is this a XXX pre-war model?
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dysonman1
Well-known member
Was that Lux a trade-in? I see you're in a vac shop taking the video. This is a late pre-war model XXX. It was made after they went to the flat filter instead of the basket type. Would really be nice to restore it.
caligula
Well-known member
Tom's right, pre-war XXX.
Those are two great videos. and now that I've gotten a good look at this machine, I can tell by the flat runners and dark color of paint and leatherette that it is a pre-war! However, the rug tool is not original to this XXX, as the rubber trim looks like a light gray, or perhaps the blue/gray that went with the LX. The other tools seem to be original, as I said, the rubber trim should match the cody of the machine. Rear cover (blower end) is certainly pre-war, but seems to have been altered. As Tom said, the filter is newer.
Since I don't have audio on my computer, I didn't get to hear it run, or your comments, but I did get to see it.
You need to complete the look by getting the Companion, correct cord, and correct hose. Hoses for the early Electrolux's are rare as hens teeth, but out there. With my LX, the hose is in fair condition, so I use it for show, and clean with the hose my buddy Steve, sent me.
As I said before, you have a great find, enjoy it.
Alex Taber.
Those are two great videos. and now that I've gotten a good look at this machine, I can tell by the flat runners and dark color of paint and leatherette that it is a pre-war! However, the rug tool is not original to this XXX, as the rubber trim looks like a light gray, or perhaps the blue/gray that went with the LX. The other tools seem to be original, as I said, the rubber trim should match the cody of the machine. Rear cover (blower end) is certainly pre-war, but seems to have been altered. As Tom said, the filter is newer.
Since I don't have audio on my computer, I didn't get to hear it run, or your comments, but I did get to see it.
You need to complete the look by getting the Companion, correct cord, and correct hose. Hoses for the early Electrolux's are rare as hens teeth, but out there. With my LX, the hose is in fair condition, so I use it for show, and clean with the hose my buddy Steve, sent me.
As I said before, you have a great find, enjoy it.
Alex Taber.
Im goung to be different...
I think its a VERY early post war, it still has the aluminum side pieces, darl leatherette, but the rear is clearly stamped chromed steel,although it does have the old round logo, the front cover is clearly the old style as are the runners, all right Charles Lester and Jimmy Martin, what do you all say????It also has the old style exhaust louvers, I think this style was made until about 48 as were the flat runners.im going to say its a 46, but who really knows..
I think its a VERY early post war, it still has the aluminum side pieces, darl leatherette, but the rear is clearly stamped chromed steel,although it does have the old round logo, the front cover is clearly the old style as are the runners, all right Charles Lester and Jimmy Martin, what do you all say????It also has the old style exhaust louvers, I think this style was made until about 48 as were the flat runners.im going to say its a 46, but who really knows..
caligula
Well-known member
Electrolux XXX.
Hi Hans, what I'm wondering is if it could be a pre-war XXX that was altered over the years? Most people are not interested in the historical value, and may have changed parts here and there. Certainly, I can't say for sure, but it could have been altered.
Just an idea,
Alex Taber.
Hi Hans, what I'm wondering is if it could be a pre-war XXX that was altered over the years? Most people are not interested in the historical value, and may have changed parts here and there. Certainly, I can't say for sure, but it could have been altered.
Just an idea,
Alex Taber.
Thanks for the lesson
I have worked on many of the Model XXXs with my Dad and brother but didn't think about how they changed thru the years. I guess that was because I was young lad of 9 learning how they worked and how to repair I didn't worry much on history and change . I did learn about the motor seal on the Model Xll and the crimped E. If the E was missing you knew it had been worked on. My Model Xll has never been worked on.
I have worked on many of the Model XXXs with my Dad and brother but didn't think about how they changed thru the years. I guess that was because I was young lad of 9 learning how they worked and how to repair I didn't worry much on history and change . I did learn about the motor seal on the Model Xll and the crimped E. If the E was missing you knew it had been worked on. My Model Xll has never been worked on.
