New (sort of) Rainbow

[blackheart]

My E series arrived! It was bought off ebay for about $510 that's including shipping.
It was apparently a store demo model which has been lightly used.
I've only had a little time to play with it but it so far it's pretty cool not a whole lot of airflow to it but the powerhead seems to be a very good cleaner.

 

[electromatik]

Not a whole lot of airflow?? Surprising statement as I thought it had a new motor. I wonder how that affects it's water pick-up ability?

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

Did your Machine come with the new direct drive side belt or the original middle drive belt?

 

[blackheart]

answers

Well when my baird meter is attached it pulls about a .75 which i'm shocked by in a rotho video demo they showed it reading a 4.5 they may have run it empty that may effect it's rating.

As for the nozzle it's the older style center belt model

 

[williamr1248]

New (Sort of) Rainbow

Sure does not sound right. Do you think you have a hose or seal leaking?
Do the fans look clean or maybe it has been used with something that has clogged the hepa filter such as demo products in the vac store?
Maybe something has been done to cause it have less air flow if it was used in a vac store, as a new Rainbow would not be sold in a vac store.

Something not correct if you don't have a lot of air flow with a Rainbow. I might understand it not having as much suction as some other machines but not the air flow. Keep us posted when you get the problem resolved.

I was having a new Miele demonstrated and it had very little suction because when the store owner checked, the machine had a PACKED bag. When he replaced the bag ,the machine was fine.

 

[suckolux]

I would have figured that for a lot of air flow

 

[blackheart]

Heh

I just found out how to get to the filter....and it's filthy it's this weird...rusty color to it the good news is that the motor spins freely. It's now pulling a 2.5 with the filter removed

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

I bet someone on this forum would know what it SHOULD be pulling. You might send Ken Bashford a email and see what it should be pulling. He is who I bought mine from and has been very helpful. Tom Gasko would also be a good source of information about the Rainbow.
Sure makes you wonder what has been done or picked up by the machine. This would make me wonder if damage was done by the original owner and traded in or it happened when it was in the vac store.
I just changed my hepa filter for the first time after 2 years and mine was as white as the new one and I use my Rainbow to clean the garage floor, screened porch, aquamate and Rainbowjet. Mine has not been babied in any way but I do change the water often.

 

[floor-a-matic]

U must change the water often & never pick up "non-wettable" dirt like SheetRock (plasterboard) dust, Love My Carpet (carpet fresh powder) & fireplace ash. Don't vacuum too long with just one filling of water; once the water gets too thick, its time to change the water. U must never store the power unit on top of water basin.

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

Devin,
I wrote someone who has vast experience with Rexair and Rainbows and here what information I got back:
(1) Rainbow has used same brush less Hurricane motor for the last 8 years
(2) All Rainbows in that time frame should have 95 inches of water lift
and 290 air watts (air flow plus suction)

The only causes of less would be:
(1) abuse by original owner (not changing water)
(2) dirty separator
(3) dirty heap filter
He told me a LOT depends on how well the original owner took care of the machine.
The Hurricane motor has NO MOTOR BRUSHS, NO COMMUTATOR to wear out
(4) should have very high air flow and continuous air flow unless abused by original owner.

I hope you can find the problem with your machine. If you have any more questions email me and I will give you the person who has a LOT more experience and knowledge than me.

 

[blackheart]

.

Thank you for your post Rob it is quite informative.
The hepa filter i've emailed Ken Bashford about to get that replaced. I have tried rinsing it out but whatever is on there is there to stay.
The seperator i've cleaned.

Though knowing it's suction and airwatts is great and working backwards using the formula of (airflow x suction) /8.5 = airwatts The Airflow should be about 25cfm

So with the Hepa filter removed it is performing at about that level it was pulling about 8 cfm with the clogged filter.

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

Devin,
I found the information I had written down on the E2 black Rainbow:

E2 Black= 110cfm
95 water lift
with increase in air flow on the carpet due to new power nozzle design.

Here is some of the figures I had for the older Rainbows:


model B=43 cfm
50 water lift

chrome D=60 cfm
65 water lift
D3 =50 cfm (added motor shroud)
65 water lift
D4 =65 cfm (added 9 blade fan)
60 water lift
E series=75 cfm
70 water lift
E2+Black=110 cfm
95 water lift

 

[blackheart]

huh?

Many manufacturers when they take a cfm reading will measure at the motor to give it a higher number Take for example the Miele you will see a 140 cfm rating for them which is a motor rating but at the end of the hose you end up with about 55.

