Kirby/Rainbow

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markhenry

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Hello,

I know I asked most of what I wanted to ask in a previous thread, but I didn't know how to edit the actual heading. Since it all went in Kirby/Rainbow direction, I felt it would of been better had I titled it that way so that people that actually use/own one or the other would be able to chime in.

I have pretty much decided money wise to get a Miele C3. Seems to do a good job for $950 with HEPA filtration. Only thing is, every year a $54 HEPA filter must be replaced and a box of bags (4 bags) for $39. So essentially $100 a year running cost.

Given that... (which still works out cheaper as a rainbow/kirby here cost $4000 anyway - so there is no savings)

I'm really trying to work out down here... why would I go with a Kirby or a Rainbow instead of the Miele... as in what would I be trying to achieve by getting either the Kirby or the Rainbow instead of the Miele?

Terms of Cleanliness (cleaning the carpet from all dust/sand/cat hair etc), and terms of dust retention (which one keeps the dust to a minimum... no point sucking 100% up if 20% of it gets put back out into the air, then the vacuum only did an 80% job).

Thanks!
 
I have never had any issues with dust retention with my Kirby. (Heritage II) I have used it to vacuum up plaster dust with no obvious dust escaping the micron magic bags. And I do mean plenty of dry wall dust from sanding the walls in the kitchen I skim coated with dry wall mud.

I used the paper bag assembly on a 1CR model years ago before micron magic bags. To vacuum up the dry chemical from a fire extinguisher at one of our job sites. Again no obvious dust escaping that time either. I sucked up 80% powder on the first go round to the point the vacuum tipped over towards the bag side of the machine. Then changed the bag and went over all the carpet and vinyl tile again and filled the bag about 1/3 the second time around.

You couldn't do that with a Rainbow. My mom has the E 2 Rainbow. I used it one weekend to do a monthly deep clean. The water was just barely cloudy after vacuuming wall to wall and all the furniture. And yet the Kirby bag had plenty of dust in it from cleaning the prior weeks. The Rainbow had been in service for about 9 months and hadn't been used for any cleaning tasks that I put the Kirby's thru. There for the hepa filter and brushes on the power nozzle were still like new. My mom still uses her Kirby Omega (2CB) from 1974 on a regular basis. Even more than the Rainbow I do believe.

I prefer an upright. I grew up with Kirby's and like the plug and play aspect of it. No set up or clean up to use it to clean anything. I'm not impressed with the air flow on the Rainbow. I have used other bagged domestic canisters with far better air flow and suction.
 
My advice

Never pay retail. Everything on a door to door machine is negotiable. You can easily have a new Kirby for around $1k. Rainbow is harder to deals with due to their sales structure.

Don't forget you can get great deals on eBay. Just remember the warranty may not be honored if you didn't purchase from a dealer. You would have to weigh out if your saving could justify a self paid repair if a breakdown occurs. In most cases it would.

Best time to buy is the last week, or even last few days of the month, when dealers are trying to meet quota. Many times they will forgo commission to move a machine as that machine may make them a bonus.
 
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;">Markhenry:</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;"> </p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;">I am repeating here what I wrote in your earlier thread: </p>
 


<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;">FYI - All of the Kirby G series machines, including Avalir, are capable of using the newer Kirby HEPA bags. When using a HEPA bag in your Kirby, you will actually be cleaning the air in the room as you vacuum. </p>
 


<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;">Also, because of their massive airflow, Kirby and the newer Royal metal upright vacuums will deep clean your carpets better than any other vacuum, Upright or Canister. Kirby Avalir has won CRI's GOLD seal of approval (Royal won Silver) for cleaning ability and Air Filtration. The Miele C3 will not deep clean or filter the air as well as a Kirby can.</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;"> </p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;">Harley is correct, There is no need to pay full retail price for a Sentria II or Avalir. You can find a "Like new" Kirby for only a few hundred dollars on ebay.</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;"> </p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; border-image-outset: 0; border-image-repeat: stretch; border-image-slice: 100%; border-image-source: none; border-image-width: 1; color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: bold; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px none #000000;"> </p>
 
 
think about a Sirena

the Miele you have chosen would work well. If you want a water filtration machine, check out the Sirena. It will work as good as the Rainbow and can be gotten new for around $895. I much prefer canisters over uprights, much easier to get under things and much easier to use with attachments.
Mike
 
Kirby have Gold CRI approval...