Really..
There are many many variations, just like Hoover,they changed lots of details during the different years, I have a Model 84 Constellation,it is different than some of the others I have seen, it has a Round Hoover emblem on the top section above the switch, it does not have a chrome medallion around the top where the hose attaches, the carring handle says Constellation, I have seen others that did have a medallion around the top ??? so there are some differences in machines of the same model.
There are many many variations, just like Hoover,they changed lots of details during the different years, I have a Model 84 Constellation,it is different than some of the others I have seen, it has a Round Hoover emblem on the top section above the switch, it does not have a chrome medallion around the top where the hose attaches, the carring handle says Constellation, I have seen others that did have a medallion around the top ??? so there are some differences in machines of the same model.
dysonman1
Well-known member
They are called...
"Revisions". The Simplicity Synergy has had 9 of them during its run.
When the model 30 was launched in '37, all the parts (including side rails) were made of aluminum and buffed by machine, as were the attachments. Even the switch cover was buffed aluminum.
The very first year of production, there were three slits above the exhaust door, that let air out. By the second year, the first revision had taken place with the elimination of these vent slits.
By 1940, materials were getting harder and harder to come by. The third revision involved a lot. The flat filter was now used. The motor had the most revisions. In 1940, the motor mount was bakelite, as were the carbon brush holders and bearing bridge. The aluminum back was changed to steel as was the front cover, and side rails. I gave a perfect example of this model to Reggie Ridlin a few years back. In 1941, the dusting brush and upholstery tool and rug and floor tools were made of bakelite. Production ceased early in 1942.
Back from the war, and the cleaner now had round runners and a saloon door exhaust port. This was the forth revision. The attachments were back to aluminum again and the cord winder, companion, and other special tools were launched in 1948.
The final revision was in 1954. The color of the top cover now matched the model LX. The front door and motor cover were painted blue to match the LX (and soon, the LX1). And the attachments were the same material they would use for the model AE and E's attachments, with the exception of the bare floor tool.
"Revisions". The Simplicity Synergy has had 9 of them during its run.
When the model 30 was launched in '37, all the parts (including side rails) were made of aluminum and buffed by machine, as were the attachments. Even the switch cover was buffed aluminum.
The very first year of production, there were three slits above the exhaust door, that let air out. By the second year, the first revision had taken place with the elimination of these vent slits.
By 1940, materials were getting harder and harder to come by. The third revision involved a lot. The flat filter was now used. The motor had the most revisions. In 1940, the motor mount was bakelite, as were the carbon brush holders and bearing bridge. The aluminum back was changed to steel as was the front cover, and side rails. I gave a perfect example of this model to Reggie Ridlin a few years back. In 1941, the dusting brush and upholstery tool and rug and floor tools were made of bakelite. Production ceased early in 1942.
Back from the war, and the cleaner now had round runners and a saloon door exhaust port. This was the forth revision. The attachments were back to aluminum again and the cord winder, companion, and other special tools were launched in 1948.
The final revision was in 1954. The color of the top cover now matched the model LX. The front door and motor cover were painted blue to match the LX (and soon, the LX1). And the attachments were the same material they would use for the model AE and E's attachments, with the exception of the bare floor tool.
This is what...
Collecting is ALL ABOUT, LEARNING, see Tom told me some things I had been misinformed on,this is what we all need to realize, if we listen we can all find out new information, I love it!!what I would love to see is this kind of information printed up, it is invaluable to all of us, but especially to the younger collectors who have never been exposed to real vintage machines.
Collecting is ALL ABOUT, LEARNING, see Tom told me some things I had been misinformed on,this is what we all need to realize, if we listen we can all find out new information, I love it!!what I would love to see is this kind of information printed up, it is invaluable to all of us, but especially to the younger collectors who have never been exposed to real vintage machines.
dysonman1
Well-known member
One thing I forgot to mention. Pre-war model 30's have less suction than post-war models. The motor started out at 475 watts. All post-war machines have 535 watt motors. All pre-war model 30's have rubber strips on the attaching lugs for the front cover. Post-war models do not have these rubber 'cushions'.
caligula
Well-known member
Thank's Tom.
