My new Hoover Constellation and 119 Junior
- Thread starter markus79
- Start date
vacbear58
Well-known member
Constellation
Congratulations on more great finds Markus.
Firstly what a great 119, it is a very long time since I saw one on such good condition. Can you let us know the serial number and perhaps we might be able to get a date of the cleaner for you. From what you have told is I expect that Hoover upright cleaners were rare in Finland. You are particularly lucky that the handle appears to be original and intact - these often dry up and crumble away.
Now for the Constellation. Is that an original colour for this machine? It looks great but I wonder from what seems to be paint spray from the inside of the top of the cleaner. But once again more detail differences between cleaners of different territories ...... This is the earlier style of flipover nozzle only ever seen here on the TOL Conquest model - eventually all models had the flip over (until the pedal style that Benny describes on the Freedom) but with plastic coupling and hoover roundel on the front - as Markus demonstrates from his catalogue scan other constellations in Finland had this version with the metal coupling.
Again Markus, could this hose be a replacement? That style of suction control was only seen here on the Harlequin (419/429), Conquest (507) models and Comvertable/DAM models. Although the constellation always had one right back to the 822 (and the 822 might have been the first UK suction cleaner to have such a suction control) it was of a smaller design - I was going to say simpler but it does not get much simpler than this.
Back with the catalogue for a moment - although that style floor nozzle was used with early models 417G, by the mid 1960s (around the time of Smoke Pine/Swedish Green) it had been dropped here in favour of the larger white floor nozzle as with Ryan's Constellation. That smaller style nozzle did carry on here on the Hooverette until production ended. The 417 shown in the catalogue had the later style flipover nozzle - it was not in production long - it was the last version being replaced after amost 20 years by the updated styling 427.
Benny, I hate to correct you but in fact there were four different nozzles on the Constellation - you are absoluly correct for Constellation 862 onwards, but the 822 and 822a had separate carpet and hard floor nozzles - the floor nozzle was similar in style to the white one used on Senior/Harlequin models (in fact first seen on the 417 in 1953, but first series only - on 417C & E variants it reverted back to the earlier 402 style). The carpet nozzle was similar to the US Aerodyne nozzle again first seen on the first 417 series but dropped on the 417c onwards.
I would agree with what I think is the general opinion here that the white carpet nozzle that Ryan shows just above was actually pretty good at cleaning carpets - much better than the earlier or following versions - when I bought my Maytag Satellite I did a comparison with my 867A and although the Satallite was much better I was surprised at just how good the white nozzle was.
Markus, it is interesting insight into the Finland manufacturing facility, in some Hoover documentation I have from 1958 they describe it as being their own facility although perhaps they sold it off at some stage to the CEO.
Al
Congratulations on more great finds Markus.
Firstly what a great 119, it is a very long time since I saw one on such good condition. Can you let us know the serial number and perhaps we might be able to get a date of the cleaner for you. From what you have told is I expect that Hoover upright cleaners were rare in Finland. You are particularly lucky that the handle appears to be original and intact - these often dry up and crumble away.
Now for the Constellation. Is that an original colour for this machine? It looks great but I wonder from what seems to be paint spray from the inside of the top of the cleaner. But once again more detail differences between cleaners of different territories ...... This is the earlier style of flipover nozzle only ever seen here on the TOL Conquest model - eventually all models had the flip over (until the pedal style that Benny describes on the Freedom) but with plastic coupling and hoover roundel on the front - as Markus demonstrates from his catalogue scan other constellations in Finland had this version with the metal coupling.
Again Markus, could this hose be a replacement? That style of suction control was only seen here on the Harlequin (419/429), Conquest (507) models and Comvertable/DAM models. Although the constellation always had one right back to the 822 (and the 822 might have been the first UK suction cleaner to have such a suction control) it was of a smaller design - I was going to say simpler but it does not get much simpler than this.
Back with the catalogue for a moment - although that style floor nozzle was used with early models 417G, by the mid 1960s (around the time of Smoke Pine/Swedish Green) it had been dropped here in favour of the larger white floor nozzle as with Ryan's Constellation. That smaller style nozzle did carry on here on the Hooverette until production ended. The 417 shown in the catalogue had the later style flipover nozzle - it was not in production long - it was the last version being replaced after amost 20 years by the updated styling 427.
