I want to have opinions. I would love to hear from the veterans in the vac business as well. I am looking at an old Electrolux motor. I would love to design a motor that resembles it I would love to have it cast in copper for heat transfer. Would it work When I signed up on here there was a question about what modern vacuum would I love to have and to be totally honest there isn't anything made today that really rocks my world. But I have a design of motor and canister that would be a wonderful machine. I don't like cord winders and I like simple. Like my Electrolux on sleds it has a cloth bag and a hose connector on the front. no wheels to go bad no fancy manometers cord winders. ever have a vacuum you must feed the cord back into? the Dysons are ok,, but single fan high speed motors. I read about Peder Andersen Fisker who started Nilfisk even they now went from the two stage low speed low wattage motor to the 1400 watt single fan motor, and to my dismay so did Miele. SO the more I type this, I realize that this is a two fold question. One would any vac company be interested in a new motor design and two, what is the future of vacuums. is there any hope that the old two stage idea will be back or will it ever go away completely? Thanks so much Mich
Motor Design
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dysonman1
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2 stage, double ball bearing motors are still being made. Even for uprights (Simplicity 7850/Riccar 8955). The best vacuum motor (from the perspective of durability) today is the Rainbow brushless "Hurricane" motor. Carbon brush motors wear out proportionate to the cube of their speed. Double a motor's speed, and it wears out 8 times as fast (2 x 2 x 2 = 8). With modern vac motors, it's true that the high speed, single fan motors wear out faster - however, if you turn down the motor's speed (like you can with a Miele for example), you can achieve excellent cleaning and allow the motor to last a lot longer.
Cool. Yes I agree with the slower speed speaking of Rainbow I have my grandmother's that she bought in the 60s I guess. it is chrome and copperish colored . Never had a problem with it so far. I only use it for spills now and then but the motor is original. I think it is anyway. It is weird you can actually see the windings from the bottom. weird as heck I always wonder how water don't get sucked up into an open motored vacuum I know it's possible as I see work every time I use that Rainbow but still,,,,,mind boggling. Funny you mentioned Riccar ,when I was traveling through MO to Texas we visited that factory and they had a museum and this guy I forget his name but holy moly that guy knew more about vacuum cleaners than I though was possible to know about vacuum cleaners. That was one of the most enjoyable tourist type visits we ever had. I know a lot about motors in the scientific aspect. but I never looked under the hoods of the newer stuff and I am reading about them for fun (how I came across this website) and I am not a collector like some people are, but I look at vacuums as a power tool, anything with motors is interesting to me. and I would love to be another Peder Andersen fisker build the most high quality vacuum (and motorcycle ) that can be built. I would love to see metal come back again. Anyway I hope that the two fan motors never go away. thanks again Mich.
Here is the motor I really like. I would love to have this built in cast copper. I think this motor spins at 10,000 RPM. I like the new rainbows. Maybe I will try to get one used somewhere. I have a lot of vacuums but nothing really noteworthy not like that museum in Missouri I still can't get over that collection. Riccar must be proud to own something like that. Everyone needs to go and see that. that needs to be on the show with Larry the cable Guy. Whatever that show is called.
vegassucks
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Riccar/Simplicity
I was considering a Riccar/simplicity but the reviews for deep cleaning were poor. Surprised because they are built like tanks.
I was considering a Riccar/simplicity but the reviews for deep cleaning were poor. Surprised because they are built like tanks.
dysonman1
Well-known member
Hey Mich
Here's a pic of the double stage, double ball bearing, repairable motor used in the Simplicity and Riccar vacuums. I heard about the Museum. From what I understand, the guy that works there is really a nice man, and some people would even say 'handsome'. He's really an expert when it comes to vacuums. Tacony is lucky to have him, he's irreplaceable.
Here's a pic of the double stage, double ball bearing, repairable motor used in the Simplicity and Riccar vacuums. I heard about the Museum. From what I understand, the guy that works there is really a nice man, and some people would even say 'handsome'. He's really an expert when it comes to vacuums. Tacony is lucky to have him, he's irreplaceable.
yes!! That is a neat looking motor. do they use them in their canisters too? Yes and that guy didn't mind taking all the time and questions just enjoyed talking about vacuums. What's more they are building vacuums in USA not China. that was what I read. I need to go to Vegas when I do I am going through that museum again.
vegassucks
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Nice motors, poor brush roller
http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/pro...iews/riccar-premium-radiance-radp4-vaccum-455
See the above link. $1,500 upright with poor deep cleaning? I have seen the motor used and it is massive so the problem must be the brush roller, while powerful it is not chevron patterned and can be the only reason a machine so powerful would not deep clean.
http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/pro...iews/riccar-premium-radiance-radp4-vaccum-455
See the above link. $1,500 upright with poor deep cleaning? I have seen the motor used and it is massive so the problem must be the brush roller, while powerful it is not chevron patterned and can be the only reason a machine so powerful would not deep clean.