While I have several books written by Electrolux on their so-called history, such as "Electrolux the first 40 years, 1924 - 1964,"these books talk about corporate stuff. I shared some of that when I did the chapters on "the war years, but they tell very little of the actual machines. As I've said often, I get my facts from books, and word of mouth, if that info is wrong, I have no way of knowing that. As always, you present the facts that the rest of us are looking for. Thanks again for sharing this.
Alex Taber.
While I have several books written by Electrolux on their so-called history, such as "Electrolux the first 40 years, 1924 - 1964,"these books talk about corporate stuff. I shared some of that when I did the chapters on "the war years, but they tell very little of the actual machines. As I've said often, I get my facts from books, and word of mouth, if that info is wrong, I have no way of knowing that. As always, you present the facts that the rest of us are looking for. Thanks again for sharing this.
Alex Taber.
dysonman1
Well-known member
You're welcome Alex.
I guess one advantage I have in this, is the fact that I actually worked on and repaired these machines for customers. You have to remember that, even by the time I was 14 (1976), model 30's and 60's were still being sold, in high volume, in catalogs like Spiegel's Catalogs. Even the Woolworth's in St. Louis carried rebuilt model XXX's. All rebuilt by Metropolitan Vacuum in New York. They were everywhere.
I also was buying the trade in vacs from the Rainbow dealer. Every few months he'd call me and bring by a car load. I remember very well sitting in my basement, on my workbench, and noticing the differences.
The first time, I was actually FORCED to take notice. I was working on a pre-war XXX, trying to remove the motor. But it was a 1940/1941 model with the bakelite motor ring and bearing bridge. I cracked the motor ring taking it out, and I was screwed. Of course, I waited until I got another XXX to remove a motor from. That's when I really started noticing the differences and making mental notes.
The fans changed, for example, when the Automatic F and the Special models were launched. Same motor watts, but more airflow and suction since the newly designed fans could spin faster.
I spent a lot of time working on motors, and that's what lead me to understanding where exactly and what the "revisions" were - since many components were not interchangeable - yet were only 'slightly' different in size and shape.
As a teenager, working on vacs in my basement, I had the advantage of an almost unlimited supply, very cheap. I bought the traded in vacs for $1 each from the Rainbow dealer. But these were the machines he'd already 'cherry picked'. The newest machines (like Celebrity II's and Dial A Matics) he'd already sold for a lot more than $1 to a vac shop. I got the Filter Queen 200's, the Modern Hygienes, the Jet 99's, the Rexair B and C's, the Lux 30's and 60's. Only an occasional Kirby, and a very rare Air-Way. The Rainbow dealer said he couldn't pry an Air-Way from an owners hands, because he couldn't get an Air-Way to blow dust during the demonstration.
I guess one advantage I have in this, is the fact that I actually worked on and repaired these machines for customers. You have to remember that, even by the time I was 14 (1976), model 30's and 60's were still being sold, in high volume, in catalogs like Spiegel's Catalogs. Even the Woolworth's in St. Louis carried rebuilt model XXX's. All rebuilt by Metropolitan Vacuum in New York. They were everywhere.
I also was buying the trade in vacs from the Rainbow dealer. Every few months he'd call me and bring by a car load. I remember very well sitting in my basement, on my workbench, and noticing the differences.
The first time, I was actually FORCED to take notice. I was working on a pre-war XXX, trying to remove the motor. But it was a 1940/1941 model with the bakelite motor ring and bearing bridge. I cracked the motor ring taking it out, and I was screwed. Of course, I waited until I got another XXX to remove a motor from. That's when I really started noticing the differences and making mental notes.
