Well, I
was still talking bout the stove.
was still talking bout the stove.
Nationwide gas stove ban?
- Thread starter panasonicvac
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Yes, you were
John,
But you need to keep in mind that this falls under the "global warming" category which has become very political and that's why it's an issue. I believe this will just lead to better ventilation regulations and maybe that's a good thing, time will tell.
Jim
John,
But you need to keep in mind that this falls under the "global warming" category which has become very political and that's why it's an issue. I believe this will just lead to better ventilation regulations and maybe that's a good thing, time will tell.
Jim
California plans to outlaw gas heaters.
I guess if it burns it has to go.
I guess if it burns it has to go.
There are consequences for clean energy.
Dead whales are washing up on our shores, is this a sign of what they call progress?
https://www.nj.com/news/2023/01/7th...re-calls-to-stop-offshore-wind-work-grow.html
Dead whales are washing up on our shores, is this a sign of what they call progress?
https://www.nj.com/news/2023/01/7th...re-calls-to-stop-offshore-wind-work-grow.html
CNN helps to push the "propaganda."
Telling the truth seems to get you in trouble at CNN. Let the "propaganda" continue.
Jim
Telling the truth seems to get you in trouble at CNN. Let the "propaganda" continue.
Jim
dysonman1
Well-known member
I'll never cook on anything other than Gas. They will have to pry my commercial stove out of my cold dead hands to get it. If I had not gone into the vacuum business, I would have been a chef and own my own restaurant. I cook with Fire!
There will always be gas.
There are 3 ovens in my kitchen.. 2 are electric. The gas stove is a 5 burner appliance. You could cremate a body on that thing.
Gas is so controllable, too. You turn it off, and it goes off. Electric stays hot a long time.
But, there will also always be gasbags out there as well.
There are 3 ovens in my kitchen.. 2 are electric. The gas stove is a 5 burner appliance. You could cremate a body on that thing.
Gas is so controllable, too. You turn it off, and it goes off. Electric stays hot a long time.
But, there will also always be gasbags out there as well.
human
Well-known member
I woke up to an an interesting piece on NPR this morning about this controversy, examining the relative effectiveness of the left's and and the right's rhetoric. the right is basically owning the debate with a personal and alarmist (if somewhat overstated) message—'they're coming for your gas stove', while the left's message, based on a long-known issue of indoor air quality, with long-standing guidance to always run the exhaust (one that vents to the outside and not back in your face) when using a gas stove, combined with environmentalists' general push against gas because it contributes to climate change, is failing too broad to gain much traction because it lacks a component of individual impact. The piece went on to say that an outright ban is very unlikely and has only been expressed as a possibility that some officials are open to examining. There is no legislation or executive order pending.
human
Well-known member
NPR piece on gas stoves
Here's a link to the NPR piece I was referring to above. It really puts things into perspective. Again, relax. Nobody's coming for your gas stove...or gas logs...or gas grill...or gas water heater...or gas dryer....
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/21/1150...the-culture-war-in-less-than-a-week-heres-why
Here's a link to the NPR piece I was referring to above. It really puts things into perspective. Again, relax. Nobody's coming for your gas stove...or gas logs...or gas grill...or gas water heater...or gas dryer....
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/21/1150...the-culture-war-in-less-than-a-week-heres-why
Time will tell
"It's always good to know where someone sits before you ask them where they stand."
.
This is one man's point of view who is a leftist and globalist. How many times have we heard them say "there is nothing to see here" or "there's no there there"? only to find out the opposite....Time will tell stay tuned.
Side note: "Brady approaches stories from the consumer point-of-view to make clear how climate and energy policy-making affects individual lives. He has reported on gas utilities facing an uncertain future in a world more concerned about climate change, the long saga over the Keystone XL oil pipeline, the closing of a light bulb factory in Pennsylvania and how gas ranges pollute homes and (make climate change worse").
It's all about climate change this is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now. Also back in the 70's they told us we were headed for the next ice age how quickly we forget...