I never owned a Simplicity or Riccar. I liked the machines that were there that were for sale. I couldn't afford them as the cost of diesel for the motorhome kinda took most of our "fun" money away. That motor looks impressive. I hope they put that motor in the canisters that would be a neat vacuum for sure. I have 10 or so vacuums and most are Nilfisks that were used at a company for their building and I bought them all. I have one three motor job I use in my garage and I have one in the motorhome and one on each floor the rest are parts machines if I ever need them. I got that old Electrolux and Grandma's old rainbow. but I want to learn more about vacuum motor design. I don't like the single fan motors.
dysonman1
Well-known member
It's complete Bull that the Riccar/Simplicity vacuums don't deep clean well. The steel brush roller and two suction motors make a vacuum that will outclean almost any other vacuum on the market. Here's a pic of the brush roller.
vegassucks
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Deep cleaning Riccar
Many bad reviews from owners also of the Riccar also. I have never owned one and the Riccar seems well built, I have read other places that the suction was not very good. Some of the others vacuums on the Good Housekeeping reviews that I am familiar with we're spot on.
Many bad reviews from owners also of the Riccar also. I have never owned one and the Riccar seems well built, I have read other places that the suction was not very good. Some of the others vacuums on the Good Housekeeping reviews that I am familiar with we're spot on.
I don't know. when I visited the Museum in St Louis or wherever it was. it was outside of St Louis west on I44. They had the museum and they had in there their vacuums and they let you use them and give them a spin. I don't know they seem to be of quality and looking at that motor I would have to agree that it is Bull, that they have bad things said. I don't pay attention to consumer reports or good housekeeping as they don't talk about what makes things work they don't get into the motors of the vacuums, they I think are biased. I am not into the look of those machines as I like simple metal units. But that is me and my personal interests and attitudes that have NO bearing on what is good what is bad, just what I myself like and don't like. I like simple roundish canisters. My nilfisks which are mostly metal except one which is grey plastic I do like. it is simple in that it has no cord winder to go bad and speed controls or circuit boards. I do know about the Rainbow motor being a Switched Reluctance motor, which means that a circuit board switches on and off sequentially coils and the laminate rotor that is segmented follows the sequence. they have been around for many years. I like that idea but the computer board. Now if I was in the market for a modern vacuum like Miele or the new Nilfisks like the power or king or any vacuum I would go with the simplicity canister as I had a real nice experience with that company. nicest people I ever met. Also I think that any bad reference to their products could be sour grapes from a troll that might have been fired or whathaveyou
Back to motors. I want to design one like the Nilfisk motor I posted, but make it out of cast copper as copper is one of the best heat transfer mediums and relatively cheap and long lasting and I would love to design a vacuum cleaner made out of brass. I only have two no three simple issues to get over then I can get it done, one, money, Two, would there be buyers for my design Three, What company would build my design. Simple right? I know I will never get it done but I would love to have it made.
Back to motors. I want to design one like the Nilfisk motor I posted, but make it out of cast copper as copper is one of the best heat transfer mediums and relatively cheap and long lasting and I would love to design a vacuum cleaner made out of brass. I only have two no three simple issues to get over then I can get it done, one, money, Two, would there be buyers for my design Three, What company would build my design. Simple right? I know I will never get it done but I would love to have it made.
I just looked at your profile (Dysonman) and are you with the Company? I think the guy was named Tim. maybe it was Tom. I am terrible with names. Anyway if this is you!!! I was blown away with what you knew about a vacuum cleaner. This color means that this vacuum was made in 1950 something now if it has this color something it was made in 1954 How do you know all of this???? It is mind boggling, That is if this is you. The museum and factory was in St James. that is right.
vegassucks
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Riccar/simplicity The Truth
The truth about Riccar/simplicity is they are assembled in the United States but their parts are mainly from Korea and elsewhere. Read you labels more carefully. Their higher end units have issues with dirty motor blades breaking which could cause you to lose a motor and they do not hold up even as well as a top line Panasonic. Their clean air units are much better units but at the price they sell them you can purchase a better Panasonic.
The Riccar/Simplicity is nowhere near the quality of Sebo, Miele, Lindhaus or high end Panasonics.
The truth about Riccar/simplicity is they are assembled in the United States but their parts are mainly from Korea and elsewhere. Read you labels more carefully. Their higher end units have issues with dirty motor blades breaking which could cause you to lose a motor and they do not hold up even as well as a top line Panasonic. Their clean air units are much better units but at the price they sell them you can purchase a better Panasonic.
The Riccar/Simplicity is nowhere near the quality of Sebo, Miele, Lindhaus or high end Panasonics.
Yeah I don't know,, I just like the welcoming attitude they had, the Museum Curator that I talked too was so interested in talking to me and talked about the vacuums and they let you tour the factory. I would like to have the Nilfisk UZ930 I wonder how they fare to the ones you mentioned. I also would love to know if a company would welcome my designs. that would be awesome! I wonder if Riccar would. Or someone.
Re Motor design..
The first really high performance canister motor was a single fan design, Apex made it for their Strato Cleaner,it was great...but, it drew about 11 to 12 amps, not a problem today, but in 1953 when it came out, many houses were not wired for a appliance that drew that much power, also, if the bags were not changed often enough, it had a tendency to run hot, thus shortening its life, but as for sheer power, nothing on the market even came close from 1953 until 1958 when Sunbeam introduced the Dual Deluxe, which also was a single fan machine, and was very much the equal of the Apex.
The first really high performance canister motor was a single fan design, Apex made it for their Strato Cleaner,it was great...but, it drew about 11 to 12 amps, not a problem today, but in 1953 when it came out, many houses were not wired for a appliance that drew that much power, also, if the bags were not changed often enough, it had a tendency to run hot, thus shortening its life, but as for sheer power, nothing on the market even came close from 1953 until 1958 when Sunbeam introduced the Dual Deluxe, which also was a single fan machine, and was very much the equal of the Apex.
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