The fans changed, for example, when the Automatic F and the Special models were launched. Same motor watts, but more airflow and suction since the newly designed fans could spin faster.
I spent a lot of time working on motors, and that's what lead me to understanding where exactly and what the "revisions" were - since many components were not interchangeable - yet were only 'slightly' different in size and shape.
As a teenager, working on vacs in my basement, I had the advantage of an almost unlimited supply, very cheap. I bought the traded in vacs for $1 each from the Rainbow dealer. But these were the machines he'd already 'cherry picked'. The newest machines (like Celebrity II's and Dial A Matics) he'd already sold for a lot more than $1 to a vac shop. I got the Filter Queen 200's, the Modern Hygienes, the Jet 99's, the Rexair B and C's, the Lux 30's and 60's. Only an occasional Kirby, and a very rare Air-Way. The Rainbow dealer said he couldn't pry an Air-Way from an owners hands, because he couldn't get an Air-Way to blow dust during the demonstration.
caligula
Well-known member
Looks like hard work paid off for both of us.
You were blessed with learning repair, I was blessed with a great memory, and love of history. Repairing vacuum cleaners was not fun for me, but research was! The need to know who made it, why and where was of great importance, especially the non electrics. Somehow these early machines just came to me. But it was the strong desire to teach others that guided my life. And through the V.C.C.C. I've done that. Now through your museum you continue what John Lucia and I started.
Due to living in remote parts of PA. since July of 09, I've had no internet access to utill last September, when a hub finally opened up, and I was able to reconnect to Vacuumland.
By the way, Hans just told me that you lost your partner David. I know how rough that is, I miss my Charles every day. My thoughts and prayers are with you, if you need a shoulder, I'm here. My email is [email protected].
Please keep in touch.
Bob Alex.
You were blessed with learning repair, I was blessed with a great memory, and love of history. Repairing vacuum cleaners was not fun for me, but research was! The need to know who made it, why and where was of great importance, especially the non electrics. Somehow these early machines just came to me. But it was the strong desire to teach others that guided my life. And through the V.C.C.C. I've done that. Now through your museum you continue what John Lucia and I started.
Due to living in remote parts of PA. since July of 09, I've had no internet access to utill last September, when a hub finally opened up, and I was able to reconnect to Vacuumland.
By the way, Hans just told me that you lost your partner David. I know how rough that is, I miss my Charles every day. My thoughts and prayers are with you, if you need a shoulder, I'm here. My email is [email protected].
Please keep in touch.
Bob Alex.
dysonman1
Well-known member
Hi Alex:
David passed almost two years ago. We were together for 29 years. Austin Wilder died 8 days before David, then David passed, then David's mother passed two months later. I met my Dan a little more than a year ago - and we've been together ever since. I'm getting married in Iowa in September. Here's Dan with his 'baby' - his Miele Salsa S7 upright that I got for him. It's the only vacuum he uses, and since he cleans the house, it sure gets a workout. When I met him, he had a bagless Dirt Devil. So obviously, the Miele impressed him. To Dan, the Miele is what the Kitchen-Aid is to me. Indispensable!
David passed almost two years ago. We were together for 29 years. Austin Wilder died 8 days before David, then David passed, then David's mother passed two months later. I met my Dan a little more than a year ago - and we've been together ever since. I'm getting married in Iowa in September. Here's Dan with his 'baby' - his Miele Salsa S7 upright that I got for him. It's the only vacuum he uses, and since he cleans the house, it sure gets a workout. When I met him, he had a bagless Dirt Devil. So obviously, the Miele impressed him. To Dan, the Miele is what the Kitchen-Aid is to me. Indispensable!
caligula
Well-known member
Hi Tom. Thanks for the info.
