Miele - old S5 vs new S6 / S8

[polvere]

Hey guys, how would you compare a Miele S5 series (no longer in production I believe), to a model of the newest series: S6 / S8?

I can't decide whether to get an S5212 that I found in a store in my city for 180€, or shop online for an S8 or S6 model.

Let me say that i had them all 3 in my hands at the store and they all seem very well built.
From what I know the S8 series was introduced to replace the S5, so the S6 shouldn't even compare in terms of quality, or should it?
Also, the S5 series was introduced back in 2000 (that's what i've read somewhere), and, since 14 years ago vacuums were built better, the S5 would be superior, or not?

Please share your knowledge, i'm very confused and I want to make a good buy

 

[DesertTortoise]

I don't know these particular Miele modls but I would not always assume the new model is better than what it replaced. Read the discussion of the Aerus Lux Guardian Platinum for an example of this. I don't think anyone feels the current iteration of the Kenmore Progressive is better than the last, especially the funky unique to that model tools Kenmore adopted with the latest version of the Progressive.

Do you have a favorite vacuum repair shop? Talk to someone in the industry that knows these vacs from working on them. They will know which model is better.

 

[ctvacman]

For starters the s8 line is the replacement for the s5 line basically. Supposedly better all around. The s6 line is straight suction only ( doesn't appeal to me). I would say get the s8 uniq if you can afford it, I like having all my controls on the handle or at least to turn the main unit and PN on and off. It just b
Econes a matter of options they all use the same motor.

 

[sebo_fan]

Here are my thoughts from a Miele owner...

Well, for starters, Miele in other countries differs greatly. In the UK there are no versions available with a power nozzle - you can buy a rechargeable "cordless" power nozzle but Miele would love it if you bought their S7 for that cleaning task.

The Miele S5 in the UK is still selling even though the S8 is supposed to replace it.

I own both - an S5211 Red Pearl vacuum and an S8340 Ecoline model. I previously owned an S6 Ecoline model and an S6 standard model.

The S5 replaces older Miele S700 cylinder vacs, particularly those with the bigger GN dust bag known as XXL models.

The S5 is the old flagship of the Miele vacs and thus it is heavier and has tools that you would hide under a flap on top of the body. It also uses the bigger GN style 4.5 litre dust bag.

The S6 was supposed to replace the old compact S4, so it uses the smaller FJM dust bag (3.5 litres) and does NOT have a flap under the top hood to store the tools - the three of them sit on a clip that can be unlocked and either locked in at the hose on the top of the vacuum or behind the handle.

Certainly if you want a compact super efficient vacuum, the S6 with its smaller bag will serve you well - and it also features Miele's new auto cord rewind known as "Comfort rewind," that basically requires just a tap ONCE on the pedal and the cord rewinds back in.

Personally I wouldn't bother asking anyone in the trade - they will only give you an opinion of what sells and what they might want to sell you!

The new S8 is a bit lighter to lift and pull around than the S5 in my opinion. The S8 also benefits from the auto cord comfort rewind function - one touch or tap from the foot means the whole cord goes back into the machine. The S5 requires you to keep your foot on the pedal.

Some S8 models also come with a touch longer cord than the S5. Ask me if you want to know more. I am not a dealer, but a true Miele owner.

 

[sebo_fan]

I forgot to add as well - the S6 is lighter to lift than the S5 being much smaller in size.

BUT, Miele also cap their models dependent on the models - the S2 for example uses the same larger bag as the S5 and S8 BUT comes with a shorter hose, shorter power cord length, external clip on tool holder and isn't as well made as either the S5, S6 and S8 in my opinion.

I am including this rather funny video that you might have seen before. It reiterates the Miele auto cord rewind pedal, which this man doesn't know he has his hand placed on it and gets rather annoyed that the cord won't stay out... it always gets me in stitches.

 

[polvere]

Ty for the reply Sebo.

Since you own an S5211 and an S8340, which correct me if I'm wrong, were probably the same price when you bought them. Which one satisfied you the most? I'm talking about general quality, reliability, and overall personal experience.