Side note #2: Someone needs to tell Al Gore water boils at 212 deg F. If you add 5 teaspoons of salt to 1.3 gallons of water (5 liters of water), it will boil at 100.4 deg C. I don't remember ever seeing our oceans "boiling" but that's just me.
Jim[this post was last edited: 1/22/2023-12:49]
"It's always good to know where someone sits before you ask them where they stand."
.
This is one man's point of view who is a leftist and globalist. How many times have we heard them say "there is nothing to see here" or "there's no there there"? only to find out the opposite....Time will tell stay tuned.
Side note: "Brady approaches stories from the consumer point-of-view to make clear how climate and energy policy-making affects individual lives. He has reported on gas utilities facing an uncertain future in a world more concerned about climate change, the long saga over the Keystone XL oil pipeline, the closing of a light bulb factory in Pennsylvania and how gas ranges pollute homes and (make climate change worse").
It's all about climate change this is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now. Also back in the 70's they told us we were headed for the next ice age how quickly we forget...
Side note #2: Someone needs to tell Al Gore water boils at 212 deg F. If you add 5 teaspoons of salt to 1.3 gallons of water (5 liters of water), it will boil at 100.4 deg C. I don't remember ever seeing our oceans "boiling" but that's just me.
Jim[this post was last edited: 1/22/2023-12:49]
"The debate is settled"
"There's always two sides to every story, and then there is the truth"...."follow the money"
Jim
"There's always two sides to every story, and then there is the truth"...."follow the money"
Jim
Teach the kids??
Let the brainwashing continue!!
Jim
Let the brainwashing continue!!
Jim
I like a gas stove as well. Hope to heck they don't ban them. As someone else said just another way to control people.
I do have an interest in the induction cook tops. would like to try that out and see how it compares. I know you can get the hot plate styles however i don't think they would perform as well as the now availble cook tops. I saw one installed in a remodeled home years ago. The Home owner also liked a gas range and had one but also wanted to try the new technology at the time. Sad to say I do now know if the home owner liked the induction cook top installed or not.
I do have an interest in the induction cook tops. would like to try that out and see how it compares. I know you can get the hot plate styles however i don't think they would perform as well as the now availble cook tops. I saw one installed in a remodeled home years ago. The Home owner also liked a gas range and had one but also wanted to try the new technology at the time. Sad to say I do now know if the home owner liked the induction cook top installed or not.
texaskirbyguy
Well-known member
The induction technology has the potential to work well with some improvements, but still has some severe drawbacks in my eyes:
1 - the complexity. Lots of electronics are used, lots to go bad, esp when cheapo-made components are used (like electrolytic caps). These units will obsolete themselves quickly as control boards will be discontinued prematurely.
2 - they only work with magnetic cookware. Over 90% of quality cookware is non-ferrous, like aluminum, copper, good stainless for easy care and good heat transfer. Low grades of stainless may work somewhat, but not was well as pure ferrous. Improved ferrous cookware will help but many people may have already spent a lot on their current cookware (like me)...
I was given an 'Induxpert' standalone induction cooktop and I tested it with everything I had. Only my cast iron skillet worked and it worked somewhat close to how gas would. Problem is that if you lift the pan for more than a few seconds to shift ingredients or stir, the unit shuts off, leaving me frustrated.
I am close to donating this thing.
My mom's 1966 gas cooktop original to her house still works great! Has been 100% reliable so far...
1 - the complexity. Lots of electronics are used, lots to go bad, esp when cheapo-made components are used (like electrolytic caps). These units will obsolete themselves quickly as control boards will be discontinued prematurely.
2 - they only work with magnetic cookware. Over 90% of quality cookware is non-ferrous, like aluminum, copper, good stainless for easy care and good heat transfer. Low grades of stainless may work somewhat, but not was well as pure ferrous. Improved ferrous cookware will help but many people may have already spent a lot on their current cookware (like me)...
I was given an 'Induxpert' standalone induction cooktop and I tested it with everything I had. Only my cast iron skillet worked and it worked somewhat close to how gas would. Problem is that if you lift the pan for more than a few seconds to shift ingredients or stir, the unit shuts off, leaving me frustrated.
I am close to donating this thing.
