Miele S7 Hose Issue... Again!

[vacfanatic]

Well I had my S7 hose replaced under warranty back on 6/22/2009, and it's already showing symptoms of the same thing the last one did.

I'm sure the problem is the hose material and spiral coil cannot stand up to the intense suction of this cleaner. If you block off the suction at the end of the hose, let's say if you were cleaning a real sense fabric etc, this is what the hose does. It's going back to it's normal shape almost all the way, but this is what the last hose did before it was pretty much useless. I had to request a new hose when it would crush itself and remain crushed even during normal vacuuming with the cleaner. I think Miele needs to go back to the drawing board on the hose material they chose, because it's clearly an issue.

I've heard from another member that he's heard of about 3 other reports of the same problem. I think that using the crevice tool, and the turbo hand tool are what is causing the hose to "stress out". The turbo tool does not run well unless the suction is on full blast, and I think it causes too much pressure on the hose and causes it to "smush". Same thing with the crevice tool after extended use.

Won't be long before this hose is worthless like the other one was. I'm just a bit pissed that I'm having to deal with this again. Emailed Miele, we'll see what they say. I better not get some canned response from them either or this cleaner's going on eBay - I've used the cleaner maybe 12 times since I got the hose replaced, and it's already becoming an issue again. Very frustrating!!!

First pic is the replacement hose 2 months ago. Now look at it!

Andrew

 

[vacfanatic]

About 12-15 uses later...

 

[vacfanatic]

Pic

 

[vacfanatic]

Pic

 

[vacfanatic]

Already starting to sit in the cleaner cavity in a smashed fashion. Next picture shows how bad the last hose got before I had to call the dealer.

 

[vacfanatic]

First hose before it got replaced. Since the coils were always "smushed" sideways when the cleaner was on, the hose was about 5" longer than it should have been and would hardly stay in the holder on the side of the cleaner.

 

[aeoliandave]

From my engineering materials perspective, you are absolutely correct, Andrew.

I checked out the S7 at the local Canadian Tire store here this morning. It too is beginning to show signs of distortion from store demonstrations and try-outs. In order to have this hose extend and expand to the ratio Miele desired, there is far too much vinyl span between the coils that folds in when contracted. If the vinyl was a smidge thicker it would hold it's shape better but it would still close down the useful inside diameter of the hose. As it is, the compacted vinyl effectively narrows the inside diameter of the hose by 2/3rds, leaving a 3/4" to 1" dia airpath. The strong suction pulls the folded ribs against one another in domino fashion and since the spring coil is also of a lesser thickness than required, it is permanently distorted out of round over time and takes on an oval offset. This tilted offset adopts and sets that shape with continued pressure under suction the more the cleaner is used and the weak coil metal cannot resist the torsional forces twisting it over on an angle because the suction is trying to flatten the hose completely closed, like a roll of coins falling over on its sides outside the wrapper. Resulting in the collapsed condition you have experienced twice now.

As we know, this type of marvelously expanding vinyl hose under any suctional resistance other than an unrestricted nozzle or tool has a natural inclination to contract itself and pull back toward the vacuum quite forcefully when a hand is placed over the hose end throttling back the airflow.

The hose on the New Connie is of the same construction but the span between the coils is less, so this does not happen. Same for the vinyl hose on the Kenmore Premalite...they stretch out impressively and contract back to their original tubular shape without distortion. But they too try to contract themselves when the airflow is interrupted or blocked. This is a tradeoff to have an extremely flexible snaky hose that can reach all the way to the top of a flight of stairs. Miele engineers have simply taken the tradeoff a bit over the edge with too much and too thin vinyl jacketing and a cheaper weaker coil wire.

It *could* be there was a bad initial batch of Miele hose material that has 'found' its way in to overseas export S7s from the European factory and this same bad batch has been used to supply replacement hoses to the same market. I suspect a side-by-side hands-on comparison with a European spec S7 hose would make this obvious and perhaps one of our other-side-of-the-pond members could measure the inside dia of their collapsed hose and perhaps a picture down the throat to compare with US machines. I'll go back tomorrow to photograph the throat opening of the S7 at CanTire.

Miele is facing a public relations & consumer nightmare until this hose material is recalled and replaced, I'd say. Such a major flaw is inexcusable on a +$500 machine.

Below, the collapsed throat diameter of the New Constellation; by comparison the S7 hose looks lined with a 1/2" thick layer of cholesterol.
Dave

 

[aeoliandave]

Vinyl span between coils on the New Connie.

 

[vacfanatic]

Nice information!

Dave,

Thanks for covering all the real technical details which you are much more experienced and educated on that I am. All I could come up with was the term "smushed" LOL. I know that Miele will probably have to do something about this or they will surely damage their reputation as such a high end appliance manufacturer. In the meantime, I've dusted off my Kirby Ultimate G Diamond and have her ready to take over for the S7. Until the Miele engineers come up with a working replacement hose, I'm going to just park the S7. Sad... $1000 vacuum cleaner and the simplest of parts, a freaking hose, is defective.

I'm not bashing Miele, I'm just frustrated is all. Wish they had the same hose that is on my Hoover Windtunnel 2 Bagged - freaking LOVE that hose, it never smushes, and the W2 has a lot of suction like the S7 does.

Thanks again Dave for the additional details of the hose design.