As I said the one that I've found at the store for 180€ (nice price i believe) is a S5212, so it shouldn't be verry different from the S5211 that you have.

The decision to make is: get the S5 for 180€, or shop online and get an S6 for the same price or an S8 adding 40/50€

 

[sebo_fan]

Consider your home's needs first....

Well it really depends on your needs. If you have a medium to large home, the S5 would be an ideal choice. The S8 is merely a new machine that uses the same design blue print with only a few changes to make life easier - the variable control dial on the S5 AND S6 has been replaced by memory buttons on the S8. I adore that feature. I leave the machine in the second setting most of the time and when I switch it off and use it the next time, the S8 remembers what setting I left the vacuum in.

It isn't really that different to leaving a manual dial in the same selection.

The S5 is a bit heavier than the S8 - 7.7kg versus 7.1kg and I found recently that my Miele S8 appears to have a 7.5 metre power cord length from machine main body entrance to the plug. The S5 has 1 metre less of cord stretch.

The S6 is lighter than both of them but isn't as well made IMHO as the S5 or the new S8. (Here is where the SEBO K1 series comes in, which is far better than the Miele S6 in terms of build and ease of use).

The Miele S6 is also smaller in terms of dust bag capacity and slighter smaller body size. Although I'm a fan of the previous S4, the only thing that the S6 has that I like is the comfort auto rewind pedal. I'm not keen on the external tool holder - some of the tools used to fall off quite regularly either in use, moving the vac around my home and sometimes in storage when I just put the vacuum away and the hose would touch one of the tools, bringing them off the holder. That's the compromise you go with and the S6 doesn't have as many external bumpers to save it from scrapes etc.

For overall cleaning satisfaction, both the S5 and S8 are better than the S6 in my opinion.

The S8 however is the better deal for me - my home requires multiple cleaning needs. At cost the S5211 was £200 whilst the S8340 cost me £249, paying extra for the tools and the upgraded Active Air Clean filter.

Im not sure what the deal is in Italy but in the UK you can buy separate tools and upgradeable filters singularly.

 

[sebo_fan]

Also don't forget the new EU law...

Also this is a great time to consider ANY of Miele's vacuums especially outgoing S8 models because by pricing alone, they SHOULD BE CHEAPER because of the EU law.

Newer models have already been released on the market with a low watt motor. The outgoing 2200 watt models have also been reduced in price somewhat - so you can get a base model S8 with the older higher output motor if you don't mind the threat of "poor efficiency."

Im not a fan of these new EU Laws. I can see their value on paper in some respects, but I don't see long term savings to be honest and some of the ratings are far fetched.

I can have the lowest appliances in my home, rarely use power and rarely use the heating unless Scotland goes into freezing days (which happens regularly!) and my power bills are always far too high regardless of the efficiency of the appliances.

 

[DesertTortoise]

No versions with a powered floor brush in the UK? Hmmm, why is that? It seems like an essential feature for even a mid priced model to offer. I could not clean my home adequately without one.

Just my experience but the more controls a manufacturer puts on the handle, the more problems you have in the future, and they are problems that can be time consuming to diagnose. Same thing for hoses that swivel in the handle. Sliding contacts in close proximity to dirt isn't a recepi for reliability. I am not a huge fan of swiveling hoses or any kind of digital anything on a device that is always hot and dirty. Just my experience, minimal analog controls seem to stand up longer. A sliding cover over an opening in the handle is all the suction control I ever need. Simple and reliable. I have a multi speed vacuum sitting right now for lack of the correct speed control switch. The vac has a fresh motor and is otherwise ready to go but until I can source the switch it sits. Things like that are frustrating.

Sorry Sebo Fan has no one in the vacuum biz he can trust for advice. Maybe I'm just lucky but I know a two people who sell vacuums and repair who are honest and don't feed me marketing BS. If something is crap they say so. They work on vacs day to day, get their hands dirty in their guts and know which ones stand up and which one's don't. Find someone like that, they are worth their weight in gold. They are out there.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, the UK and U.S are different...