I have fond memories of David, and am glad you both had a long partnership. I'm also glad to know there is sonebody in your life, that helps a great deal. That's not the case with me. After I lost Charles in 06, I went into a deep depression and it was several years before I stopped hurting. I had a lot of gay friends to be there, but even now, I'm still not ready for a relationship. What I have now is a strong friendship with the guy I live with, but it's certainly not what Charles and I had.
I'm sorry that it wasn't until two weeks before he died that Charles got to meet you, Clay, Stan and the rest of the club, but at least you got to meet him. He was in awe of the Fox theater, and even though he was in a lot of pain, he had to do the full tour.
My buddy and I are thinking 'road trip' a drive from PA. to San Francisco, and the St. Louis arch is on the list, so is a trip to your museum.
I'm so glad you are back in my life. Here's a picture of me with my dog Felecia on my buddy's 100 acre farm.
Bob Taber.
I have fond memories of David, and am glad you both had a long partnership. I'm also glad to know there is sonebody in your life, that helps a great deal. That's not the case with me. After I lost Charles in 06, I went into a deep depression and it was several years before I stopped hurting. I had a lot of gay friends to be there, but even now, I'm still not ready for a relationship. What I have now is a strong friendship with the guy I live with, but it's certainly not what Charles and I had.
I'm sorry that it wasn't until two weeks before he died that Charles got to meet you, Clay, Stan and the rest of the club, but at least you got to meet him. He was in awe of the Fox theater, and even though he was in a lot of pain, he had to do the full tour.
My buddy and I are thinking 'road trip' a drive from PA. to San Francisco, and the St. Louis arch is on the list, so is a trip to your museum.
I'm so glad you are back in my life. Here's a picture of me with my dog Felecia on my buddy's 100 acre farm.
Bob Taber.
caligula
Well-known member
Hi Tom, Remember this?
For those who were not with us in the early days of the V.C.C.C., here's a picture of the club museum. I took this picture right after the gathering in 93. It was at that meeting that I got to meet Tom, Charles Richard Lester, and a lot of other great guys. As I've mentioned before, Tom drove up with a van loaded with machines, and parts to give away. Interestingly enough, that was the last meeting at my house in Naperville, Illinois, the following year the club went back to it's birthplace, The Hoover Company, and the Hoover Historical Center. In 95, we went to Allentown, PA. to see the barn where Vac-Hunter, Bob Kautzman restores vintage machines.
That red Electrolux box is for the model LX. Tom not only gave me the box, but a complete machine. Tom, I still have that box, it's in the storage unit in Indiana.
Bob Alex Taber.
For those who were not with us in the early days of the V.C.C.C., here's a picture of the club museum. I took this picture right after the gathering in 93. It was at that meeting that I got to meet Tom, Charles Richard Lester, and a lot of other great guys. As I've mentioned before, Tom drove up with a van loaded with machines, and parts to give away. Interestingly enough, that was the last meeting at my house in Naperville, Illinois, the following year the club went back to it's birthplace, The Hoover Company, and the Hoover Historical Center. In 95, we went to Allentown, PA. to see the barn where Vac-Hunter, Bob Kautzman restores vintage machines.
That red Electrolux box is for the model LX. Tom not only gave me the box, but a complete machine. Tom, I still have that box, it's in the storage unit in Indiana.
Bob Alex Taber.
dysonman1
Well-known member
Hey Alex:
You have always had a beautiful collection. I remember that very first convention (meeting) of the VCCC that I attended at your home. There were 12 of us, I believe. Having just come from being a Rainbow salesman at the time, I was under the impression that all the vintage cleaners were just 'dust belchers'. How wrong I was. Well, they are dust belchers (with the exception of Air-Way) but I was taught how glorious they were, when put into their perspective. I learned so much from you, David Watters, Clay Floyd, Billy Lipmann, Roger Proehl, and Mike Pupek.
Twenty years has gone by since that first meeting. In that time I've owned my own vacuum business, designed an Air-Way, dealt with my best friend's suicide, had a museum built to house my collection, been on TV a lot of times, helped the engineers design some new models of vacuums, been a widow, and now am engaged to be married. I never stop learning though.
