Kenmore 4.1 Powermate Canister- Motor Problem!

[jaker15]

Hey all! I picked up a fairly decent Kenmore 4.1 canister from the thrift outlet the other day, and I am pretty happy with it. I spent a couple hours yesterday cleaning it all out, and I got new bags for it. It works great! The motor ran well on both low and high speeds, but today, when I had it running on high speed to clean the carpet, I noticed that the motor started to slow down dramatically, and I heard a crackling noise inside the motor housing. I could see sparks from under the power switch, so I shut it off as quick as I could. I turned it back onto low speed, and it ran just fine.


 


What the heck is going on with the motor? Are the carbon brushes worn down to stubs? I'd like to get this Kenmore working properly again! Please help!!! I'll post some pictures tomorrow. Thanks so much!

 

[bnsd60m9200]

check the carbons. seems like a carbon seating stick may need to be in your future

 

[kirbylux77]

Will, you may be right. But I suspect the motor may be dying on this one. If this Kenmore has the 2 speed, 4 wire Ametek motor, then it's entirely possible that the motor is burning out it's high speed. It's VERY common to see in the older 2 speed Kenmore's, since most people use high speed most times, so that goes first & then they are stuck with only low speed unless they replace the motor.

Rob

 

[jaker15]

Thanks for the info, guys

Rob, do you mean that the actual high speed windings inside the motor are burning out?! That seems like somewhat of an unreliable design, if you ask me.... I might take it apart to check the motor out, if it's just the brushes, I might fix it, but if it's the motor itself, I don't think it's worth replacing. I only paid $5 for the thing, anyways.

 

[kirbylux77]

Jake, that's EXACTLY what I meant. When you take the cover off & you are looking at the motor, you will see 4 wires coming from the motor, 2 wires for low speed & 2 for high speed. There should be 1 set of wires on each side of the armature. Like I said above, most people will typically vacuum on high speed, so they will burn out the high speed on the motor first. The design is very reliable, & it takes a really long time to wear out the high speed....after all, think about it, this Kenmore is likely from the mid to late 1980's, so that's over 20 years it's taken to burn the high speed out. Other companies such as Filter Queen & Tristar have used 2 speed Ametek motors in the past too & they have also been reliable in those machines.

If you do decide to repair the vacuum & replace the motor, my local vac guy, told me once there is a way to make a normal Ametek double stage motor with 1 speed work in these Kenmore's when the original motor needs replacement. Perhaps you can find a donor motor from a parts machine & if you can look at how another Kenmore from the 1980's with the relay box is wired, you can figure out how to modify your machine & repair it.

Rob

 

[kirbylux77]

By the way, Jake, if you do decide it's not worth repairing it & you have no use for the parts, I might be willing to buy the hose, wands & PN off of you for another Kenmore I have right now. Let me know what you decide to do.

Rob

 

[jaker15]

Thanks a lot

I will let you know what I decide to do. Oh, one other thing, do you have any tips on how to tune up the power head? I cleaned it out and oiled the motor, but the bearings still screech when I turn it on.

 

[super-sweeper]

Try running the PN without the brush installed, then you'll know if the motor is to blame for that screeching! 

 

[kirbylux77]

Jake, if that brushroll is the original 2 beater bar brushroll with the metal endcaps, then it is likely hair built up around the endcaps & just needs to be cleaned. Those bearings never go bad! If that doesn't work, then it's the brushroll motor causing the issue.

Rob

 

[jaker15]

I cleaned

The brush roll and oiled the bearings. I know it's the motor, as it was pretty much locked up when I got it. I oiled the motor bearings (I think it's designed to be oiled) but it still complains a bit.


 


Is it safe to run the canister on LOW speed only until I can replace it? Or will I risk damaging the motor windings even further? 

 

[countvacula]

Is your 4.1 a square canister or one of the first generation with a swivel hose? All of the two speed Kenmores I know of used a five wire motor, not four. I am wondering if someone mickey moused your vac for lack of a good five wire motor?