My mom's 1966 gas cooktop original to her house still works great! Has been 100% reliable so far...
human
Well-known member
texaskirbyguy wrote: These units will obsolete themselves quickly as control boards will be discontinued prematurely.
I reply: This is why I refer to control boards as self-destruct devices. They're designed to fail, shortly after the warranty expires. The rapid discontinuation of specific control board models is done to ensure most consumers will simply give up and replace the appliance, which is more profitable to the manufacturer. They want us to forget that major household appliances once fell into a category known as 'durable goods'. I was faced with this a few years ago when the control board on my Lady Kenmore electric range went out. My home warranty company gave me the option of cashing me out for about $325 or having the board rebuilt. I chose the latter. When the technician came to install it, he said it should be good for at least another 25 years, based on the age of the stove.
I reply: This is why I refer to control boards as self-destruct devices. They're designed to fail, shortly after the warranty expires. The rapid discontinuation of specific control board models is done to ensure most consumers will simply give up and replace the appliance, which is more profitable to the manufacturer. They want us to forget that major household appliances once fell into a category known as 'durable goods'. I was faced with this a few years ago when the control board on my Lady Kenmore electric range went out. My home warranty company gave me the option of cashing me out for about $325 or having the board rebuilt. I chose the latter. When the technician came to install it, he said it should be good for at least another 25 years, based on the age of the stove.
texaskirbyguy
Well-known member
I hate circuit boards in appliances with a passion.
I am an electronics engineer and circuit board designer, and I get a lot of insight on how things are made now. In short it is pretty sad, and re-enforces why I buy or keep vintage stuff as much as possible.
Given that most of them are made in China, the factories there usually have the freedom to substitute in the cheapest parts they can find, as long as the specs are equal to or better than designed. This is easy - anything can be written... However there are no real measures on the quality for parts that are not rated for military, aerospace, or automotive. So whether it may be a flashlight or light bulb or a built-in oven, the discrete parts quality can be the same. And a failure of one cap in a board with 500 parts, can render the whole board 'bad'. Even appliance techs will not troubleshoot a board to component level, and they are not allowed to. They have to replace the whole board as spec'ed by the manufacturer.
Now the manufacturer is the one to choose how long boards may be available, if at all. Luckily Carrier still had a factory control board for my 25 year old furnace that I had replaced a few years back after it developed a hate for the cold.
A few years back I had to replace a cap on the board in my 25 year old GE range as it caused the timer beeper to constantly squeal. Luckily the board was only for a clock and timer, not for gas controls, as it was discontinued.
Brand does not mean quality anymore either as the boards are subcontracted out.
I scavenge stuff from the curb to see if there are simple fixes so they can be donated or sold. Build quality is pretty bad from what I have seen. Even JBL, bose and Klipshe use cheap off-brand caps that fail prematurely. Some models even used off-the-shelf self-contained amp chips like one would find in a TV or car radio. TVs have similar issues with caps and LEDs in the backlights - one goes out, the whole string does. Microwave magnatrons do not get proper cooling. I can go on and on........
And just when I thought that something could not be made cheaper and/or worse, they are.
When going through some new houses under construction, I noticed all the water heaters were tankless - very complex control boards in those. A complex HVAC damper control unit was used to regulate the upstairs with the downstairs temps. Lets not forget that the heatpumps and the air handler and thermostat have control boards also.
The fireplaces were remote controlled, so that means control boards there in a hot area.
Even the bathroom exhaust fans all had DC brushless motors for energy efficiency. I bet the caps in the control board will fail in 10 years, and the units have to be replaced. I have never had an AC bath fan go bad. Maybe every 30 years I would take one down (they unplug) to clean and oil it, thats it.
Energy efficient stuff is not specifically designed to save consumers money in the long run (although it can unintendedly), but to just collectively save power off the grid so that it can be wasted in new places.
I would hate to see what a lightning strike would do to a modern home...
And those with gas and appliances that are electrically controlled will be in the cold in a power outage.
During a recent 4 hour outage I still had hot water, a stove, and a gas unvented fireplace.
Time for me to get off the soap box now and burn it for heat...