Norm Brown recently visited with me at the Convention at the Vacuum Museum a few weeks ago. He brought me a huge bag of printed material (instructions, newspaper articles, etc.). Like you, I'm always learning.
And I'm always happy to share what I've learned with the public. Within the last three business days, people have given the Museum a bunch of vacuums. Can't wait to restore them, and share them with fellow vacuum enthusiasts. Many young people visit the museum and I always like to send them off with a new vacuum for their collection. Something vintage, of course, so they can learn to appreciate the vintage machines for the works of industrial art they truly are.
Below is a photo of the machines we've been given within the last three days. Recognize any of these models? I'm sure you know them all. Glad we're all friends again and this forum is a great place for all of us to share knowledge.
You have always had a beautiful collection. I remember that very first convention (meeting) of the VCCC that I attended at your home. There were 12 of us, I believe. Having just come from being a Rainbow salesman at the time, I was under the impression that all the vintage cleaners were just 'dust belchers'. How wrong I was. Well, they are dust belchers (with the exception of Air-Way) but I was taught how glorious they were, when put into their perspective. I learned so much from you, David Watters, Clay Floyd, Billy Lipmann, Roger Proehl, and Mike Pupek.
Twenty years has gone by since that first meeting. In that time I've owned my own vacuum business, designed an Air-Way, dealt with my best friend's suicide, had a museum built to house my collection, been on TV a lot of times, helped the engineers design some new models of vacuums, been a widow, and now am engaged to be married. I never stop learning though.
Norm Brown recently visited with me at the Convention at the Vacuum Museum a few weeks ago. He brought me a huge bag of printed material (instructions, newspaper articles, etc.). Like you, I'm always learning.
And I'm always happy to share what I've learned with the public. Within the last three business days, people have given the Museum a bunch of vacuums. Can't wait to restore them, and share them with fellow vacuum enthusiasts. Many young people visit the museum and I always like to send them off with a new vacuum for their collection. Something vintage, of course, so they can learn to appreciate the vintage machines for the works of industrial art they truly are.
Below is a photo of the machines we've been given within the last three days. Recognize any of these models? I'm sure you know them all. Glad we're all friends again and this forum is a great place for all of us to share knowledge.
caligula
Well-known member
Hi Tom.
I'm so glad I was able to share in providing you with knowledge of the vacuum cleaner. Like so many others, you once thought like a salesman, failing to recognize the historic value of older machines. In the early days, you were concerned with the power of the motor, and what have you. With time, you began to see the artistic side, beauty of design, and so on. Now, like me, you are interested in the history, and through the museum, can educate others. I think the breakthrough was in the hospitality suite in that hotel in North Canton, when we all toured Hoover. That first cleaning contest was awesome. We've all come a long way since those early days. I simply got the ball rolling, then with the help of John Lucia, formed a club so we could share our knowledge, you took it from there, and really put the V.C.C.C. on the map.
You mentioned a number of guys in the early club, I know about Dave Watters, but not the others, any idea where they are?
With deep respect and friendship,
Bob Alex Taber.
I'm so glad I was able to share in providing you with knowledge of the vacuum cleaner. Like so many others, you once thought like a salesman, failing to recognize the historic value of older machines. In the early days, you were concerned with the power of the motor, and what have you. With time, you began to see the artistic side, beauty of design, and so on. Now, like me, you are interested in the history, and through the museum, can educate others. I think the breakthrough was in the hospitality suite in that hotel in North Canton, when we all toured Hoover. That first cleaning contest was awesome. We've all come a long way since those early days. I simply got the ball rolling, then with the help of John Lucia, formed a club so we could share our knowledge, you took it from there, and really put the V.C.C.C. on the map.
You mentioned a number of guys in the early club, I know about Dave Watters, but not the others, any idea where they are?
With deep respect and friendship,
Bob Alex Taber.