I do wish you'd realise that the U.S is not worldwide in every vacuum cleaner market approach.

Similarly we have very few independent shops now that deal in repair and sales because the overheads to keep a shop open, let alone the cost of spares and hiring staff is no longer cost effective. The Internet has paid to that based on cheaper prices right across the board.

In the UK cylinder vacs have also traditionally been sold as a lighter "above the floor" cleaning device. There is no need for any PN floor head. This is where the upright vacuum cleaner comes in.

Furthermore, and thanks to my handle-name on here, at least SEBO sell cylinder vacuums with an electric power nozzle for buyers in the UK and worldwide. As the owner of the K3 Premium, I haven't had a problem with the electric handle or the slider control in the 7 or so years I have owned that model.

A known problem with SEBO are the pigtail plugs that go between the handle and the connection plug. In time that will surely be resolved - but nope, I have never had a problem with the handle or the controls on the handle, and very few other owners who have reported online seem to have a problem with the handle's controls, either.

Good for you on having people in the trade who don't rip you off, however. I can't speak for the same in the UK. Too many sellers who don't know what they are selling and half the time don't really care, unless they make a sell is an aspect that happens all the time in UK franchises.

One also has to bear in mind, that whilst you may well have a good repairer or seller who won't rip you off, you can't exactly speak for the many Average Joe customers who walk into a shop looking for a vacuum cleaner. Not all sellers have a pessimistic view, but not all sellers are honest either.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Eh, vac shops are not abundant here either. Big box retailers cut heavily into their business, but there are enough high end brands out there that do not sell through big retailers to keep a few dedicated vac shops in business. You have to cultivate the owners a bit to get them to open up. It's a little dance you do. They have to trust you before they can be really open. It's that way in any kind of business.

I personally haven't had most of the problems that plague many vacs but I imagine it's only a matter of time before I do on a couple of mine. You can read the gripes of owners in reviews on Consumer Reports and other similar journals to see what fails on what. My general experience has been that the simpler something is the less there is to fail, whether it's a car, a motorcycle or a vacuum. I'm not sold on the utility or necessity of much of the automation on many home appliances, just like I view power windows and power door locks as a complete waste on a car. I don't need them, I can lock a car by hand just fine. I have cars with these only because that is the only way they are sold not, but I resent it and the problems I have with switches that quit, balky window lifts or door locks that quit working. Same thing with vacuums. Maximize suction,airflow and agitation but minimize everything else.

 

[sebo_fan]

Its that way in any kind of business.

Um not quite.

Realistically that may have happened before the age of the Internet.

Nowadays buyers seldom visit a retailer FIRST. Most of the world are in a recession. The auction sites are making lots of money from this, as are Gumtree/Craigslist etc. Buyers know the phrase "mark up" and "cost effective" now. They weren't aware of those phrases twenty years ago.

Lots of sellers try the little dance, but most UK consumers have been taught to haggle. If they don't haggle then they don't get their way. Others don't stand for the high sale tactics.

One aspect that I will agree on is that because of the Internet, online reviews do boost individual opinions, but not all change the minds on buyers decisions. Some do and some don't.. Some can't be bothered to read a worded review or watch a video.

But at the same time with the way that the Internet rapidly eliminates wasting time in a shop listening to sales patter, buyers are no longer being allowed to be conditioned into what they should be using as a vacuum cleaner in the home.

 

[tolivac]

What the Internet CAN'T do:::Instant delivory-you see and try the vacuum at the dealer-you like it-buy and take it right home to use.No waiting or computer fiddly diddly hassle.If the machine develops a problem-you can take it back to the dealer to be fixed-try that on the Internet--You have to pack the thing,pay for the shipping--and wait while you don't have your vacuum.The dealer can give you advice and help on cleaning matters-and they can offer you additional tools you need.Internet can't do that.I have bought only a few things thru the internet-prefer going to the store.Just more satisfying.And--the vac dealer can help you with your collection!He can offer his trade ins to you!Another thing the internet Can't do!