I am an electronics engineer and circuit board designer, and I get a lot of insight on how things are made now. In short it is pretty sad, and re-enforces why I buy or keep vintage stuff as much as possible.
Given that most of them are made in China, the factories there usually have the freedom to substitute in the cheapest parts they can find, as long as the specs are equal to or better than designed. This is easy - anything can be written... However there are no real measures on the quality for parts that are not rated for military, aerospace, or automotive. So whether it may be a flashlight or light bulb or a built-in oven, the discrete parts quality can be the same. And a failure of one cap in a board with 500 parts, can render the whole board 'bad'. Even appliance techs will not troubleshoot a board to component level, and they are not allowed to. They have to replace the whole board as spec'ed by the manufacturer.
Now the manufacturer is the one to choose how long boards may be available, if at all. Luckily Carrier still had a factory control board for my 25 year old furnace that I had replaced a few years back after it developed a hate for the cold.
A few years back I had to replace a cap on the board in my 25 year old GE range as it caused the timer beeper to constantly squeal. Luckily the board was only for a clock and timer, not for gas controls, as it was discontinued.
Brand does not mean quality anymore either as the boards are subcontracted out.
I scavenge stuff from the curb to see if there are simple fixes so they can be donated or sold. Build quality is pretty bad from what I have seen. Even JBL, bose and Klipshe use cheap off-brand caps that fail prematurely. Some models even used off-the-shelf self-contained amp chips like one would find in a TV or car radio. TVs have similar issues with caps and LEDs in the backlights - one goes out, the whole string does. Microwave magnatrons do not get proper cooling. I can go on and on........
And just when I thought that something could not be made cheaper and/or worse, they are.
When going through some new houses under construction, I noticed all the water heaters were tankless - very complex control boards in those. A complex HVAC damper control unit was used to regulate the upstairs with the downstairs temps. Lets not forget that the heatpumps and the air handler and thermostat have control boards also.
The fireplaces were remote controlled, so that means control boards there in a hot area.
Even the bathroom exhaust fans all had DC brushless motors for energy efficiency. I bet the caps in the control board will fail in 10 years, and the units have to be replaced. I have never had an AC bath fan go bad. Maybe every 30 years I would take one down (they unplug) to clean and oil it, thats it.
Energy efficient stuff is not specifically designed to save consumers money in the long run (although it can unintendedly), but to just collectively save power off the grid so that it can be wasted in new places.
I would hate to see what a lightning strike would do to a modern home...
And those with gas and appliances that are electrically controlled will be in the cold in a power outage.
During a recent 4 hour outage I still had hot water, a stove, and a gas unvented fireplace.
Time for me to get off the soap box now and burn it for heat...
'We're saving the planet"
They're going to save the planet and hurt the poorest people among us in the process.
They're going to save the planet and hurt the poorest people among us in the process.
WH walks back possible stove ban after outrage
Oct 25th, 2022, NPR memo: NPR proposing ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality)
"The need for gas stove regulation has reached a boiling point...There is sufficient information available for CPSP to issue an NPR in FY 2023 proposing to ban gas stoves in homes."
Richard Trumka JR.
Consumer product safety Commission (CPSC)
Oct 25,2022
So Onces again they tell us there is "nothing to see here" and then there is the truth. Let's boil this down. They do want to come after our gas stoves according to this memo. "it has reached a boiling point" So they sent out a test balloon and it blew up in their faces so now they claim that they really didn't mean it and this is all "right wing hype."
"This is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now." "it's not what the liberal media tells you, it's what they don't tell you that you need to know about."
Jim
Oct 25th, 2022, NPR memo: NPR proposing ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality)
"The need for gas stove regulation has reached a boiling point...There is sufficient information available for CPSP to issue an NPR in FY 2023 proposing to ban gas stoves in homes."
Richard Trumka JR.
Consumer product safety Commission (CPSC)
Oct 25,2022
So Onces again they tell us there is "nothing to see here" and then there is the truth. Let's boil this down. They do want to come after our gas stoves according to this memo. "it has reached a boiling point" So they sent out a test balloon and it blew up in their faces so now they claim that they really didn't mean it and this is all "right wing hype."
