Main Equivalency! Which one would you take?

[royalfan103]

A poll without unsubstantiated claims mixed in as "context". I also added in an option for another brand. Mine would be the Perfect C105B. A canister from an emerging brand on the commercial market.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Much better options. I chose 'other' since I prefer a central vacuum for most things, and so if I were to get a cordless I would want it to be able to run off of my existing tool batteries instead of having a dedicated one just for the vacuum. I currently use Makita 18 V LXT, so that would probably have me choosing the XLC04ZBX4.

 

[cheesewonton]

I chose other. Among modern production vacuums I would choose the Kenmore 600 Series canister, specifically the purple 81614 version. I have one and it is the best canister vacuum Kenmore has ever made, and I have examples of pretty much all their bagged canisters going back to the 1940s.

 

[cheesewonton]

If the criteria includes vintage stuff then I would choose what I consider to be the best vacuum ever made by any company, the Lux 1R D820, shown here between my Electrolux ( USA ) Epic 8000 and a Royal Lux D795. Quieter and more powerful than either Miele I have and much better built.

 

[cheesewonton]

Found some images of our Kenmore 600. You can see I made a custom adapter to put a standard central vacuum style hard floor brush on the big diameter Kenmore wands. I made it from the swivel neck of another Kenmore power nozzle and the bottom of a bent up button lock wand cut off, glued and riveted into the cut down swivel neck. The 600 is a really well made and well thought out vacuum. The attachments are really nice and the Pet Powermate is so much better than an air driven turbo brush. Materials, fit and finish are miles ahead of any Progressive model. Kenmore hit the nail on the head with this one.
The vintage Panasonic next to it might be the next best vacuum to that Lux 1R D820. Same power, very nearly as quiet and just as well built. Another all time great vacuum.

 

[centralsweeper63]

My vote goes to a central vacuum with two 7.2 invh diameter motors. My dads setup has a high efficency cyclone then a central vacuum international bag unit before the main md power unit. Still piulls sawdust 1 inch from the front and 1.5 inches of each side with a wessel werk rd285 on the end of a 30 foot hose.

 

[herbicide]

Cost no option? Oversized central system with chameleon hose system and Lindhaus L-ion brush roller for carpet head.

More budget friendly option: (modern) Sebo or Miele Canister with electric powered brush roller.

 

[vgwpg]

My vote goes to a central vacuum with two 7.2 invh diameter motors. My dads setup has a high efficency cyclone then a central vacuum international bag unit before the main md power unit. Still piulls sawdust 1 inch from the front and 1.5 inches of each side with a wessel werk rd285 on the end of a 30 foot hose.

The dual 7.2s are my favourite setup!

 

[vgwpg]

I really should have chosen “other,” but of the options, I’d probably choose the Lupe, if they still made it. (Since I know the initial post was kind of referring to cordless vacuums.) So I chose that.
I don’t think I’d ever get a Dyson Piston. The Kirby is a fantastic cleaner, but just too cumbersome for my liking. I like being able to quickly detach the floor nozzle to get in crevices. The Samsungs are nice, but I thought that the Lupe had better repairability and parts availability while it was around, which was is big deal for me.

However, out of all vacuums, without a doubt, I would go with a good central vacuum.
If I were to choose another cordless vacuum, I’m not sure. There are pros and cons to all of them.

Of course, that’s just my personal opinion though.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Here is an image of my dad's units.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

@royalfan103 oh my god, please, you didn't have to repeat my thread!

 

[Hatsuwr]

@royalfan103 oh my god, please, you didn't have to repeat my thread!

I did suggest that you remake your thread early on and remove your biases and opinions from the poll options. This thread is much better since it keeps the poll relatively neutral.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I did suggest that you remake your thread early on and remove your biases and opinions from the poll options. This thread is much better since it keeps the poll relatively neutral.

Well, this thread doesn't have any of the context of the original. It's also not as detailed.

 

[SeboU1]

I like Kirby, but I only use them when I want to clean thoroughly. You can’t get much better than a Sebo or Lindhaus. I look for quality in a vacuum and most of the options do not fit the criteria. I have been disappointed with every cordless vacuum, so I’m sticking with the corded models.

 

[Hatsuwr]

I like Kirby, but I only use them when I want to clean thoroughly. You can’t get much better than a Sebo or Lindhaus. I look for quality in a vacuum and most of the options do not fit the criteria. I have been disappointed with every cordless vacuum, so I’m sticking with the corded models.

I know there's a lot less incentive when corded, but I do wish we'd see more brushless corded options.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I know there's a lot less incentive when corded, but I do wish we'd see more brushless corded options.

Can you guys get out and get into my thread. It's not as biased as you think, whereas this very thread completely lacks context.

 

[SeboU1]

I know there's a lot less incentive when corded, but I do wish we'd see more brushless corded options.