Benny, I hate to correct you but in fact there were four different nozzles on the Constellation - you are absoluly correct for Constellation 862 onwards, but the 822 and 822a had separate carpet and hard floor nozzles - the floor nozzle was similar in style to the white one used on Senior/Harlequin models (in fact first seen on the 417 in 1953, but first series only - on 417C & E variants it reverted back to the earlier 402 style). The carpet nozzle was similar to the US Aerodyne nozzle again first seen on the first 417 series but dropped on the 417c onwards.
I would agree with what I think is the general opinion here that the white carpet nozzle that Ryan shows just above was actually pretty good at cleaning carpets - much better than the earlier or following versions - when I bought my Maytag Satellite I did a comparison with my 867A and although the Satallite was much better I was surprised at just how good the white nozzle was.
Markus, it is interesting insight into the Finland manufacturing facility, in some Hoover documentation I have from 1958 they describe it as being their own facility although perhaps they sold it off at some stage to the CEO.
Al
Hoover Constellation
Hi Al!
I am sure that the hose and the color are original because I owned the same machine about a ten years ago. I also wondered why there is red paint inside the top=) Here is a picture from 1971 magazine. This model sold with detachable wheel stand until the 1977. Last colors were red, blue and gray.
PS. Junior type number is 503247
PSS. Tomorrow I get my first Hoover Portable which I bought with 10 euros+postage last week.
Best Regards
Markus
Hi Al!
I am sure that the hose and the color are original because I owned the same machine about a ten years ago. I also wondered why there is red paint inside the top=) Here is a picture from 1971 magazine. This model sold with detachable wheel stand until the 1977. Last colors were red, blue and gray.
PS. Junior type number is 503247
PSS. Tomorrow I get my first Hoover Portable which I bought with 10 euros+postage last week.
Best Regards
Markus
That has to be the best floor tool I've ever seen! Or maybe I'm just biased for Hoover... 
Either way, if I do buy a Constellation I now know it will do a good job on the carpets. I must admit though, nothing will beat (pun intended) the good ole uprights!
Either way, if I do buy a Constellation I now know it will do a good job on the carpets. I must admit though, nothing will beat (pun intended) the good ole uprights!
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Jamie the wheel stand will likely before the none-floating model.
Vacbear, it was rather short-sighted of me to mention in an earlier message the first two Constellations available in the UK and then not refer to them later on when talking about floor tools. As you quite rightly say, these models had two separate attachments but do you happen to know if all these cleaners had the buckle arrangement to hold the attachment or did some early attempts ever have the push fittings like the 417 cylinder, the sort I call the Electrolux style?
Vacbear, it was rather short-sighted of me to mention in an earlier message the first two Constellations available in the UK and then not refer to them later on when talking about floor tools. As you quite rightly say, these models had two separate attachments but do you happen to know if all these cleaners had the buckle arrangement to hold the attachment or did some early attempts ever have the push fittings like the 417 cylinder, the sort I call the Electrolux style?
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
No Jamie, Hoover used to have buckles on the back of the tubes on some of the oldest cleaners made after the 612. They also had straight push fit tubes on some cylinders, before standardising the fitting to a buckle on the front. This would have been early 1950's.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Yes I realise that, but what I am saying is, is that during the 1940s and 1950s Hoover were also using push fit tubes on some cylinder cleaners, the same as they began doing again in the 1980s. You said by your reasoning these would be later models, but the reality was that it was earlier models which had push fit tubing and accessories. Hoover then ran with the buckle / lock arrangement on the front of the tubing for all cleaners, changing only in the early 1980s to the ring fitting on plastic tubes instead of a lock / buckle on a metal tube. Push fit tubing was then used from the mid-1980s on budget cleaners like the Portapower and Sprite, and on total system uprights, becoming much more widespread during the 1990's.
The only exception to the above was the Hoover-branded Aqua Vac wet and dry cleaners sold in the early 1980s. These had the same fittings as the Aqua Vac of the same period, which was a 32mm plastic push fit with push button clip similar to that of a Philips cleaner.