Dyson also gives higher ratings for it's vacuums than they can accomplish i will use the DC-11 canister since i have one. Looking at their spec sheet i can see a rating of 220 airwatts and 55 cfm with those numbers it would only have 34 inches of waterlift which places in it kirby territory. But my meter reads in at a 2 with it so using the figure of 20 cfm it would have 94" inches of waterlift.

The baird meter is really more of a comparison tool however it seems that each number represents about 10 cfm. it's not completely accurate but it gives me an idea of what the machine is pulling.

If the rainbow were pulling 110 cfm, It would have 1229 airwatts (110 x 95)/8.5= 1229, it would also read 10 on the baird meter.
With the airwatt and suction rating the formula says 25 cfm the meter is reading at a 2.5 telling me it is pulling around 25 cfm at the end of that hose.

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

That sounds right to me.

I understand what you are telling.
It sounds like you are on the right track to get your machine in order.

 

[ralph123]

air

blackheart said:
"If the rainbow were pulling 110 cfm, It would have 1229 airwatts (110 x 95)/8.5= 1229, it would also read 10 on the baird meter.
With the airwatt and suction rating the formula says 25 cfm the meter is reading at a 2.5 telling me it is pulling around 25 cfm at the end of that hose."


FYI: The airwatts calculation isn't so simple. You can't use the sealed suction in the calculation, particularly since the sealed suction occurs with 0 air flow. Per Ristenblatt's web site your estimate will be about 4 times too large is you use sealed suction.



http://www.ristenbatt.com/xcart/Power-of-the-Vacuum-Cleaner-Suction-Motor.html

 

[blackheart]

Okay

Just ordered a filter through Ken. He sends his greetings.


"Say hello to the members.
Cheers,
Ken"

 

[man114]

Since I'm selling these things as a side job (well more a the fact that I owned two and they wanted me to do it and it fit my schedule). I am not going to lie to anyone or pitch them one bit.

I have played around with them quite a bit if the airflow is poor, it seems way off, but a replacement filter seems like a good plan of action if the seperator is clean. Sounds like it has less airflow than my one speed E Series?

A trick for non wettables? Add a drop of dish soap to the bin. Remember the seperator will keep the water out of the motor, that is what it was designed for. It imakes a foamy mess but works. You can drop these things sideways and as long as they're running water is not getting into that motor. The foam from the soap traps the non wettables.

I still wouldn't recommend it for that purpose.

As far as storing on water basin? That solely depends on how well you dry the water basin. It is their precaution, but if you dump and thoroughly try the basin your fine.

Take it from my perspective, I have maybe 20-30 Fantoms, 2 Dysons, 4 Kirbys in the garage, 2 Rainbows, and various other machines. The Rainbow will do a fantastic job and last forever if you care for it. My single speed E series HEPA filter is still perfectly white, and that is after vacuuming disgusting black crap my Dyson DC33 left behind. Dyson is not perfect in this respect because the internal filters still need cleaning (which leads to loss of suction regardless of their claims), and I don't feel their brushrollers are agressive enough..

Is it the most convenient? No. However after the dust cloud of emptying the Dyson you begin to understand what they do what they do and why the machine is still around after all these years. The more you use it the less inconvenient it seems. Their current powerhead is very nice for a cansiter.

Is it expensive? No doubt.

If you have the time to use it properly it will perform as advertised. If you maintain it it will last a long time. To any buyer, be it on ebay, craigslist or a dealer, it you take care of it it isn't a 6 month machine like your $50 disposable, but you have to decide if you like it because it probably will last 20+ years.

The other positive is it holds value well. Rainbow gives you a good trade in value. They sell at commendable prices online (unless someone uninformed unloads it cheap). It is a fairly safe buy in that respect.

 

[mark40511]

Dish soap???

NOOOOOOOO!!

You don't want FOAM in the basin at all!!

It is damaging to a Rainbow!

As for the adding dish soap to trap non wet(able) dirt....I just add a few drops of ESSENTIAL OIL........absolutely NO foam and wouldn't the OIL act in the same manner? I also know you can add a drop of JET DRY rinse aid for non wet(able)...But in all honestly, I can't think of anything that I vacuum that is non wet(able), but I add the oil or jet dry anyway.......Even the JET DRY foams if you add too much, so I just add a drop.

 

[man114]

I'm not saying a boatload, a drop. You'd be surprised because once you pick up the stuff it kills the foam. Just like when you put your dirty dishes in the sink and the bubbles die down.

I'm not saying give it a good old squirt don't get me wrong.. Perhaps foamy mess was an over exaggeration.

Actually HE laundry detergent would probably be a better alternative due to the foam inhibitors.

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

I agree with Mark BUT I have never tired the HE Tide I use in the Maytag Neptune. You are right, even with our soft water , it has almost no suds.
I am going to give it a try.