Indeed, I believe Rainbow is the only corded vacuum with a brushless motor currently sold. Brushless definitely has its advantages in longevity.

 

[herbicide]

I know there's a lot less incentive when corded, but I do wish we'd see more brushless corded options.

I am somewhat surprised a big brand hasn't hopped on the marketing bandwagon with these, for the sake of being able to say "no carbon brush dust."

Although if my understanding of the technology is correct, it doesn't generate much (if any?) efficiency gains at full power, but certainly does at lower or reduced powers.

 

[vacerator]

Going by the above photos, I choose the Panasonic dual sweep canister for a portable. I'm a built in VAC user.

 

[cheesewonton]

I am somewhat surprised a big brand hasn't hopped on the marketing bandwagon with these, for the sake of being able to say "no carbon brush dust."

Although if my understanding of the technology is correct, it doesn't generate much (if any?) efficiency gains at full power, but certainly does at lower or reduced powers.

US DoE testing show large gains in efficiency over commutated and slip ring motors, and the gains are largest for AC motors. AC motors use a lot of power just to generate the magnetic fields that make them spin. That is reduced for an electronically commutated motor because the armature is a permanent magnet. No windings.

 

[cheesewonton]

Indeed, I believe Rainbow is the only corded vacuum with a brushless motor currently sold. Brushless definitely has its advantages in longevity.

Electronically commutated motor with ceramic bearings. Might outlive the rest of the vacuum.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

US DoE testing show large gains in efficiency over commutated and slip ring motors, and the gains are largest for AC motors. AC motors use a lot of power just to generate the magnetic fields that make them spin. That is reduced for an electronically commutated motor because the armature is a permanent magnet. No windings.

Electronically commutated motor with ceramic bearings. Might outlive the rest of the vacuum.

1) Counts as "knockoffs"/others.
2) https://vacuumland.org/threads/pick-your-poison-main-equivalency.46775/ is the correct thread and the proper poll.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

A poll without unsubstantiated claims mixed in as "context". I also added in an option for another brand. Mine would be the Perfect C105B. A canister from an emerging brand on the commercial market.

View attachment 170457

V15 Detect are really well-received for a Dyson (your mileage may vary; f#¢k the current state of Dyson's award-winning customer service), and the power trigger wasn't too big of a problem. Gen5 is a refinement and removed the trigger. To be honest, that trigger and the extra weight are medium-level issues, neither minor nor major. I am talking about truly major problems.

@Hatsuwr consider this: any tool brand can make a dupe. That's one reason why tool brands are to be put into the cheap knockoffs. They're mere tools, and should be treated as some dupes that happens to function but not necessarily work like actual proper mains-equivalent cordless stuffs.

Another reason why I had not directly included the Stratos or PowerDetect: there's simply not enough poll choices allowed. The facts that Shark's cordless models all copied Dyson therefore put them in cheap knockoffs category.

Here's the outstanding enough to be dedicated options within that 10-option vote limit:
- Lupe Pure is pretty obvious, because it's a freaking upright. And duping technologies from Dyson as poorly as normally expected for the time, at that. Then Lupe themselves shut down...
- Samsung Bespoke Jet Ultra (and its less powerful and lighter variant, Jet Lite) are wasteful and dupe-@$$. Just look at the shape of the handheld and the main cleaner head, for example. Bulky dual brushrolls (similar to Lupe Pure), with non-powered soft roller and mid brush bar, and questionable sealing and unswept hard floors edges. The shape itself is too front-heavy even for the on-line version of the form factor that Dyson pioneered - heck, the cyclones are still 3-inlets-per-cone, which isn't too good, unlike the truly effective single-inlet-per-cone cyclones Dyson have had since even before the 5,127th prototype was made. Looking at both the old Samsung Jet review by Vacuum Facts himself as well as the RTINGS review of the Jet Ultra, and you can see why. It gets worse no matter which source (Tom's Guide thought the Ultra was perfect though...), so... yeah.
- SEBO Balance A1 looks like a poor man's V10 but likely performs like a dragged-out DC35 Digital Slim. Ditto for Dream Z30 to V15 Detect, with sloppy sensors holding it's holding nice motor back. eufy E20 tried to be both a bagless stick and a robot vac in one package, which splices up- oh no, I simply can't explain how ridiculous the compromises involved are. Henry Quick is bagged, and that enforces running cost and potential landfills, which is not worth the modern standards.
- And the most damning of all and even more obvious than even the Lupe... FACKING KIRBY! I know not all of you will like it, but Vacuum Facts is right about Kirby vacuums. They're too ancient to keep its legendary status at this point, and even ordinary dupes of Dyson's cordless mains-equivalents are able to outperform all Kirby machines in deep cleaning performance and versatility. A hunting bagged, corded trash that only belong to the first half of the 20th century, not the 21st!
- There are two Dysons as dedicated options. Dyson V8 had to catch up and is too cheap to fully allow for mains-equivalent capabilities (V8 Cyclone is the first to at least reliably come close, based on the new specs), whereas Dyson V16 Piston Animal... f#¢k Dyson's current suits for crippling that otherwise legendary machine out of the box! What a tragic mess.