-Andrew

 

[kirbyotronic]

That really sucks

I don't think I will be using the hose on my S7 very often, mainly because I prefer using canisters for "hose cleaning", and to keep the original hose in un-smushed condition! Hopefully Miele will get this fixed soon.

~Alex

 

[xraytech]

Andrew,
That sucks that you are having this problem again, I would have expected more from such an expensive vacuum.
Is there any way that you may be able to return it?

Sam

 

[vacfanatic]

Return

I doubt they would let me return the cleaner, I bought it on Jan 3rd, 2009. I'm tempted to trade it back in for another Capricorn / SEB236 combination but we'll see how Miele responds to the hose problem first.

 

[seamusuk]

Hey Andrew, so sorry to hear about this. We expect better from Miele! I'm happy to say that I haven't had any problems with mine yet, but I've now heard from 5 people with similar problems. Miele have to sort this issue before word gets out of how widespread the fault it, and puts people off the S7 range permanently. They're already struggling to sell it in the numbers they had hoped; they really don't need this issue on top of that!

Don't give up yet, though! Aside from the hose, as frustrating as that is, the S7 is a wonderful cleaner, and I think you'd miss it if you traded it in!!

 

[seamusuk]

(Oops, forgot I was signed in as Seamus on his laptop; this is Jack, hehe!)

 

[aeoliandave]

Aw shucks, Andrew, smushed is the perfect succinct descriptive of what that hose is doing to itself. Ever curious, I wanted to analyze exactly why this is happening - a combination of inadequate coil wire material chosen, not up to the task's torsional forces and a severely reduced throat diameter - gradual smush.

Rather than contact Customer Support I would follow the links all the way to the top of Miele USA and make a big disappointment noise. I'm sure they are hearing plenty of noise back at corporate from the dealers getting returns of an otherwise excellent upright cleaner.

Consumers need to take the Bull by the horns and let corporate Miele know we are not satisfied about this hose but we love the S7. Because Miele so proudly trumpets their exhaustive testing procedures we must get them to acknowledge that the hose is defective from it's inception, a better hose (like the New Connie) is the easy fix and they must get these new hoses on to the new S7 production line and into the hands of previous buyers quickly and with apologies.

It is not the franchised dealers' fault but they are the ones getting the flak while Corporate dithers away sending out in-stock replacement hoses with the same problem. One would hope Miele has a fix in the works but they certainly aren't advertising it. :-(

You can be sure Corporate knows all too well they have a problem with this lemon of a hose. Wouldn't it be nice if they would swallow their pride and contact every purchaser of an S7 and make it right? Well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say.

Later today when I have pictures of the S7 throat diameter I'm going to email my own letter of complaint and analysis to Miele Corporate in Canada and the USA and wait for whatever response I get. I don't even own an S7 yet but they don't need to know that. I feel the S7 series is a future collectible and I hope to have one one day...but not with a defective hose.

Dave

http://miele.com/usa/about_us/index.asp?nav=5&snav=5&tnav=5&oT=18

 

[samotronic]

I agree Dave. I do own an S7. I don't have the hose problem, but it is going back to the dealer later today to have the bag mechanism repaired that came off when I changed the bag. I will ask what they are hearing about this hose problem here in the Pittsburgh area. And I will write to corporate about it as well.

Andrew, this is a shame. You were one of their most satisfied and proud customers even having gone through this once. I remember commenting to you that you were a very good sport about that first time. More that I would have been. Fortunately your alternate vac is nothing to scoff at. LOL.

Chris

 

[aeoliandave]

Ok, here's picture proof of what's wrong with the choice of S7 hose vinyl...it's too thin to hold it's ring shape as it expands and you can see how deep the inner fold protrudes into the airstream. I compared to every other stretchy vinyl hose vacuum brand in Can Tire and every one of the others is thicker vinyl with a lesser span between coils and does not exhibit this wrinkled effect as you pull the hose out.

 

[aeoliandave]

And here is what Canadian Tire/Miele has to crow about their build quality and 5 YEAR COMPLETE WARRANTY!

Go demand your consumer rights, all S7 owners.

Dave, really quite annoyed now.

 

[eurekaprince]

The hose on the new Constellation indeed has a similar probl

But it happened in China well before I opened the box here in Canada.

When I saw that the Hudson Bay department store was deep-discounting the new stainless steel Constellation, I bought one for me and one for a friend. The Bay was originally selling these for CAD400.00, but it dropped to a beautiful CAD180.00 at some point, and I could not resist. Though Consumer Reports rated it poor for carpet cleaning (because it only comes with an air-driven turbo rug nozzle), it rated all other aspects as excellent, including air-flow through the hose and filtration. Since I use my classic Eureka upright on carpets, this was going to make a fine companion for all other cleaning.

When I opened both boxes, I was really angry to see that both hoses were "smushed" just like these Miele's! It looked like both were taken from the bottom of the pile of hoses the packer was using to fill his Constellation boxes back in TTI-land in China. No matter how much you stretched them, the hose contracted into the "smushed" state. It may have even happened after the hoses were placed in the carton. They both were not wrapped around the Constellation bases as they should have. Instead, they were sitting in the cardboard tool tray at the top of the box, but "folded" in half and squished into a corner. This is what may have caused the deformations.

I brought both hoses back to the store with my receipts and got two replacements which were much better. I was not going to accept mediocre equipment on Day One of using a brand new vac - no matter how inexpensive.

Wishing you much luck with Miele. This will be a real test of how responsive the company is to consumers' needs.

Eurekaprince Brian