"This is not going away it's just been swept under the rug for now." "it's not what the liberal media tells you, it's what they don't tell you that you need to know about."
Jim
human
Well-known member
I'm not following you here. NPR (National Public Radio) is not proposing a ban on gas stoves, nor do they have the authority to do so. They just report the news. According to the article linked below, one commissioner on the Consumer Product Safety Commission—just one—is "open to the possibility of a nationwide ban". It's not even to the point of being proposed and thus it's nowhere near a done deal, nor is it likely to ever be one.
Read the article. It points out that a more efficient, less polluting gas burner technology has existed for quite some time, but up until now, it has failed to gain traction in the marketplace. Perhaps its time has finally come. The article also reiterates the long-standing guidance to use an exhaust van, vented to the outside, whenever a gas stove is in use.
Realistically, a nationwide ban on gas stoves is simply not feasible. The far more likely possibility is that requirements for improved technology on new stoves will be implemented and the older types will gradually be retrofitted or replaced as they wear out or consumers decide to upgrade on their own.
I'm old enough to remember the mid '70s when catalytic converters were first required on cars. They didn't immediately ban older cars that burned leaded fuel; in fact, they kept selling leaded fuel for another 15 years or so, until the majority of pre-emissions cars aged out as a natural progression.
Read the article. It points out that a more efficient, less polluting gas burner technology has existed for quite some time, but up until now, it has failed to gain traction in the marketplace. Perhaps its time has finally come. The article also reiterates the long-standing guidance to use an exhaust van, vented to the outside, whenever a gas stove is in use.
Realistically, a nationwide ban on gas stoves is simply not feasible. The far more likely possibility is that requirements for improved technology on new stoves will be implemented and the older types will gradually be retrofitted or replaced as they wear out or consumers decide to upgrade on their own.
I'm old enough to remember the mid '70s when catalytic converters were first required on cars. They didn't immediately ban older cars that burned leaded fuel; in fact, they kept selling leaded fuel for another 15 years or so, until the majority of pre-emissions cars aged out as a natural progression.
Here is another article on the subject. I don't know what NPR is here.
"On January 9, 2023, Bloomberg published an article titled, US safety agency to consider ban on gas stoves amid heath fears; in which consumer product safety commissioner (CPSC) commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. claimed that gas stoves are a hidden hazard...Any option is on the table. Products that can't be made safe can be banned; A ban was presaged on October 25, 2022 When Commissioner Trumka sought to initiate a notice of proposed rulemaking at the CPSC to ban gas stoves in homes. In both Bloomberg article and a memorandum authored by Commissioner Trumka, titled 'NPR proposing Ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality); two studies were cited that attributed gas stoves to high levels of nitrous oxide as well as childhood asthma."
Side note: All I'm showing here is that this was talked about this is an issue despite those who say again "there is nothing to see here" "they are not coming for your stoves". Whether it is feasible or not, it is an issue being considered. [this post was last edited: 2/5/2023-12:13]
https://madison.com/news/national/u... on gas,pollution, which can cause health and
"On January 9, 2023, Bloomberg published an article titled, US safety agency to consider ban on gas stoves amid heath fears; in which consumer product safety commissioner (CPSC) commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. claimed that gas stoves are a hidden hazard...Any option is on the table. Products that can't be made safe can be banned; A ban was presaged on October 25, 2022 When Commissioner Trumka sought to initiate a notice of proposed rulemaking at the CPSC to ban gas stoves in homes. In both Bloomberg article and a memorandum authored by Commissioner Trumka, titled 'NPR proposing Ban on gas stoves (indoor air quality); two studies were cited that attributed gas stoves to high levels of nitrous oxide as well as childhood asthma."
Side note: All I'm showing here is that this was talked about this is an issue despite those who say again "there is nothing to see here" "they are not coming for your stoves". Whether it is feasible or not, it is an issue being considered. [this post was last edited: 2/5/2023-12:13]
https://madison.com/news/national/u... on gas,pollution, which can cause health and