 

[polvere]

So guys, I ended up getting the S5212 at the store for 170€.
The final choice was between this and S6 (s6310) which also costed 170€ but on amazon. I excluded the S8 because the cheapest model was 230€.

After comparing the S5 and the S6 side by side at the store, I have to say that the S5 gave me the impression to be just slightly better assembled and more solid.

One thing that bothers me though is the fact that on my S5212 there is no indication on where it's made, neither on the box or on the vacuum. I'd like to know if it's german or chinese.

Thanks everyone for the advices!

 

[DesertTortoise]

You aren't catching my drift. I will cultivate a person who seems knowledgeable repairing an item I have that is valuable, whether it is a contractor who makes repairs/alterations to my house, an auto or motorcycle mechanic or a vacuum repair tech. It takes a little time and a few purchases from them for them to get to trust you and open up a bit. You are sizing them up at the same time. Like I said, it's a little dance. They have to trust you as much as you come to trust them, but then they open up and tell you the truth. You develop a working relationship with them and they steer you away from poor choices. Not every shop will do this but usually you can find one that does. You'll laugh but showing up on a Friday afternoon with a six pack of good quality microbrew beer while bringing the shop a little business, maybe a repair, maybe you need a new tool, whatever, goes a long way to break the ice.

 

[sebo_fan]

Oh well done on the S5 purchase!

Polvere - As far as I know the S5 has always been made in Germany. Only a few S4 models were made in China and they're the predecessor of the S6..

Hope you enjoy the S5212; it's a great model and has everything you will need on board. It is heavier than the S6 but at least you benefit from a bigger dust bag that should last 2 to 3 months or even longer dependent on the dust in your home.

As for you, DT - you aren't catching my drift either. Even when I lived in some British cities, finding a reliable repairer was difficult. They have moved out and most have moved on, only some independents offering repairs on more modern vacs like Dyson because that's what is popular.

Not all UK cities lack independent repairers of course, but depending on the brand you buy, some models are easy to repair yourself depending on the fault.

 

[DesertTortoise]

It takes two to tango Sebo_fan. I have to drive 90 miles one way to the vacuum shop I like. The guy has been working on vacuums since he was a kid. For my BMW bikes I drive about 150 miles one way. One way. It's an all day adventure. The guy was a tech in research at BMW who built and tested the prototypes of two of the bikes I own. His knowldege is priceless to me. It depends I guess on how much you value someone elses advice. You seem pretty self assured. Maybe you don't need any advice. Just saying .............

 

[sebo_fan]

Well I tell you what DT, since you seem to think you know everything including shops and seller/repairers in the UK, Find me a UK independent repairer who can sell me or at least repair my old Hoover Junior 1346A with the requirement of the same soft bag that it originally came with. I bet you'll find it difficult.

Similarly, many owners of existing old vacuums would find it even harder to find spares WITHOUT auction sites like EBAY and others that offer components that can lengthen the service life.

Maybe I don't need advice, but it is not up to you to question whether I do or don't.

 

[DesertTortoise]

It must suck to live in Scotland. The vacuum shops here frequently have stuff I cannot easily find on ebay. One of my gems, the white 4.5, came from the guys junk pile. Used wands fetch two bucks in his shop. He has a selection too. Price them on ebay. Same thing for tools. Nice European floor brushes for $16, no shipping charge and no waiting for the UPS man to deliver it. Used tools for a buck or two, depending. Powermate parts on a shelf in the back of the shop. Hoses everywhere. If you have a vac you cannot find a bag for, say the right bag is discontinued or you want to adapt a HEPA bag to an older vac, he'll let you try bags in his stock till you find something that fits. Can't do that on ebay either. He saved me certain disaster when he caught that the new brushes I bought for an old motor were delivered defective, the metal casing was too close to the commutator and had I installed them the motor would have been ruined. Says that is a problem he is seeing with all the new brushes he is receiving. Ebay wouldn't have saved me from that calamity. The man is worth his weight in gold, and certainly worth the 180 mile round trip.

But like I said it takes two to tango. You've already retreated from the dance floor. I still have a few steps left in me I guess.