The only exception to the above was the Hoover-branded Aqua Vac wet and dry cleaners sold in the early 1980s. These had the same fittings as the Aqua Vac of the same period, which was a 32mm plastic push fit with push button clip similar to that of a Philips cleaner.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Ryry, it has been fascinating to see those pictures. Thank you.
Jamie, I think no one will know the true reason as to why any manufacturer did what they did. Now, I like the push fit tubes above anything else as I think the connection is solid and mostly the tubes do not wobble. However, there is one very strong argument against them, and that is the fact that quite often the attachments and the tubes stick to each other, making removal incredibly difficult.
It could be that Hoover wanted a fitting which was firm but also easily removed. For me, I don't like tubes with fiddly buttons and clips as I think the tubes are just too wobbly. But it comes down to personal preferences. Factor into this also if you will that so many cleaners have used 32mm push-fit tubes, meaning that the consumer could use parts off other cleaners if required. A good deal of people did just that. At least with Hoover's own unique fitting they could cling onto a slightly greater portion of the spares market, even if other companies were making none genuine parts to fit Hoover.
Then going back to what I said a while ago about having to build failure into a product, the tubes and accessories on Hoover cleaners did wear out more quickly than others. So you can chose several reasons for their decision to use the fittings which they did.
Jamie, I think no one will know the true reason as to why any manufacturer did what they did. Now, I like the push fit tubes above anything else as I think the connection is solid and mostly the tubes do not wobble. However, there is one very strong argument against them, and that is the fact that quite often the attachments and the tubes stick to each other, making removal incredibly difficult.
It could be that Hoover wanted a fitting which was firm but also easily removed. For me, I don't like tubes with fiddly buttons and clips as I think the tubes are just too wobbly. But it comes down to personal preferences. Factor into this also if you will that so many cleaners have used 32mm push-fit tubes, meaning that the consumer could use parts off other cleaners if required. A good deal of people did just that. At least with Hoover's own unique fitting they could cling onto a slightly greater portion of the spares market, even if other companies were making none genuine parts to fit Hoover.
Then going back to what I said a while ago about having to build failure into a product, the tubes and accessories on Hoover cleaners did wear out more quickly than others. So you can chose several reasons for their decision to use the fittings which they did.
vacbear58
Well-known member
Pip and clip
Benny
An interesting topic you have raised, inspite of the background noise.
As far as I am aware all Hoover cleaners had some sort of locking mechanism going right back to the start. The mechanism was updated and simplified with the introduction of the 160 and 375, which also brought in lighter weight wands and tools.
The first sign of friction fit tools appears in the UK with the model 402 in 1948 and I believe model 50 in the USA although later versions of that cleaner adopted a locking mechanism again. Although the tool kit for the model 119 was superficially the same as the earlier 375 it too was friction fit although those of the 612 retained the earlier locking mechanism.
In the UK the first sign of "pip and clip", what came to become the Hoover standard, was first seen here in the model 417 in 1953. Curiously these were on the underside of the wands, tools etc. - the only time as far as i am aware they were seen in that position. In 1956 with the introduction of the Constellation and 638 and the "blue" colour scheme with the first stretch hoses in the UK the pip and clip arrangement moved to the upper side where it stayed. But for some curious reason the 417 reverted back to the earlier style friction fit tools - the only model to have them, even dustettes had pip and clip tools. At this time the 417 was somewhat downgraded, presumably to help differentiate it from the Constellation (although there was little difference in price) and probably to reduce cost - a stupid measure as it involved the maintenance of a completely separate inventory line for that one model until 1962 or so when the 417G was introduced - all the tools and wands were unique to that model, where they were consistant across the rest of the range.
To the best of my knowledge, pip and clip (or pip and locking ring) were maintaned here until the end of the 1980s until the launch of the Galaxy although some models retained the locking ring method until the early 1990s. Turbopowers and turbomasters with on board tools had friction fit tools but I do not know when the other models (like the Turbopower Junior) lost their pip and ring fitting.
Al
Benny
An interesting topic you have raised, inspite of the background noise.
As far as I am aware all Hoover cleaners had some sort of locking mechanism going right back to the start. The mechanism was updated and simplified with the introduction of the 160 and 375, which also brought in lighter weight wands and tools.