Rainbow have the AAFA (asthma allergy thing) approval... doesn't that filter even better because of it? To get that means no dust comes out of the machine, and all youtube videos I seen of Kirby people say the room smells like dust when you turn a Kirby on... not out of the bag but the air vents down the bottom read over 100,000+ on particle tester while rainbow show 0 in comparison??

I know I don't want that dust smell in the house because that just gets all in my nose and reality is, I haven't really cleaned anything if all I did was take it out of the carpet to put it in the air... in fact its safer staying in the carpet than being in the air to breath... ?

Does Kirby have attachments/hoses so that a power nozzle etc can be used to go under the bed/on the bed, curtains, furniture and so forth like a canister vacuum?
 
Honestly, I feel both the Rainbow and the Miele are more user friendly, especially when it comes to attachment usage. I rarely if ever use the tools on a Kirby, I'll often use a suction only canister instead. The Miele and Rainbow have permanent belts and the P/Ns swivel for easier steering, and they also reach under low furniture better than the Kirby. Some find the water annoying and difficult to deal with, but I don't. I tend to prefer the Rainbow just because I like the round canister with 4 casters instead of the more typical canister design like the Miele, but they're both very good vacuum cleaners, among the best you can get.
 
Here is one of the videos I was referring too...



Over 6 digits on particle test while Rainbow shows 0.

To me it is more looking like this...

The Kirby - Lasts 30+ Years.... All the Rainbow people have rainbows that are over 30 years old and still working like new as well.

So Long Lasting - Same (give or take per individual experience)

Deep Cleaning ability - Perhaps the Kirby wins here due to its enormous air flow. Haven't seen other vacuums that provide that kind of agitation/air flow as does the Kirby...

So if I put it on a numbering system... lets say the Kirby Cleans 100% (Meaning absolutely nothing left in the carpet, not a grain of dust or sand or hair or anything) - 100% clean (Real world this is not possible, but follow the example anyway)...

Rainbow on other hand due to inferior airflow compare to the Kirby and whatever else... only cleans 80% of the carpet.

However...

Because over 6 digits on the particle test come out of the Kirby... penalty 20%... then both the Rainbow and the Kirby have 'actually' cleaned 80% of the floor, the difference being, with the Rainbow 20% of it is in the carpet while the Kirby stuck 20% of it in the air for you to breath in and get your nose blocked up with.

If this example is at all remotely accurate, it would make more sense to get the Rainbow as the Kirby isn't actually cleaning better, it picks everything up and then throws 20% of it back in the air, wouldn't it better had it stayed in the floor instead then?

Once that stuff settles, its back in the floor, where the rainbow would have left it.

This is what I am trying to work out...

As said, I would have to go on a payment plan, there is no Used options down here, I have looked the entire web for it, I'm not buying on ebay... Both are going to cost $4000 or $33 a week over 3 years on a payment plan.

I don't want to end up with a vacuum that isn't what I expected and that is why I am trying to figure this out in reality...

Rainbow Dealers tell me they worked for Kirby for 25 years and those vacuum cleaners are not what they are made out to be by the sales people, there are tricks etc used to sell the vacuum and make it 'appear' better than others... and then lean heavily on the fact that Rainbow is practically the only vacuum cleaner in the world that is AAFA approved, showing, if you want the 'cleanest' air to breath (which to me is the point of vacuuming, to keep the place clean) the Rainbow is the best vacuum cleaner. Also the Rainbow does not lose suction like the Kirby will due to the fact it hasn't got a bag.

The Kirby May clean better to start with an empty bag that isn't clogged... but a lot of that stuff is put back in the air, which again means it is not cleaning better than the rainbow and once the bag starts filling up, it will actually clean less so than the rainbow "and still put stuff in the air" which means now it is actually cleaning worse.

On the other hand, Kirby people say that is all a load of rubbish and was only the case with older designs, now with HEPA etc... it isn't the case (However that video says otherwise?)...

So as you can see... with the price tag etc... I don't wanna get one... and then regret the fact I'm gonna be stuck paying it off for 3 years because "I should have gotten the other one - it actually worked better"
 
Remembering that the producer of this video

Is a dealer for Miele, you need to put his credibility into question.

In his testing he had a zero with the Kirby at the bag, this is when he decided to go to the cooling ports to make his point.

At the cooling port you are seeing maybe carbon dust from the motor, but also dust from the ambient air. I find this rather prejudice on the presenter's part, and did call him out for such on youtube. These particles are not a result of poor filteration by the Kirby bag system, and as other post have also pointed out. This particle counter is for air cleaners not vacuums.


