for whole home vacuuming and it really cleans carpets very well.
High German quality vacuum is investment for years to come.

 

[electroluxxxx]

I actually have one and I think what makes it effective at all is the stiff brushroll. Other than that, its loud, suction at the hose is weak, and i can hardly feel any air moving at the base when I place my foot in front of it. One of the biggest issues with the tandem air design that I have found is the air flow path, its very narrow and also has a lot of twists and turns in it. As for the hose, it is a small diameter stretch hose that completely robs the main suction motor from having any performance at all.   

 

[dysonman1]

they are such junk. The motor that powers the hose is the same motor as the small simplicity over-the-shoulder vac called the Sport. Tiny little thing. The other motor (with the direct air fan) is fragile as a woman's love. Cheap, cheap, cheap. The cost to the manufacturer for both motors together is little more than $10. Constant circuit board failures as well as hall sensor failures. I worked on a ton of them and hated every single one. I also saw them catch on fire on the assembly line (I worked for ten years at the factory where they were made) when they stopped the brush motor with a towel to test the hall sensor. I remember one, in flames, came flying down the concrete steps from the production floor, with employees holding fire extinguishers putting out the flames. Good times.

 

[vacfan1982]

Holy smoke batman

 

[s2_82]

I came extremely close to buying one and I'm glad I chose not to.
Alex (vacuumdevil) helped me make my mind up, thanks to him telling the truth.

Instead of shelling out $1000 for a radiance, I'll be investing that in my very first Aerus/ electrolux soon

 

[ralph123]

I always thought the tandem machines were too much of a gimmick and a Rube Goldberg design. While you may attain some advantages of both direct air and bypass designs, you also get the disadvantages and a lot more complexity. They should have substantially increased the amount of US made components of the vacuums. Miele ate their lunch with premium uprights in the $500 to $800 range. $1600 for a tandem machine is insanity.

 

[n0oxy]

I also love my Felix

I love my Felix and that is coming from someone who does not like uprights. It's the only upright I plan on getting, but I really like it because it provides the flexibility of a canister cleaner.
I can't believe they sell those tandom air vacuums if they could catch fire, that is a disaster waiting to happen.
One more comment about the Sebo Felix, it's rare that you find a one size fits all product, but if someone is looking for a good upright, I cannot think of any disadvantage of the Felix, unless they insist on a bagless machine which I think is a bad idea anyway because of the issues that bagless cleaners have.
Mike

 

[mike811]

To be honest I am canister person. Sebo Felix is the only upright what I enjoy using as a daily vacuum. It's very versatile and easy to use. Normally I would use canister only but Felix has changed my mind due to the ease of use.

 

[tseg]

My wife is not a vacuum enthusiast. Over the years I've paraded a number of high-end vacuums past her and she has found fault with every one... up until I brought home a Felix one day. Finally a vacuum that impresses her. I love it as well. So much for the complex Simplicity.

 

[tolivac]

Make YOUR OWN tandem air vacuum-I have---Kirby+NSSM1,Kirby or Royal upright +MD Silentmaster.Yes,I do have some Tandem air machines in my collection-sometimes just fun to use even thought they are ineficeint.

 

[blackheart]

I am Curious

How many of you have actually used a tandem air machine? Obviously Tom has, seems Rex has too.

I will agree that they are overly complex there are better ways to achieve the same level of performance.

I've measured my S40P a few times the highest results I've achieved were
1 motor: 84.77 CFM
2 motors: 95.55 CFM
Bag door open (direct air motor only): 98.63 CFM.
Suction Wise I get 80" from the hose. which is pretty average.
I did at one point measure a S30 I think I got about 88 CFM with both motors running.
They have a nozzle area of about 27in² so they'd have a pretty good airflow density of 3.69

If we talk about their carpet cleaning performance, A riccar R40P set a new record (I think) for dirt removal on vacuumwars
While I've not measured it's carpet cleaning performance i feel it's in the top 4. The only machines I'd put above it are like Kirby, metal royals, and Direct air Sanitaires.

I may be in the vast minority here but I feel performance wise they do rather well and perhaps don't deserve the hate they're getting. Granted tacony has changed and I feel the quality control of the company has gone to crap.

 

[vacfan1982]

I did use a Riccar Brilliance once and yes I thought it cleaned quite well.

It wouldn't be my choice though. Sebo and Vorwerk would be my choice for uprights.
I would like to try a Riccar Supralite.

 

[n0oxy]

comparing tandom air and felix

It would be interesting to compare the cleaning performance of a Riccar Tandom air cleaner with the Sebo Felix, I'm pretty sure they would be pretty close.
I also much prefer hose cleaners, whether that is pull around canisters, backpacks or central vacuums. The Felix is really a power nozzle canister in the shape of an upright. I don't plan on getting any other uprights but the Felix is awesome.
Mike

 

[mike811]

Blackheart


95.55 cfm is more what I would expect from this vacuum.
And yes they seems to have very good brushrolls.
I can't deny that I wouldn't want one of these in my collection.

 

[blackheart]

A comparison

That can be done! I've already tested the Felix with sand 77.4% was the result I got after 10 passes.
Here's the data set so far. I did actually test the S40P on a rug where it did fantastically but decided to strike the result after making the decision to use my normal carpeting as I feel it's a better representation of "standard carpeting" It's also odd to use machines like the Felix/D4 and the R10P/Wonder where the same brushroll design is used have such a large performance gap. I think I tested the D4 like 3-4x and that percentage was the best of the batch. The lindhaus needed some work which I was unaware of at the time so it will be re-tested too.