The first sign of friction fit tools appears in the UK with the model 402 in 1948 and I believe model 50 in the USA although later versions of that cleaner adopted a locking mechanism again. Although the tool kit for the model 119 was superficially the same as the earlier 375 it too was friction fit although those of the 612 retained the earlier locking mechanism.
In the UK the first sign of "pip and clip", what came to become the Hoover standard, was first seen here in the model 417 in 1953. Curiously these were on the underside of the wands, tools etc. - the only time as far as i am aware they were seen in that position. In 1956 with the introduction of the Constellation and 638 and the "blue" colour scheme with the first stretch hoses in the UK the pip and clip arrangement moved to the upper side where it stayed. But for some curious reason the 417 reverted back to the earlier style friction fit tools - the only model to have them, even dustettes had pip and clip tools. At this time the 417 was somewhat downgraded, presumably to help differentiate it from the Constellation (although there was little difference in price) and probably to reduce cost - a stupid measure as it involved the maintenance of a completely separate inventory line for that one model until 1962 or so when the 417G was introduced - all the tools and wands were unique to that model, where they were consistant across the rest of the range.
To the best of my knowledge, pip and clip (or pip and locking ring) were maintaned here until the end of the 1980s until the launch of the Galaxy although some models retained the locking ring method until the early 1990s. Turbopowers and turbomasters with on board tools had friction fit tools but I do not know when the other models (like the Turbopower Junior) lost their pip and ring fitting.
Al
vacbear58
Well-known member
119 Date
Markus
Does the 119 number beging with the letter K or KG. If KG then yours is one of the very last 119 models produced from the latter part of 1956.
Thank you for posting the picture of the Constellation which again confirms the suction control for this model and the metal coupling flip over nozzle. Curious too that it shows an upholstry brush rather than the upholstry nozzle.
I hope you can see the paragraph in the attached scan about housewives in Finland demanding more Hoover washing machines
And you do realise that we shall be GREEN with envy (especially is it is green) when you post the pictures of your new Portable for such a great price, you seem to be having great luck at the moment
Al
Markus
Does the 119 number beging with the letter K or KG. If KG then yours is one of the very last 119 models produced from the latter part of 1956.
Thank you for posting the picture of the Constellation which again confirms the suction control for this model and the metal coupling flip over nozzle. Curious too that it shows an upholstry brush rather than the upholstry nozzle.
I hope you can see the paragraph in the attached scan about housewives in Finland demanding more Hoover washing machines
And you do realise that we shall be GREEN with envy (especially is it is green) when you post the pictures of your new Portable for such a great price, you seem to be having great luck at the moment
Al
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Hello vacbear. Yes, I was mentioning the clips on the back of the tube earlier. It was around 1986 when Hoover reverted to a push fitting, this time plastic tubing, using it on the Spirit cylinder and one of the Portapower models. Although different in design from the cylinder tools, a 32mm push fit was introduced on all Total System Turbopower and Turbomaster cleaners as time progressed. From here, Hoover then ran two styles of tools, with the pip and rings being used on tool kits for upright cleaners which had separate tools, and on the more expensive cylinders.
The likes of the Galaxy which you mentioned, the Jet, Sprint, the Vouge, Aria, Arianne, Telios, and more all used this push-fit tubing, some cleaners even having metal tubes by then. I am not sure when the clip and ring disappeared altogether, but it was widely used across the Alpina range and as far as the Turbopower Junior went, they never did have push-fit tubes, only pip and rings. So I think the pip and rings were used well into the 2000's.
The likes of the Galaxy which you mentioned, the Jet, Sprint, the Vouge, Aria, Arianne, Telios, and more all used this push-fit tubing, some cleaners even having metal tubes by then. I am not sure when the clip and ring disappeared altogether, but it was widely used across the Alpina range and as far as the Turbopower Junior went, they never did have push-fit tubes, only pip and rings. So I think the pip and rings were used well into the 2000's.
vacbear58
Well-known member
Just as well you mentioned it Ryan
As you were in my junk (yeah yeah, I know - in my dreams LOLOLOL)
mail. Should not be a problem, as far as I remember they are not too far buried.
Al
As you were in my junk (yeah yeah, I know - in my dreams LOLOLOL)
mail. Should not be a problem, as far as I remember they are not too far buried.
Al
Similar threads
