New to forum, Kirby vacuum questions

VacuumLand – Vintage & Modern Vacuum Enthusiasts

Help Support VacuumLand:

Interesting. It makes sense why Kirby would use or want to use such safety features. Too bad the features were not well received and ended up breaking. I got the pictures to my computer so I will attempt to upload them. I do not have the before polishing picture yet so I may get it uploaded tomorrow. The pictures that I do have are two of the vacuum post polishing and one with the attachment sets open to view the contents Sorry in advance if they are blurry, they were taken on a flip phone with a poor camera. I hope that the difference can be seen between the before and after pictures. It is/was pretty significant. It is impressive what it looks like when the oxidation and water spots are taken off. Initially I just used Mother's aluminum polish on a soft rag, but there were some tougher spots where I used #0000 steel wool and Mother's aluminum polish and that worked better for the tough water spots. I still have a little bit to clean up on the em-tor but overall it is way better. It took me several hours to get it how it is know. Thank you for sharing about your vacuum and explaining what they changed and why.

-Sean

seanoliver77-2018110220475105294_1.jpg

seanoliver77-2018110220475105294_2.jpg

seanoliver77-2018110220475105294_3.jpg
 
From one newbie to another,

Welcome Sean! Lurked in the background as a reader for about ten, joined last year. These are some of the nicest and informed people you could ever meet. Very generous with their time and knowledge. I hope to meet them in person at a convention or mini-meet in the future. On your 508 you mentioned that for now you'd like to see if you could get it running and then later take it further. I would say do the easy and obvious test/inspection first. Start with the power cord, borrow a known good one , like the Tradition's cord. Then go down your list. I'll bet those mice have contributed to the problem. They got in to my sisters cabin over the last winter and wreaked havoc on most of the kitchen appliances, toaster, coffee maker, you name it. She is even replacing the stove as they ripped insulation from the oven walls and wiring throughout. So check all the wiring. You mentioned the carbon brushes were of different length. I wonder if one got hung up in the holder or the spring tension was weaker on one than the other. I would also do as Huskyvacs says and get a can of contact cleaner and spray the speed/safety switch and work the button several times with the motor unplugged of course! Even if you aren't going to do anything major now on it, I would definitely go to texaskirbyguys resto sight to gain a whole lot of insight on what's involved. You are in good hands with these people, good luck, enjoy! Billy Clyde
 
Thanks. I do need to look at the 508 closer. I have Christmas break in several weeks so I may try it then. I have looked at it several times and tried to figure it out but haven't been able to make it go. It does not have a cord so I was using an extension cord with an adapter the takes out the ground pin and to make the cord head smaller. I should try to clean up the switch and go from there. If I get some sign of "life" after I try that, meaning a buzz or a whir or it actually runs well. Then I will go through the motor and replace or repack the bearing and put new brushes in. I will probably have to clean the commutator as well. The brushes are probably the first thing that I will do. I hope that the internal components, the armature and the field of the motor are in good shape because those are the most expensive parts to replace. The mice do have me worried. I know they were in the em-tor and bag but do not know about the actual motor. They could have snipped a couple of wires without me knowing and that would cause it to not do anything when I move the switch to the on position. My grandpa did say that he thought something was wrong in the motor. He did not know what. I assume that it was the house vacuum until at least the DS80 came in the late 1960's or early 1970. Then it was used to clean out the grain drill on the farm for several years until it died. I am assuming that my grandpa didn't want to work on it because he wanted and purchased a shopvac after this or just thought the 508 had served well and deserved to be "retired." Where most people would throw it out, my grandpa kept it. I do not know why as, even I will verify that it doesn't work. I hope that the armature and field are at least in usable condition because I want to restore it without spending a whole lot of money on it. It is still just a 70 year old vacuum cleaner. I do think would be cool to work on and make new again but, like any project they become a money pit. It does have the attachments which is a plus. The box is in horrible shape between the water stains and mouse holes. It even has the floor polisher attachment. This 508 was great grandmas and according to my grandpa he remembers her using it and it was loud.
-Sean
 
I have another question. What did the Tradition and attachments cost when new? Is there a published number of how many were produced and sold? I am just curious. I picked up some weatherstrip cement today and will use that on the seal. I could not find Pliobond so this is the next best thing. I also looked up some parts for the 508 and found that some of them are cheaper than I thought. Has anyone ever attempted to build a cord that looks like the factory one? I would just have to buy the right length of cord and the ends that look similar. I just do not know it if is any cheaper than buying an already made one. I should probably mention that I like to do as much of the mechanical work and polishing etc. as I can. Not only is it cheaper but then I get to learn from it and it keeps me busy.

-Sean
 
seanoliver77

Sean,

Here's the notorious blue plastic cover your Tradition's speed switch used to have placed over it. I even saw a red one for the Classic III (but not on the US 120V models, yet). Kirby did this (along with the short-lived design speed switch mounted to inside the headlight cap that was initially used on the very first Traditions) to satisfy the UL double insulated safety laws in order to continue selling the Rug Renovator component.

The 2nd picture shows the symptom the speed switch cover had posed: the cleaner running even without anything attached to the front - which meant the speed switch selector arm was jammed in the down (high speed) position!