@royalfan103 I'm waiting for you at the DM/private conversation.

 

[cheesewonton]

1) Counts as "knockoffs"/others.
2) https://vacuumland.org/threads/pick-your-poison-main-equivalency.46775/ is the correct thread and the proper poll.

Rainbow vacuums are nobody's "knock off". Do you even know what one is? They have been around more years than you or I or His Unholy Excremence Lord Diesoon have been alive. All those other water filtration vacuums are knock offs of Rainbow. Rainbow vacuums and the idea behind them is very very old.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Rainbow vacuums are nobody's "knock off". Do you even know what one is? They have been around more years than you or I or His Unholy Excremence Lord Diesoon have been alive. All those other water filtration vacuums are knock offs of Rainbow. Rainbow vacuums and the idea behind them is very very old.

@cheesewonton never heard of the Rainbow vacuums before. Also, why not return to my thread? It's the better thread and the better version of the same poll.

 

[cheesewonton]

@cheesewonton never heard of the Rainbow vacuums before. Also, why not return to my thread? It's the better thread and the better version of the same poll.

A full frontal display of ignorance. Maybe spend more time reading before spouting. There are people on this board who have worked in the vacuum industry probably before your parents were born. They have a lot of great information to pass along.

Rainbow is one of the oldest surviving American vacuum manufacturers and they invented the water filtration vacuum. Before HEPA filtration they probably had a pretty good claim to having superior filtration compared to other vacuums of the era except maybe the Electrolux Hospital G ( do you know what that is ? ). Thirty years ago you were lucky to have much more than a 1 mm thick piece of open cell foam for a pre-motor filter and nothing for an exhaust filter, plus a leaky paper dust bag. Or you had a cloth shake out bag upright with no paper bag inside. Yuck! A Rainbow caught more crud in the water bowl than other vacuums caught in their, cough cough, "filters" so they had a legitimate claim to superior filtration. But with the widespread adoption of HEPA filter media ( which comes from the nuclear industry btw ) by vacuum makers today even Rainbow has to have a pleated exhaust filter to be able to claim HEPA filtration. Without that pleated filter a Rainbow cannot match the filtration of a vacuum with a HEPA exhaust filter.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

A full frontal display of ignorance. Maybe spend more time reading before spouting. There are people on this board who have worked in the vacuum industry probably before your parents were born. They have a lot of great information to pass along.

Rainbow is one of the oldest surviving American vacuum manufacturers and they invented the water filtration vacuum. Before HEPA filtration they probably had a pretty good claim to having superior filtration compared to other vacuums of the era except maybe the Electrolux Hospital G ( do you know what that is ? ). Thirty years ago you were lucky to have much more than a 1 mm thick piece of open cell foam for a pre-motor filter and nothing for an exhaust filter, plus a leaky paper dust bag. Or you had a cloth shake out bag upright with no paper bag inside. Yuck! A Rainbow caught more crud in the water bowl than other vacuums caught in their, cough cough, "filters" so they had a legitimate claim to superior filtration. But with the widespread adoption of HEPA filter media ( which comes from the nuclear industry btw ) by vacuum makers today even Rainbow has to have a pleated exhaust filter to be able to claim HEPA filtration. Without that pleated filter a Rainbow cannot match the filtration of a vacuum with a HEPA exhaust filter.

Just to show how far vacuum cleaners have come, @cheesewonton

 

[herbicide]

US DoE testing show large gains in efficiency over commutated and slip ring motors, and the gains are largest for AC motors. AC motors use a lot of power just to generate the magnetic fields that make them spin. That is reduced for an electronically commutated motor because the armature is a permanent magnet. No windings.

Thank you; and now that you say this, in my mind I was thinking of DC motors.

To get into the weeds a bit specifically my mind was on battery powered hand tools; if memory serves the performance/efficiency of a brushed DC motor at full tilt isn't far off of the equivalent brushless DC motor, when you calculate the total efficiency of the system (motor + DC to AC motor/speed controller)

 

[royalfan103]

deleted post was quoted here.

You can’t tell me what to do!

 

[panasonicvac]

Indeed, I believe Rainbow is the only corded vacuum with a brushless motor currently sold. Brushless definitely has its advantages in longevity.

Yeah at least when it comes to residential vacuums, Rainbow along with it's rivals Sirena and Prolux are the only ones I can think of with digital motors being made today. If they count, some wet dry vacs like Shop Vac use a digital motor as well.

Anyways I put in other because I don't care about cordless machines in general, I do like Kirby but they're not my favorite to use.