It Think Mike/nOoxy gave you good advice about looking at a Sirena if you are interested in a water filter machine. Sirena, and Rainbow are not perfect in the water filter department; both have to employ a HEPA after filter to show you clean air, and after it has been used for awhile you will see emissions, as well as performance drops.
 
Do you have any family or friends that own one of the newer Kirby's? If so borrow the vacuum and try it out. The only way you will ever be able to make any kind of decision is with first had experience.

I find the test mentioned above to be skewed in my opinion. The side vent is the air coming from the motor cooling fan. There for there is more air being introduced into the particle counter. Unlike around the bag the counter is drawing in the sample air rather than having the air forced into the counter like at the motor cooling vent.

We have all seen the Infomercials that demonstrate that the vacuum they are selling is far superior to a Kirby for example. We have all called it out that the competing vacuum wasn't set up properly and there for failed. One of the collectors here called out QVC on one of their sales pitches. They put a Shop vac up against a shark upright. Two totally different machines. He managed to get on air and told them and the public watching that the shop vac was obviously clogged up. Needless to say he got cut off. And the QVC people apologized for his comments that they had no control over.

Bottom line: Try out the machines you are interested in first. There is some one out there with that machine available at a price you are willing to pay. The local vacuum shops take trade ins of all makes and will resell at a good price.
 
Do you have any family or friends that own one of the newer Kirby's? If so borrow the vacuum and try it out. The only way you will ever be able to make any kind of decision is with first had experience.

I find the test mentioned above to be skewed in my opinion. The side vent is the air coming from the motor cooling fan. There for there is more air being introduced into the particle counter. Unlike around the bag the counter is drawing in the sample air rather than having the air forced into the counter like at the motor cooling vent.

We have all seen the Infomercials that demonstrate that the vacuum they are selling is far superior to a Kirby for example. We have all called it out that the competing vacuum wasn't set up properly and there for failed. One of the collectors here called out QVC on one of their sales pitches. They put a Shop vac up against a shark upright. Two totally different machines. He managed to get on air and told them and the public watching that the shop vac was obviously clogged up. Needless to say he got cut off. And the QVC people apologized for his comments that they had no control over.

Bottom line: Try out the machines you are interested in first. There is some one out there with that machine available at a price you are willing to pay. The local vacuum shops take trade ins of all makes and will resell at a good price.
 
Thanks for feedback.

Unfortunatelly being international, there are hardly any distributors around. Only 1 in my town, next one 500miles away.

No shops down here will have any of them. Best I can do is schedule an in home demo with either. But doing that, both will clean exceptional compare to the junk we are using from Amway, S2000 upright. As soon as that vacuum is turned on my nose gets tingly from the dust that goes straight in it. That is what I wanted to avoid.

Does the rainbow do a poor cleaning job? I looked up some threads on here and I havent found anyone to complain as to the performance, clean fresh smell left behind etc from anyone.

Is this a case of Mercedes vs BMW where people in both camps will say the other one 'isnt as good' but in reality both work as good as eachother and last as long, or is there a real performance difference between the two vacuums where you would feel ripped off getting one over the other?

As I said before... both kirby and rainbow will cost me the same price (whatever price that ends up being)... if the kirby cleans better, filters the air while vacuuming so that it doesnt smell like dust etc... then a rainbow is not worth buying. Why spend the same exact coin on a vacuum that does less with no benefit? Same as in vice versa situation.

If the Kirby was like $5000 and the rainbow was $2000, then I would think the Kirby is clearly better but hey for the price difference... the rainbow is good enough.

Both of them cost identical though, not different, so there is no price advantage to get one that is good enough compare to th better one thats more expensive. So in this case Why should I buy one over the other since they do cost the exact same amount? Is there a clear performance advantage of one over the other, or is this splitting hairs and using either vacuum will clean up everything in the house properly, they are just different to use/maintain?
 
I have to weigh in on this

A Kirby is heavy, awkward and clumsy...BUT they will out clean any clean air machine made, a open face fan moves volumes more air than the best clean air system, this is why Hoover Convertibles, old Kirbys and Royals and Eureka uprights out clean Dial A Matics etc
 
A Rainbow

Will not move the amount of air a Kirby will even if the Kirby is half full of dirt.Try a Baird Airflo Meter and see!
 
With regard to the video clip of the Kirby test, I think the guy works for a dealer that sells Miele. I have seen him do a Sebo vs. Miele canister review and he gave the thumbs up, by a hair, to the Sebo. So although he likes Miele, I think he is capable of liking other products as well.

Surely there are other members who are affiliated with manufacturers that have a bias towards said manufacturer.
 

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