Kirby model 2C help needed

[bikerray]

Answer

NO

A 505 front bearing is an 87500

Also, when you put the 2C back together did you lift up on the projection from the handle fork yoke?

If you didn't the bearing plate will not screw down evenly, which would cause the armature to bind. The projection rests on the edge of the bearing plate.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

kirby note

I did test it twice but the motor runs very slow, not normal and even the fan and armature spins slowly in the opposite direction, when I turn the motor on. The bearings are fine as there's no bad play, everything spins freely and everything is properly aligned and assembled. I really think it's something with the electrical, but the thing is, it was working fine before it took it apart to polish, when I tested it. Maybe I didn't connect all the electrical wiring, like to the foot switch and the brush holders, to the proper sport. If so, I must correct it. I think hooking up the copper u clips for the rear wires, to the field is easy to me, but which way or orientation should I connect the wiring to the foot switch. How should I connect the foot switch wiring correctly for a Kirby 2C. The only thing is there's no indication of any black or white wiring, since I know white goes with white and black goes with black, for a proper electrical connection.
From Liam

 

[bikerray]

If the fan is spinning in the opposite direction then you have the wires to the carbon brushes reversed.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

I was right. The wiring to both carbon brush holders was positioned in the opposite direction, which caused the motor to run in reverse and not normal. So I changed the position again by rotating the field around by 90 degrees. I rotated the field around and switched the position of the wiring that goes to the carbon brushes. So hopefully they are in the proper orientation and I hope that I fixed the issue and that my Kirby 2C motor will run in the proper direction. The armature is supposed to spin in the same direction as the angle of the fan blades. That should fix the issue.
From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

quick question

Are Kirby 2C bearings supposed to have washers and spacers? My 2C bearings, front and rear, do not have any washers on the rear side. Was there a washer that fitted into the groove of the rear side of each bearing, For a Kirby 2C?
From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

Does anyone have spare original Kirby 2C rear wheels, they were thinner than 505 rear wheels. I think the front wheels to my 2C are original, since they were similar to the front wheels of a Kirby 505, but the rear ones are not original and are from a 505-515. Just curious.
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

Ask

Thomas to ask Mike for wheels for you. I'm pretty sure he does but you and Thomas seem to get along and please don't email me asking . Thomas can likely help you out. Tell him I told you to ask him.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

Thanks, will do, have a great day.
From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

Oh one last thing to bikerray, I rotated the field around clockwise and switched the carbon brush wires around. However, once I reassembled everything and tested the motor, the same thing happened, where the motor ran extremely slow and in reverse. I need to know what orientation is the field supposed to be placed in, so that the armature and fan can spin in the proper direction. Which way are the wires for the carbon brush holders supposed to go? Do they both go where the wires face up, one face up and the other faces down, vise versa, or do they both face down? Which wire goes to what carbon brush holder? How is the wiring supposed to be positioned to make the motor run in the proper direction? I Do Not Know?
From Liam

 

[vacmadman]

Kirby 2C wheels

The 2C did not come with 2 different size wheels they were set up the same as the Kirby C with all 4 thinner wheels. You can buy new wheels that are a very close match to the original wheels. Pictured is my 2C with two of the new wheels and two original. Picture #3 shows the original wheels. You can buy the new wheels on eBay. In picture #4 shows the new and original wheels the axle of the new wheels did need to be ground down to fit properly.

Side note: These are aftermarket parts but these are as close as you will find to the original wheels, until you can get originals ones just something to consider. [this post was last edited: 2/23/2023-09:04]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3346500296...optCZ7AodEZn7vgHuencbVbQoH6TjWGNRB1LQ0OWOsAE6

 

[repairman]

VacMadMan

I never thought of using the inner side of those wheels. They're aftermarket and I can still get them from a vac supplier. They would've replaced the rear wheels of the Classic 1CR, Omega, & Classic III.

 

[lesinutah]

You

Have to cut the inner lip flush with the width of the tire or the wheels won't fit.
I told Thomas you'd be getting a hold of hi.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

I did recently contact Thomas today, about me needing 2C wheels. I'm now waiting for a reply.
Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

side note

If anyone can look at the previous post I did, before post 41, I mentioned how I'm not sure on which way the wiring for the carbon brush holders are supposed to go as well as the position of the field. I need to know which way the wiring goes in order for my Kirby 2C motor to run in the proper direction and not in reverse. I had everything reversed and I'm trying to correct the issue, but unsure on which position, orientation the field and wires to the carbon brushes are supposed to go, for my motor to spin in the right direction. I need some help, please. If bikerray or someone can help tell me what I need to do and how to position the field, in the right way, that would be great.
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

Rotate

The field 180 degrees. Make sure the wires are connected to the carbon brush inserts. It's hard to give directions with no pictures.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

kirby note

Here are the photos of my 2C motor currently, they are for reference. Now you can see and give me more help.
Thanks From Liam

 

[bikerray]

Ok, the field is in correctly

Looking at it from the front

The lead from the bottom field goes to the right carbon brush holder
The lead from the top field goes to the left carbon brush holder

 

[bikerray]

Question

If you did rotate the field 90 degrees as you stated.
How did you cram it back into the housing?
The field coils would have hit the carbon brush holders.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