 

[man114]

As I said I prrobably over exaggerated, but it is messy. I am not talking filling it up with a boatload of detergent so it looks like a washer in a TV sitcom overflowing. I'm talking a drop. HE detergent probably even better due to the lack of foam.

 

[ralph123]

regarding the poor airflow

With any canister, if the airflow is less than expected, you should consider checking the hose for clogs/obstructions. Is the air flow significantly better at the base with the hose detached? Presumably it is safe to run water through the new Rainbow's hose given that it can be used to pick up water. I'm sure there are other tricks to cleaning obstructions from a hose that others can share.

 

[mark40511]

Well, the reason

I expected EVEN A drop of dish soap to foam up........is the fact that even if I use three drops of jet dry........that will start to FOAM too much......Just three drops, and rinse aid isn't even supposed to foam............So since dish soap IS supposed to foam, I figured even a drop would send it over the edge......I can see how the dirt would stop the foam, but believe it or not, it takes a a few minutes of vacuuming for me before the basin even starts to begin to look dirty.......I guess because I'm OCD so carpets are so clean....

I mean, EVEN the BIG GREEN bottle of Air Freshener from Rexair foams up. The only way I don't get any foam is if I used essential oil or the little bottles of the Rexair scents....I even tried Fabric softener once (the cheap liquid kind) and that foamed like CRAZY! I was shocked because I didn't think that stuff was supposed to foam at all.

 

[williamr1248]

New (sort of) Rainbow

I was wondering about a kink in the hose effecting the air flow too. It looks like there might be a kink in the middle of the hose (just above and to the left of the floor tool) but it might just be the way the picture tuned out.

 

[blackheart]

Okay

I checked the hose over there is a spot where it's a little uneven it shouldn't effect the flow too badly.

I also ran water through the hose to check for clogs it looks like it just washed the dust on the inside of the hose out the water was a light grey. It was pulling a 2.5 when i straightened the hose it managed a 3 any bends or curves in a hose can effect airflow.

Oh i should add that i cannot get a reading at the inlet because i cannot get a seal on it

 

[chris]

I was doing my daily vacuuming this morning at 5 and all this talk about jet dry in the water had me wanting to try it so I did. When I was finished I could see no difference in the water after I was done. My water is surprisingly clean after I vacuum only just slightly cloudy and still able to see through it. Only used two drops and it really didn't foam anymore than the Rainbow fragrances or the green air freshener does. Wanted to ask this question earlier but have been out washing down the house all day. What does the jet dry actually do? Sorry for going off topic.

 

[mark40511]

I'm sorry to go off topic too......

But....Jet Dry makes the water "wetter". It increases the water's dirty trapping ability. I think oil based fragrances do as well, since the oil allows things to stick more easily to the water? Rainbow even sold this solution called "Aquawet" (not sure if they still do) and I've been told countless times that this is basically just the same thing as "dishwasher rinse aid"

Someone in another forum had mentioned they used Rubbing Alcohol in the dishwasher rinse aid dispenser because it also causes a sheeting action. I would have NEVER in a million years though to do that! It sounds like a good idea.

Then I started wondering if pouring a little rubbing alcohol in the water basin would do the same thing as Jet Dry?

It's really NOT an issue as long as you don't have any non-wettable dirt in your home that you're vacuuming........But it still adds a layer of protection I would think "just in case" something gets vacuumed that's not wettable.

 

[man114]

Adding stuff other than fragrances to the water is pointless in terms of cleaning unless you are sucking up stuff like drywall dust. If the water isn't sufficient in terms of holding dirt in quantity get the larger basin or dump it more often. Jet Dry isn't cheap.

Stuff that couldn't be separated with water would be my main concern. Most of it is not ordinary household dirt.

In terms of household dirt collection you're taking a design that dates back to the 1930s. 1930s units are still working. So are ones from 30 years ago. Normal, everyday dust is not an issue for these machines. That is most of what you'll get. If you're sanding drywall, the HEPA will still get it, not good for the machine but that's what will happen.

To me, even selling them, it an expensive machine, you want what it does or you don't. Even an in home demo can't convince you of that.

I've got 2 of them, Dysons, Fantoms, Kirbys and other high end or bagless units, but I still use the Rainbow because upon emptying you don't get a face full of dust and it is cheap on supplies and maintenance. My wife loves it.

 

[tolivac]

Remember it says in the Rainbow owners manual-DO NOT PICK UP DRYWALL,PLASTER DUST or ASH with your Rainbow vacuum.Large amounts of that debris will clog the HEPA filter-so says the Rainbow book.So I don't use a Rainbow to clean up those things.