~Ben

kirbyclassiciii-2018110319474602225_1.jpg

kirbyclassiciii-2018110319474602225_2.jpg
 
Interesting. It is kind of ironic that something that is supposed to make the vacuum safer actually made it unsafe. How did Kirby initially overlook something like that? Were they not tested enough? Were the features some of those ideas that look great on paper but do not work well in real life? I am glad they remedied it and were able to continue selling the Tradition and other models that followed. Was there actually a problem with water getting into the switches on earlier models or was the UL concerned that it might pose a problem? I can see that it could, I just wonder if it actually did. However, the UL does say what can and can't be sold so it is probably best to just do what they say and fix it. Why did Kirby not go to a design like that of the Heritage II earlier? It would have saved a lot of headaches and problems. I bet it would scare anyone if the machine would run without anything on the front, dangerous as well. Thank you for sharing more about these interesting problems.

-Sean
 
seanoliver77

Sean,

They did redesign the speed switch again for the Heritage I. This time, the actual speed switch (134381 for Heritage I and 134384 for Heritage II/Legend II) was inside the motor unit (what you see on the fan case is just the mechanism that triggers it), so now nothing would go wrong with the motor as much when the Rug Renovator was being used.

You are welcome.

~Ben
 
Thanks. It makes more sense now. I guess I have looked at the switch on the Heritage II and did not think much about it. I do know that the hose off of the G5 does not work on the Heritage II. I tried it and it didn't work. Did they sell less Tradition models due to the issues previously mentioned? Thanks.

-Sean
 
seanoliver77

Sean,

Sort of. The Tradition had one other hurdle: because it was the first Kirby ever to have a disposable bag system, obviously there were problems with it that first time around. The size of the fill tube was too narrow to work efficiently, and the top adapter had an oval shaped opening.

The Heritage I's fill tube was improved, but still had the oval shaped opening on the top adapter; consequently, most users opted to replace that with the Style 3 top adapter (with the circle opening). Until 1983, the Heritage I's fill tube was made of cloth (an unusual trait), and also the rug plate was redesigned (no dividing bars, except the one where the belt is) to promote the cleaning effectiveness of the new double-bristle brush roll. But even the new rug plate proved problematic, since users complained it destroyed their power cords (when ran over with the machine - something you should never, ever do in the first place), and Kirby changed the design of the rug plate (with the missing dividers back in place) in response.

You are right that the G5 hose does not work on anything up to the G4. The fan case gasket used on the G5 through the present Avalir II is much thicker, which eliminates one gasket from the hose coupling.

~Ben[this post was last edited: 11/4/2018-00:09]
 
More interesting information. I guess these issues that were remedied are what made the Heritage II such a great vacuum. I guess every company has had some problems with various models, but most of them learn from it and move on and are able to continue to grow. The cloth fill tube sounds like and interesting feature. Why did they try that? Another way to increase airflow and still utilize the disposable bag? Another thing that was good to fix. I am surprised to see that Kirby didn't design their new brush roll with the current rug plate in mind. Thanks again.

-Sean
 
Now that I have a complete vacuum, I would like to locate one particular attachment for it. Does anyone have or know someone who has a blue shag king attachment? I have heard/read that these are rare and had seen one on ebay, but it had other attachments that I didn't want and they wanted too much for the small collection. thank you everyone for all of your help.

-Sean
 
That listing is a different one than the one I saw. These tools are actually cheaper than the others. The listing that I saw was a blue shag king, miracle head, waxer and a suds-o-gun. The seller wanted $29.00 plus and I was not willing to pay that, especially for attachments that I kind of wanted but at the same time did not need. I only wanted the one attachment. Thank you for finding that link.

-Sean
 
Hello everyone,
I figured I should let you know that I just purchased a Shag King attachment along with parts of a Rug Renovator off of ebay for the Kirby Tradition. It should be here in about two weeks. Thank you all for telling me to check often and wait for other parts.

-Sean
 
It will be cool. I do not necessarily want the other parts, but they my come in handy for something. It was one of those, "I probably will not find this price with free shipping again for a long time if ever" deals. I just hope they get delivered before I go back home for Christmas. I am hoping the Shag King will fluff up the carpet at my house this summer. It is not a full on shag carpet, but it does have a deeper pile. Thank you again for your ebay tips.

-Sean
 
I doubt you'll find a Tradition Shag-King Attachment for sale individually. that's why most of us buy another machine, or attachment set, just for the one or two parts we're missing.

I did try giving away my spare Tradition trim, parts, tools, cloth-bag, polisher... two large boxes of stuff; I mentioned £7.50 (USD 10) postage and never heard from him again!

I guess for some people, Free is not cheap enough?
 

Similar threads

hank
Question About Electrolux Parts Availability
Replies
9
Views
20
repairman
R
bagintheback
"Kirby World" Conventions
Replies
0
Views
43
bagintheback
bagintheback
justjunque
Electrolux HEPA bags
Replies
4
Views
29
dysonman1
dysonman1
human
Discovery Plus Gets a New Lease on Life
Replies
7
Views
145
panasonicvac
panasonicvac
P
Bag Cover/Jacket Sizes & Airflow/Air Watts
Replies
0
Views
17
paul
P

Latest posts

Back
Top