I was wrong, when I first reassembled my Kirby 2C, a made a mistake and put the field in upside down, which I reversed the wiring connections to the carbon brush holders. That's why the motor ran so slow and in reverse when I tested it, before I took it apart again to fix the issue. As a side note, I wrote down which lead from the field goes to which carbon brush holder. Bottom goes with right and top goes with left. Just one last question, What way should the field itself be inserted into the motor housing? I took it out again to reposition yesterday, but haven't put it back in yet. I now know how to properly connect the wiring to the carbon brush holders.
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

If

Your 90 degrees is referring to my directions surely you misread. I said 180 degrees. If you rotate 180 degrees changing the location the bottom of the coil connector to the carbon brushes.
Liam the side that has the coil where the wires are on the bottom of the coil.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

I did connect the field wires to the carbon brush holders correctly. The bottom wire of the bottom field coil, goes to the right carbon brush holder and the top wire of the top field coil, goes to the left carbon brush holder. I did take the motor to a expert vacuum repairman at a local vacuum store. He reassembled everything, except for the wiring connections to the foot witch assembly, that has yet to be looked at since I was the one who connected them myself, before I took it in for a look. The foot switch was already assembled by me, before I took the motor to the vacuum store. He then tested the vacuum and the same thing happened, the motor ran very slow, slower than normal. He and I decided that the issue with the running of the motor is now not the field wiring to the carbon brushes, which has been corrected, but rather the electrical connections and wiring hook ups to the foot switch assembly. Does anyone think that maybe the real cause of the issue, is the wiring connections of the foot switch. Are the wiring connections to the foot switch hooked up in the wrong way, in reverse? If so, how should I properly connect the wires to the foot switch. All I know is 2 wires go to the headlight harness and the other 2 go to both field coils, but one of them goes into the safety switch assembly. How should I connect the wires properly, since there are no black and white colors of wiring, all wires are just black.
From Liam, I will post pictures as soon as possible.

 

[lesinutah]

The

The safety wires have positive and negative. The headlight has positive and negative. The coil has positive and negative. Connect the positives together and connect the negatives together. When you turn the power on if the headlight comes on, brush roll spins and everything that powered up powers off when you flip the switch its wired correctly.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

update

Here are photos of what could be at fault. I need help on how to correctly connect all wiring to the foot switch assembly.
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

The last picture

The wires on the left with copper probably go on the terminal opposite the power prongs. The right 2 wires in pic for connect to the connection closest to the power prongs.
When you turn it on un hook the belt and the brush roll. This will make the motor spin faster.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

Are you saying that the two copper wires for the headlight harness actually go together and connect to the terminal opposite of the power prongs and the other two wires with silver looking copper, the one safety switch wire and the one field wire, also go together and connect at the terminal, closest to the power prongs. If I am correct, than that is the entire reason why my Kirby 2C motor was running so slow, because of the wiring being hooked up the wrong way to the foot switch assembly.
From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

idea

If I were to put the two headlight wires together and connect them to the bottom terminal, opposite to the power prongs and the other wires, the silvery looking copper wires, one goes to the field and the other to the safety switch, connect them to the top terminal closest to the power prongs, will this make my motor run properly and a lot faster than it did? Is this the proper way to connect the wiring to the foot switch, so that the motor will run a lot faster than it was?
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

Im

Lost at what your saying.
The two headlight wires are one positive one negative. The wires cannot connect together. The safety switch has a positive and a negative and cannot be connected together. The field coil I believe is positive and negative.
You have to connect all the positive wires together on one side of the switch. The other side connect all the negative wires. If you unhook the safety switch wires altogether they are not required for the machine to run. They safety wires are when the power is on you have to engage the safety switch for the vacuum to power on.
You had to have it wired correctly when the coil spun backwards. The only thing different you had to do is rotate the coil and switch what carbon brush the coils connected to that's it. I don't know what the local vac shop vacuum guy said but without doing specific things he couldn't tell for a fact it was going slower.
The vacuum is 90 years old .
Hook it up how it was working and leave it. If it turns on its wired right. With positive and negative wires if it's wired wrong it won't power on period.
If it turns on and spins it's wired right. It's simple don't overthink it.

 

[bikerray]

Before you create Armature Flambe

If it's running slow it's either mechanical or electrical resistance

Have you thought about systematically finding the problem?

Does the motor spin free (meaning is something binding)?

Have you tried connecting just the motor (without the safety switch, light etc.)?

If the motor is OK then the problem is elsewhere in the electrical system.

Did you wire the motor in series with the light?

Is the problem in the safety switch?

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

All wiring to the foot switch and carbon brush holders was wired up correctly by me as recent as yesterday, before I took it apart again and the vacuum did turn on with the headlight, however the motor ran very slow and I even noticed a burning electrical smell, when I tested it for 5 seconds. Everything was wired up correctly but still the motor ran very slow. It was not like this and the vacuum ran much faster when I first got it, before I took it apart for polishing. I think the cause the whole time is either the field or armature has gotten shot. If the field has gotten shot and has bad windings in it, it should be replaced immediately, fortunately I do have a spare field for a 2C. Do you think the reason for this could likely be a field with shot windings or is it the armature? If it's the field, I will replace it.
Thanks From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

Everything is in right, the armature and fan does spin freely when the vacuum is off, but when I turn it on, the vacuum runs very slow. I think it could be an electrical issue, either with the safety switch or the field or armature is shot, has bad windings. What do you think the issue is with the running of my Kirby 2C motor?
From Liam